[satwilson]

Quote:

I have personally not liked either of my more recent 600 ohm Beyers (T1 and DT880/600) with the NFB-12. Soundstage and treble extension have suffered in both cases. Admittedly, I do have the early production NFB-12 without user-adjustable filters, so a newer 12 or 12.1 with the filter settings may prove to be a better pairing.
 

To answer Nick T's question specifically about "ample power", the answer is yes. As regards soundstage and treble extension the NFB12 has oftentimes been described as "warm sounding" which implies to me somewhat rolled off on the highend, so some Beyer fans will like that and others like yourself "just leave that Beyer sparkle alone" won't. I respect that, personal opinion. Sooundstage has been described as average, it is what it is, adequate for my needs. As KILLKLI said, overall settings(sample rate,etc) come into play here. I have the newer version with adjustable filters, use Winamp, set my W7 laptop to upsample output to 96/24, then set the NFB12  to 96/24 soft knee. With either of my phones, modded T50RP or Koss ESP950's the highs sound good to me. I have never heard Beyers, so your personal opinions and needs may differ.
 
 

 

[Olias of Sunhillow]

Oh, I agree... this unit is very signal-dependent. I use Audirvana Plus on a MacBook pro to upsample to 24/96 and connect via optical -- this arrangement seems to produce the best results.
 
I think it sounds quite good with both my Beyer T70p (32 ohm) and my Grado RS-1, each of which can benefit from the bit of warmth and slight treble roll-off that the NFB-12 provides. It also pairs reasonably well with my LA 2000 Lite.

 

[ac500]

I have the old NFB12 without filter switching, and I noticed this:
 
http://supercurio.project-voodoo.org/audio/audio-gd/RMAA/audio-gd-NFB-12-samplerates.htm
 
The NFB12 seriously rolls off treble according to this. I just switched to 192/24 which apparently avoids the treble being so laid back, and I'm pretty sure my HD650 sounds more detailed and has the treble more to my liking (originally I found myself adding a treble boost). Edit: If anything it's very subtle. Not as nearly a big a difference as when I went from 48/24 to 96/24 (which makes sense according to the graph, too).
 
I know a few decibels may not seem like a lot up near 20khz, but I definitely confirmed by ear that my NFB12 was more laid back versus my MacBook Air sound output, at least.
 
Edit: My MacBook Air still sounds brighter :/

 

[Brooko]

Not surprised.  I found (when playing with the filters) that all the 192/24 filters (and AFAIK that's what the filter was set to as default) sound quite warm and laid back - at the cost of perceived detail.
 
With the switchable filters, the Minimum Phase Softknee (still warm but better detail) and the Minimum Phase Apodising (less warmth and much better detail) both increased resolution quite a bit.
 
It pairs really well with the HD600 - but I can only imagine how unresolving it would be with the HD650.  Not a good match without the ability to switch filters I'd be guessing.

 

[phandrew]

The best oversampling i found was 2x Soft knee. It was set as 2x brickwall when i got it but it was too harsh sounding. Soft knee was more forgiving and smoother.

 

[Brooko]

Quote:

The best oversampling i found was 2x Soft knee. It was set as 2x brickwall when i got it but it was too harsh sounding. Soft knee was more forgiving and smoother.

Depends on your cans and preferences I guess.  I personally found all of the 2x filters too warm and lush.
 

 

[uzi]

Man, no love for the Brickwall filters around here.  I just spent the last two nights playing with all of the 8x and 4x oversampling settings and I've settled in on the "4X oversampling, linear phase 'brickwall' filter" setting for listening with my HD650.
 
The "8X oversampling, Minimum phase apodising filter" was really detailed as others have mentioned, but it felt like there was an over-emphasis on the higher frequencies.  I loved it for things like Nirvana's "Nevermind" and Queens of the Stone Age's "Songs for the Deaf" where there's a drum emphasis (hmm... maybe it's a Dave Grohl thing), but not so much for Stevie Wonder's "Original Musiquarium I", where I wanted things to be more funky and bassy.  Listening to various points in my collection (like "Something" and "Because" by The Beatles, as captouch had brought those up), it felt like the abundance of detail was kinda fatiguing and the warmth was gone.
 
While most of the stuff I'm listening to are ripped CDs and online streaming, I am playing around with some 24-bit/96kHz material, so I figured to play with the 4X settings. The 4X brickwall one seemed to best maintain the warmth and overall sound signature I want out of the HD650 and I feel like it delivers a slightly more lively sound than its 2X counterpart.

