Audio-GD NFB-11.32 & NFB-11 (2014) (Delivery & Impression Thread)!!!

Feb 9, 2018 at 2:02 PM Post #2,896 of 3,093
Hm, it seems I wasted some time testing, by inventing my own non-existing filters.
(I had mixed up the jumper order)

For my own, and possibly other's reference, I created this cheat-sheet.
(NFB 11.28)


aPd94KD.png

Did you find that any of the filter settings sounded better to you than the default?

A couple months ago I tried changing mine from the default minimum phase / fast setting to linear phase / slow. I found that it made the amp sound a bit less lively, so I reverted back to the default after a day. Didn't try any of the other settings.
 
Feb 9, 2018 at 4:20 PM Post #2,897 of 3,093
To paint some picture about me and my motive for trying out the different filters, and the circumstances under which I am doing it:

I am using this DAC purely for enjoying music. Not for studio/recording purposes.
When I am getting 'serious' about listening, I put on my (reasonably priced) AKG headphones, else (or when my ears get too warm), I play over small Monitor Audio speakers supported by a REL subwoofer. (one of my best buys ever b.t.w.)
Perhaps also good to know: my ears are as old as me, which is not as young as I would wish them to be)

I was perfectly happy with my NFB 11.28 out-of-the-box, but of course I was curious about the available filters.
When googling on "linear vs. minimum phase filters", I found some very strong opinions that linear filters were the most 'correct' ones.
Being some sort of perfectionist (but slowly learning to let go of that), I thought, hey, that's for me.
Supporters of it (I believe recording professionals) explained that it is the only (current) filtering method that keeps the whole frequency spectrum aligned phase-wise.
Therefor it would be superior in preserving and presenting a good sounstage.
And it was said that the drawback of having more pre-ringing would be less important, and wouldn't be observable that much in real life. (it would drown in the rest of the musical content)

So I started trying to see (hear) if I could point out 'phase correctness' or 'pre-ringing'.
Now a big problem for me in this is that my musical taste is quite eclectic. I like classical (piano, cello, gregorian etc.), jazz (trio, big band, electrik), electronica (ambient, psy-trance, pop), and my library also contains a lot of less-then-perfect recordings from the early days of digital.

For some recordings I imagined I could pinpoint such differences, but for many others I couldn't. For some I thought I might prefer one filter, but for some others I slightly preferred another one.

I quickly realized that going down that path would take me weeks, or worse: would drive me crazy. So I quickly decided to find the filter that would make me enjoy the majority of such a library on an 'emotional', non-intellectual level.

I will not go into the details of what filter settings I tried with the different sorts of recordings.
That's because that would be too personal (ears/equipment/taste/lack of adequate words), and because the differences where very small, and to be honest I spend most of the time doubting my ears/brain/memory.

Cut to the chase:

Because my AKG headphones are already a bit analytical, after some comparison I set the jumpers for 'the warm sound' and decided to leave it at that in testing the filters.
(when listening over my speakers, I now have a subtle parametric eq active, else they would sound a bit too warm/muddy)

I then found that I preferred fast-roll-off against slow roll-off, because the latter seemed to take a little bit of liveliness/dynamics out of the music.

Then I had to choose between linear vs. minimal-phase.
While it was a difficult task to convince myself I could hear differences, I did get the impression that acoustical instruments (piano, violin, etc.) sounded a little bit more lifelike with minimal-phase compared to linear.
And generally, I got the impression that minimal-phase sounded a little bit more 'solid', and a tiny bit less 'nervous' then linear.

So I decided on 'warm sound', 'minimal phase', 'fast roll-off', and decided to stay a happy camper and not worry about bombs and jumpers anymore.
Any further adjustments will have to take place between my ears.

But to be perfectly honest, if somebody would randomly switch jumpers while I was asleep, I wouldn't be certain if I would ever know.
The basic design of this DAC seems to be so good, I wouldn't worry too much.
 
