[vrln]

The clicking will get less loud with time, but I think some clicking will stay for good. It´s just something that comes with all relay-based discrete volume control mechanisms. Personally I tend to think of it as a reminder that it´s not a cheap volume pot No channel imbalance ever...

 

[IPodPJ]

Quote:

The clicking will get less loud with time, but I think some clicking will stay for good. It´s just something that comes with all relay-based discrete volume control mechanisms. Personally I tend to think of it as a reminder that it´s not a cheap volume pot No channel imbalance ever...

 
I don't ever remember hearing any clicking through my headphones when I adjusted the volume when I had the Phoenix.
 
 

 

[ford2]

Quote:

The clicking will get less loud with time, but I think some clicking will stay for good. It´s just something that comes with all relay-based discrete volume control mechanisms. Personally I tend to think of it as a reminder that it´s not a cheap volume pot No channel imbalance ever...

A good pot will not have an imbalance to note.
 
Give me a pot over a clicking any day,would end up driving me up the wall.
 

 

[SP Wild]

99 steps of perfectly tracking steps.  Name me another commercial product that can make such a boast...love that remote too.  Clicking...I ain't heard nothin.
 

 

[mtntrance]

The clicking is barely discernable when it does occur.  I was just curious if anyone else had ever noticed anything.  I will take the Phoenix pot over the one in my C-2.
 
The remote rocks, in fact its a thing of beauty to hold in your hand and operate.
 
Just got my NFB-8 yesterday.  I have never been happier with audio gear than that which I have received from audio gd though the LCD-2 is right up there in terms of satisfaction. 

 

[Pricklely Peete]

 
Quote:

A good pot will not have an imbalance to note.
 
Give me a pot over a clicking any day,would end up driving me up the wall.
 

Pots degrade over use and time and they do have imbalance issues (compared to the relay type) unless you've taken great pains to match your stepped attenuators resistor pairs within .1 % or less...that being said it's a mechanical device that will wear out it's contacts or the resistive material under the wiper blades eventually (although such degradation happens slowly over a long period of time it effects SQ of the unit overall)...the relay based unit will not wear out nor will it degrade which is why it's such a good choice and I wish more manufacturers would use this system. The pots used in the Phoenix for tracking the vol up or down and changing the source are another story (well documented in this thread) but they can be replaced without costing an arm and a leg. The only way to get the vol out of the signal path is to do it the way Kingwa has or go with a very expensive stepped unit in a shunt configuration.
 
Peete.

 

[ford2]

 
Quote:

 


Pots degrade over use and time and they do have imbalance issues (compared to the relay type) unless you've taken great pains to match your stepped attenuators resistor pairs within .1 % or less...that being said it's a mechanical device that will wear out it's contacts or the resistive material under the wiper blades eventually (although such degradation happens slowly over a long period of time it effects SQ of the unit overall)...the relay based unit will not wear out nor will it degrade which is why it's such a good choice and I wish more manufacturers would use this system. The pots used in the Phoenix for tracking the vol up or down and changing the source are another story (well documented in this thread) but they can be replaced without costing an arm and a leg. The only way to get the vol out of the signal path is to do it the way Kingwa has or go with a very expensive stepped unit in a shunt configuration.
 
Peete.

 
 
And what stops the relay contacts from degrading with time and introducing noise and imbalance.
 
I have amps and so do many others that are over 20/30 years old yet show no signs of  the problems you mentioned.
 
The ONLY way to stop any degradation is for SW control.

 

[gogogasgas]

I keep getting confused on this one: ACSS = CAST, right? So if the following statement by iPodPJ is true:

There will be no more old-style ACSS connectors.  All new models will be outfit with 4-pin XLR jacks, as I understand it.  Or at the very least, all the Master products and the RE7.1 will have them.

Then, I shouldn't waste my money getting a LEMO CAST CONNECTOR and sending to China for my special Phoenix, right?
 

I've been tossing up the idea of sacrificing one set of XLR inputs to make them the ACSS inputs instead.  I could, in this case, either swap them with 4-pin XLRs and re-wire, or use 3-pin XLRs as 4 pins aren't necessary and it would allow me to use existing cables.  The problem would be drilling larger holes in the back plate of my Ref 1 if I wanted to do the same with it.

 
So, like Kingwa will be using now, you are going use ONE four-pin (three-pin?) XLR socket to replace the ACSS/CAST socket on your unit?

have you not been to the site in a while? He's got a whole new section for his New Master series of products that are coming out soon, http://www.audio-gd.com/En%20Master.htm , the preamp is a couple hundred cheaper than the C3FV though, but the Master 2 Power amp is like 800 hundred dollars more than the C1 master

 
The link on the AUDIO GD site mentioned above is what prompted me to speculate that there may be a updated/super version of the Phoenix around the corner...