 

[captouch]

 
Quote:

Man, no love for the Brickwall filters around here.  I just spent the last two nights playing with all of the 8x and 4x oversampling settings and I've settled in on the "4X oversampling, linear phase 'brickwall' filter" setting for listening with my HD650.
 
The "8X oversampling, Minimum phase apodising filter" was really detailed as others have mentioned, but it felt like there was an over-emphasis on the higher frequencies.  I loved it for things like Nirvana's "Nevermind" and Queens of the Stone Age's "Songs for the Deaf" where there's a drum emphasis (hmm... maybe it's a Dave Grohl thing), but not so much for Stevie Wonder's "Original Musiquarium I", where I wanted things to be more funky and bassy.  Listening to various points in my collection (like "Something" and "Because" by The Beatles, as captouch had brought those up), it felt like the abundance of detail was kinda fatiguing and the warmth was gone.
 
While most of the stuff I'm listening to are ripped CDs and online streaming, I am playing around with some 24-bit/96kHz material, so I figured to play with the 4X settings. The 4X brickwall one seemed to best maintain the warmth and overall sound signature I want out of the HD650 and I feel like it delivers a slightly more lively sound than its 2X counterpart.

Just curious, you using NFB-12 as DAC only or amp as well?
 
 

 

[uzi]

Quote:

 

Just curious, you using NFB-12 as DAC only or amp as well?
 
 

 
Amp as well.  Again, the "4X oversampling, linear phase 'brickwall' filter" is nowhere near as detailed as the "8X oversampling, Minimum phase apodising filter", but it feels more warm and less fatiguing to listen to for me.  The latter felt too trebly to me.

 

[zzffnn]

It seems that older NFB12s indeed roll off treble,  based on my reading. I imagine an old NFB12 with WM8741 may not have treble roll off with Lcd-2s as well.
 
I like my Lcd-2 rev1 with Sparrow version B (AD1852) and hear no treble roll off.  Lcd-2 rev1 supposedly produce less treble than rev2 or Lcd3; some even said Lcd-2 revs1 sound like some HD650s though a little better. Maybe the reason why I like the combo is because the neutrality of Sparrow version B.
 
Quote:

I have the old NFB12 without filter switching, and I noticed this:
 
http://supercurio.project-voodoo.org/audio/audio-gd/RMAA/audio-gd-NFB-12-samplerates.htm
 
The NFB12 seriously rolls off treble according to this. I just switched to 192/24 which apparently avoids the treble being so laid back, and I'm pretty sure my HD650 sounds more detailed and has the treble more to my liking (originally I found myself adding a treble boost). Edit: If anything it's very subtle. Not as nearly a big a difference as when I went from 48/24 to 96/24 (which makes sense according to the graph, too).
 
I know a few decibels may not seem like a lot up near 20khz, but I definitely confirmed by ear that my NFB12 was more laid back versus my MacBook Air sound output, at least.
 
Edit: My MacBook Air still sounds brighter :/

 
 

 

[scannon18]

Does treble roll off help with sibilant headphones, or headphones that tend towards sibilance?  Does treble roll off improve soundstage?

 

[killkli]

 
Quote:

Does treble roll off help with sibilant headphones, or headphones that tend towards sibilance?  Does treble roll off improve soundstage?

Sibilance mostly came from 4k~6kHz frequency. 
The roll-off of NFB-12 starts from 12kHz.
 
 

 

[davidgotsa]

So are you guys saying that it isn't a good match with the hd650?

 

[captouch]

 
Quote:

So are you guys saying that it isn't a good match with the hd650?

It's really not very good based on my experience.  My Crack and Hifiman EF5 are both heads and shoulders better.  Saw a EF5 in FS section for $250 - worth considering as that's quite a bit off $399 or $499 retail (depends on version).
 
 

 

[killkli]

Quote:

Every gears before shipping we have multi-ply test to guarantee the fault unit less than 1% in some years use .
The USB 96K/24Bit playback ability is one of the test.
We have two way to check. One is playback the 96KHz waves show on the instruments.
The other is check the word clock through the frequency instrument.
 

I finally got my hand on one of Audio-GD's Digital interface.
Since they both used the same USB receiver chip, the result should be similar.
But it's not! At least not on my NFB-12:

NFB12's USB receiver, with the same driver, recorded by the same recorder. Both my RME's optical & Audio-GD's Digital Interface got 96kHz properly.
However, my NFB12's USB receiver got serious cut-off after 24kHz.
If it's driver or my foobar's setting error, it should be the same with Audio-GD's Digital Interface, but it's not.
So the problem would be something wrong from NFB12's USB receiver to DAC.