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Feb 9, 2018 at 6:30 PM Post #2,898 of 3,093
To paint some picture about me and my motive for trying out the different filters, and the circumstances under which I am doing it:

I am using this DAC purely for enjoying music. Not for studio/recording purposes.
When I am getting 'serious' about listening, I put on my (reasonably priced) AKG headphones, else (or when my ears get too warm), I play over small Monitor Audio speakers supported by a REL subwoofer. (one of my best buys ever b.t.w.)
Perhaps also good to know: my ears are as old as me, which is not as young as I would wish them to be)

I was perfectly happy with my NFB 11.28 out-of-the-box, but of course I was curious about the available filters.
When googling on "linear vs. minimum phase filters", I found some very strong opinions that linear filters were the most 'correct' ones.
Being some sort of perfectionist (but slowly learning to let go of that), I thought, hey, that's for me.
Supporters of it (I believe recording professionals) explained that it is the only (current) filtering method that keeps the whole frequency spectrum aligned phase-wise.
Therefor it would be superior in preserving and presenting a good sounstage.
And it was said that the drawback of having more pre-ringing would be less important, and wouldn't be observable that much in real life. (it would drown in the rest of the musical content)

So I started trying to see (hear) if I could point out 'phase correctness' or 'pre-ringing'.
Now a big problem for me in this is that my musical taste is quite eclectic. I like classical (piano, cello, gregorian etc.), jazz (trio, big band, electrik), electronica (ambient, psy-trance, pop), and my library also contains a lot of less-then-perfect recordings from the early days of digital.

For some recordings I imagined I could pinpoint such differences, but for many others I couldn't. For some I thought I might prefer one filter, but for some others I slightly preferred another one.

I quickly realized that going down that path would take me weeks, or worse: would drive me crazy. So I quickly decided to find the filter that would make me enjoy the majority of such a library on an 'emotional', non-intellectual level.

I will not go into the details of what filter settings I tried with the different sorts of recordings.
That's because that would be too personal (ears/equipment/taste/lack of adequate words), and because the differences where very small, and to be honest I spend most of the time doubting my ears/brain/memory.

Cut to the chase:

Because my AKG headphones are already a bit analytical, after some comparison I set the jumpers for 'the warm sound' and decided to leave it at that in testing the filters.
(when listening over my speakers, I now have a subtle parametric eq active, else they would sound a bit too warm/muddy)

I then found that I preferred slow-roll-off against fast roll-off, because the latter seemed to take a little bit of liveliness/dynamics out of the music.

Then I had to choose between linear vs. minimal-phase.
While it was a difficult task to convince myself I could hear differences, I did get the impression that acoustical instruments (piano, violin, etc.) sounded a little bit more lifelike with minimal-phase compared to linear.
And generally, I got the impression that minimal-phase sounded a little bit more 'solid', and a tiny bit less 'nervous' then linear.

So I decided on 'warm sound', 'minimal phase', 'slow roll-off', and decided to stay a happy camper and not worry about bombs and jumpers anymore.
Any further adjustments will have to take place between my ears.

But to be perfectly honest, if somebody would randomly switch jumpers while I was asleep, I wouldn't be certain if I would ever know.
The basic design of this DAC seems to be so good, I wouldn't worry too much.

Thanks for the write-up, it was helpful to read about your impressions on the different jumper settings. I appreciate how the NFB-11.28 allows for these adjustments to the ES9028's filters, although the impact that these settings have on sound is rather abstract and subtle relative to concepts like brightness or warmth. In the future, I may try the combination of slow/minimal since I went straight from fast/minimal to slow/linear, so I skipped some variables there.

But yeah, the NFB-11.28 sounds wonderful as-is. Last week I tried pairing it with a Schiit Eitr USB to S/PDIF converter since a number of people over in the "vs. R2R-11" thread were saying great things. When I tried the slow/linear setting a few months ago, all I can remember is that the sound was ever so slightly more dull and laid-back. When I tried the Eitr, it had sort of an opposite effect where the sound became more vivid, detailed, and even a bit fatiguing to my ears. Both times I made a change, I ended up craving the original sound that I heard from the NFB-11.28 on day one.
 
Feb 9, 2018 at 6:54 PM Post #2,899 of 3,093
Re-reading my report, I saw that I had switched the names for my impression on fast roll-off vs. slow roll-off.
(It read that I preferred 'slow', but that should have said 'fast')

I have now edited that post, so just to be sure: I have 'warm sound', 'minimal phase', 'fast roll-off'.
 