 

[mtntrance]

I don't know about a super version of the Phoenix coming out but I was pleasantly surprised when my new Phoenix came with a switch on the back to turn off the display.  I am not sure what the sonic advantage of XLR is over old style CAST.  The XLRs certainly are easier to use but how often to you break down and reset up your rig?

 

[gogogasgas]

Mtntrance - I don't have a Audio GD 'rig' yet. However, I am trying to work out if Audio GD has replaced the CAST connectors with XLRs on the models he NOW makes BEFORE I order a LEMO cast connector. Do you or anyone else know?
(that's also good news about the switch at the back to turn off the front lights)

 

[sokolov91]

Quote:

Then, I shouldn't waste my money getting a LEMO CAST CONNECTOR and sending to China for my special Phoenix, right?
 

 
I don' think it is ever advisable to spend money on fruitless things so even if they kept the connector style still doesn't seem like you come out ahead in any way. :/
 
 
 
As for the clicking my phoenix clicks every time I adjust the volume but I only ever hear it coming from the phoenix itself and not through my headphones.... it was much louder when I first had it but I don't think it will ever go away. My concerto did this and it got quieter but stayed.
 
For me it is a non issue and I enjoy not having a pot to fiddle with... to be fair I only ever had pots on my LD amps and then jumped to a concerto and then phoenix so I guess my bias is due to cheap pots but either way I like knowing it is perfectly matched and technically sonically superior.

 

[mtntrance]

Quote:

 
I don' think it is ever advisable to spend money on fruitless things so even if they kept the connector style still doesn't seem like you come out ahead in any way. :/
 
 
 
As for the clicking my phoenix clicks every time I adjust the volume but I only ever hear it coming from the phoenix itself and not through my headphones.... it was much louder when I first had it but I don't think it will ever go away. My concerto did this and it got quieter but stayed.
 
For me it is a non issue and I enjoy not having a pot to fiddle with... to be fair I only ever had pots on my LD amps and then jumped to a concerto and then phoenix so I guess my bias is due to cheap pots but either way I like knowing it is perfectly matched and technically sonically superior.

Two days later and I am not hearing any clicking through headphones when using the remote.

 

[Pricklely Peete]

 
Quote:

 

 
 
And what stops the relay contacts from degrading with time and introducing noise and imbalance.
 
I have amps and so do many others that are over 20/30 years old yet show no signs of  the problems you mentioned.
 
The ONLY way to stop any degradation is for SW control.

The contacts in heavy duty relays take a very long time to wear out....if they do at all. It's not a friction connection with relays...they are Magnetic IIRC (closed by a control voltage). It's a better way to roll IMO since the contact doesn't grind against another as it is swept. Those same swept motions degrade the resistive surface the wiper comes in contact with....as the wiper ages and the resistive materials ages the contact and consistency (of the resistive action) of the attenuation suffers. Anyway I'm sure you know all about that....I find it hard to believe that you haven't come across a bad pot yet....I've had to deal with lots of them (slider variety as well) over the years. Some CAIG contact cleaner helps cure the noise but it doesn't bring the pot/slider back to pristine working condition...only a pot swap for a new one (or better one) will do that.
 
Anyhow....the Phoenix volume is SW controlled but analog where it counts, sending impulses picked up by the encoder pots, processed by the SW / hardware package which send the interpretation of the encoder pot position to the respective pairs of mechanical relays, the best of both worlds IMO. Nothing is perfect for this job, just varying levels of  negative impact on the signal. The less impact the better the solution selected for the job, is, obviously.
 
A pure digital vol control messes with the signal integrity itself and is in itself a (far) less than perfect solution...even worse than using a HQ pot (like the ALPS RK27). IMO of course.
 
Peete.

 

[Pricklely Peete]

 
Quote:

I don't know about a super version of the Phoenix coming out but I was pleasantly surprised when my new Phoenix came with a switch on the back to turn off the display.  I am not sure what the sonic advantage of XLR is over old style CAST.  The XLRs certainly are easier to use but how often to you break down and reset up your rig?

I've broken my system down a numbers of times now (for meets and cottage use and during multiple DIY upgrade sessions for all three units, CD7/RE1/Phoenix) and have yet to have the stock ACSS connectors fail (knock wood). If you are careful the older ACSS jacks/connectors seem to function well but I like the idea of a sturdier jack and connector based upon the standard Neutrik type (the 4 pin to reduce confusion and any possible user connection error).
 
I guess if the old ACSS jacks break on me in the future then I'll do the swap to Neutrik XLR's. I figure I've likely taken apart the system at least 10-15 times since 2009 without failure yet. I am very careful with all connections as a rule (no matter what gear it is or cable I'm using) FWIW.
 
Peete.

 

[gogogasgas]

Thanks, Peete for your take on the CAST connector. According to Audio GD, the connector is staying the same on the Phoenix for the time being.
 
That 'clicking' issue has been dealt with a number of times in this thread. If my Phoenix ever suffers from 'click-itis', I know where to look...