Feb 24, 2018 at 4:35 PM Post #2,902 of 3,093
I am very new to all of this. I’m planning on getting m1060s and want to get an amp/dac for use with a MacBook, and also a turntable (vinyl). I’m not sure what the difference is between the 11.28 and the 11.32. Can someone tell me the difference between them and recommend which version would sound better for both usb/dac as well as rca/turntable?

Also, I see there are 2 upgrades available for 20 each but the explanations aren’t very clear as to what they do. Should I get them?
 
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Feb 25, 2018 at 8:44 AM Post #2,903 of 3,093
I am very new to all of this. I’m planning on getting m1060s and want to get an amp/dac for use with a MacBook, and also a turntable (vinyl). I’m not sure what the difference is between the 11.28 and the 11.32. Can someone tell me th

The NFB-11.28 is the current version while the NFB-11.32 is the previous one. Only the 11.28 is available for purchase from manufacturer Audio-gd. The previous version may be available on second hand or, possibly, new from other stores that still have it in stock. The 11.28 has improvements over the 11.32. it uses the latest DAC chip and has a better USB module.
Both work as a DAC with headphones amp and have no analog input. They only support signals from digital sources. There is no way to connect your turntable analog signal to any version of the NFB-11. Audio-gd have separate headphones amplifiers and other DAC/amp combos with analog inputs. Check their web site to find a model that suits your needs. Beware that you will have to pay more than you would for the NFB-11 in order to get an analog input.
The cheapest combos with analog input from Audio-gd are the NFB-29.28 for single ended and the NFB-28.28 for balanced:
http://audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB29.38/NFB29.38EN.htm
http://audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB28.38/NFB28.38EN.htm

Both use the same DAC chip as the NFB-11.28. There is also a version with the more advanced chip ES9028Pro at an extra bonus price.

If you intend to use your headphones with balanced connection, the balanced NFB-28.xx combo is recommended.

These combos will cost double the price of the NFB-11, but the circuitry is much more complex with step attenuator volume control, remote control, digital display, more sofisticated power supplies, more powerfull amplifier, many inputs including two analog ones and more. Considering all that is included in the pack, they seem to be even a better value than the NFB-11.

Keep in mind that in order to listen to your vinyl records, you will also need a phono preamp, as the combo with analog input does not have the gain and RIAA EQ required by the phono cartridge.
 
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Feb 25, 2018 at 1:02 PM Post #2,904 of 3,093
The NFB-11.28 is the current version while the NFB-11.32 is the previous one. Only the 11.28 is available for purchase from manufacturer Audio-gd. The previous version may be available on second hand or, possibly, new from other stores that still have it in stock. The 11.28 has improvements over the 11.32. it uses the latest DAC chip and has a better USB module.
Both work as a DAC with headphones amp and have no analog input. They only support signals from digital sources. There is no way to connect your turntable analog signal to any version of the NFB-11. Audio-gd have separate headphones amplifiers and other DAC/amp combos with analog inputs. Check their web site to find a model that suits your needs. Beware that you will have to pay more than you would for the NFB-11 in order to get an analog input.
The cheapest combos with analog input from Audio-gd are the NFB-29.28 for single ended and the NFB-28.28 for balanced:
http://audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB29.38/NFB29.38EN.htm
http://audio-gd.com/Pro/Headphoneamp/NFB28.38/NFB28.38EN.htm

Both use the same DAC chip as the NFB-11.28. There is also a version with the more advanced chip ES9029Pro at an extra bonus price.

If you intend to use your headphones with balanced connection, the balanced NFB-28.xx combo is recommended.

These combos will cost double the price of the NFB-11, but the circuitry is much more complex with step attenuator volume control, remote control, digital display, more sofisticated power supplies, more powerfull amplifier, many inputs including two analog ones and more. Considering all that is included in the pack, they seem to be even a better value than the NFB-11.

Keep in mind that in order to listen to your vinyl records, you will also need a phono preamp, as the combo with analog input does not have the gain and RIAA EQ required by the phono cartridge.
 
Feb 25, 2018 at 1:07 PM Post #2,905 of 3,093
Thanks for the replies. After looking at those options it’s just out of my price range right now. I just kind of cleared out my bank account with a Thin Skin Jazzmaster in Charcoal Frost Metallic, so for my budget and needs I’m thinking I’ll just get the Magni3/Mani for vinyl and get the NFB for use with my MacBook later on. It’ll cost more in the end but I can do it in pieces over time, which is better for me
 
Mar 18, 2018 at 7:38 AM Post #2,906 of 3,093
Hi All, (i think i posted wrgonly in the vs thread)

So here I am with questions asking the masters here = )

I am using NFB 11.28 connected to Schiit Eitr through coax according to the specs page of nfb/r2r is as follows.

USB model: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz, 176.4kHz , 192kHz, 352.8kHz,384kHz
Coaxial model: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz, 176.4kHz ,192kHz

If I am playing any file up to 192kHz Coax through Schiit Eitr seems fine.

How about DSD Files ? Would it be recommended coax or usb direct ? Would there be a difference ?

Thanks
 
Mar 18, 2018 at 8:38 AM Post #2,907 of 3,093
Hi All, (i think i posted wrgonly in the vs thread)

So here I am with questions asking the masters here = )

I am using NFB 11.28 connected to Schiit Eitr through coax according to the specs page of nfb/r2r is as follows.

USB model: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz, 176.4kHz , 192kHz, 352.8kHz,384kHz
Coaxial model: 44.1kHz, 48kHz, 88.2kHz, 96kHz, 176.4kHz ,192kHz

If I am playing any file up to 192kHz Coax through Schiit Eitr seems fine.

How about DSD Files ? Would it be recommended coax or usb direct ? Would there be a difference ?

Thanks
You must use USB for DSD, otherwise you will have to convert to PCM and dowsample to 172kHZ or 192kHz.
Playing DSD files also requires a player capable of bitstreaming it to the USB DAC, like JRiver MC (PC and Mac), foobar2000 (PC), Amarra (Mac), Audirvana (Mac), Volumio (Raspberry Pi) etc.
 
Mar 18, 2018 at 2:51 PM Post #2,908 of 3,093
You must use USB for DSD, otherwise you will have to convert to PCM and dowsample to 172kHZ or 192kHz.
Playing DSD files also requires a player capable of bitstreaming it to the USB DAC, like JRiver MC (PC and Mac), foobar2000 (PC), Amarra (Mac), Audirvana (Mac), Volumio (Raspberry Pi) etc.
Oh wow playing DSD seems to be a little bit more complicated than I thought.

by the way, its always better to have it in Low gain and go higher volume than doing in high gain, is this true ?
 
Mar 18, 2018 at 5:09 PM Post #2,909 of 3,093
Oh wow playing DSD seems to be a little bit more complicated than I thought.

by the way, its always better to have it in Low gain and go higher volume than doing in high gain, is this true ?
No, it is not complicated. You just need the correct player. Foobar2000 settings are a little complicated but there are tutorials online to guide you to set it up for DSD playback, but it is free. The other players I mentioned are paid but they are hassle free players for all formats. What platform do you use? Windows, Mac or Linux?
Here there is a list of players capable of DSD playback:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Rv2CT1Y_ESpNSv2b0nkKlBySk/edit#gid=1964212797

I use JRiver Media Center. There are versions for Windows, Mac and Linux. You can try it free for 30 days.
It is more than just an audio player. It plays and streams video and pictures as well. It also plays and records TV, if you have the hardware to access TV transmissions.

Concerning the gain control, it does not affect the sound at all (at least for my ears). Use the position that gives you the better volume control. If you have sensitive headphones it is better to use low gain. For higher impedance low sensitive headphones, use the high gain. This will help you having a better control making the volume knob not being either too close to the minimum neither too close to the maximum.
 
Mar 20, 2018 at 4:32 AM Post #2,910 of 3,093
Do nfb 11 allows line-out and headphone out at the same time? with r2r 11 I can only choose either headphone or line-out but not both...
 

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