[Carlsan]

I was thinking of the NFB-2 myself, but with a non-Audio-gd amp, the Schiit Lyr that's getting lots of discussion.
Have to wonder about loosing the benefit of ACSS. as the Lyr would use RCA inputs. Perhaps I should look elsewhere for a quality dac if I'm not sticking to an Audio-gd dac/amp ACSS combination?

 

[sphinxvc]

Quote:

For songs with bad recording quality, namely loudness war albums, I derive more enjoyment from my $300 sparrow than my $1000 dac9mk3. Also sometimes music is just too serious, so at times I get tired of my more hi-end gear and find low-end gear more pleasant and engaging.

I think this is the primary reason to opt for the WM version.  As Kingwa said:
 
[size=small]The NFB-10ES version applies the Sabre32 ES9018 chip, it has quite high fidelity, its sound signature is absolutely revealing, neutral and faithful and very detailed. It can show how good or how bad a recording is. If you are afraid of flaws being revealed in the music files, other gears like those applying WM8741 will be better. Our gears that apply WM8741 are designed to sound neutral and revealing but with a little smoothness. [/size]
 
But then, upgrading & and choosing to lose fidelity (while it may be practical) seems a bit counter-intuitive.

 

[Baird GoW]

Quote:

Quote:

For songs with bad recording quality, namely loudness war albums, I derive more enjoyment from my $300 sparrow than my $1000 dac9mk3. Also sometimes music is just too serious, so at times I get tired of my more hi-end gear and find low-end gear more pleasant and engaging.

I think this is the primary reason to opt for the WM version.  As Kingwa said:
 

[size=small]The NFB-10ES version applies the Sabre32 ES9018 chip, it has quite high fidelity, its sound signature is absolutely revealing, neutral and faithful and very detailed. It can show how good or how bad a recording is. If you are afraid of flaws being revealed in the music files, other gears like those applying WM8741 will be better. Our gears that apply WM8741 are designed to sound neutral and revealing but with a little smoothness. [/size]
 
But then, upgrading & and choosing to lose fidelity (while it may be practical) seems a bit counter-intuitive.

I thought about getting the WM but then was told I couldn't get BNC input instead of USB since BNC has less jitter than RCA and is true 75ohm. Then realized the ES handles jitter better than the WM. So I went with the ES.
 

 

[haloxt]

Quote:

I can't help thinking that the NFB10 offers a lot of features (including balanced) and that implies each component may not be much of a step up from (Audio-gd) entry level. I'd happily be corrected on that! And I have to say it does look good value for a complete balanced system.

Really, I don't intend to be disparaging, just trying to get a handle on where this units sits in quality and value. It may be that diminishing returns mean it holds its own against the standalone DACs.

 

Kingwa said the NFB-10 when used balanced is better than dac19+c2. When you get a combo instead of standalone, you are paying less for chassis, so it is better bang for buck in terms of just parts count . I haven't listened to the NFB-10, and doubt I will in the foreseeable future, but I believe it will hit the sweet spot for a good percentage of people who crave audio gear with high resolution. I honestly think audio-gd's very top of the line gear is the sort of option for the audiophile who doesn't want to settle for something less, yet still has to take budget into consideration. Presumably, this audiophile has also tried and believe in audio tweaks like cables and power filtering and has sometimes stayed awake at night thinking about the tragic loudness war and stays away from very compressed albums. If you aren't that extreme an audiophile, I would nudge you towards audio-gd's lower tier gear or their mid/upper musical gear. Their entry level wm8741 dac's are forgiving and engaging . Their diamond differential I haven't tried yet but am fairly certain it can be more entertaining than neutral gear, but I also presume will sometimes seem not that true to recording. Kingwa once said diamond differential was good for things like vocals, but you may notice orphean distortion in violins and pianos, but that's not necessarily good or bad.

 

[somestranger26]

After listening to the DI -> NFB-10ES for a few days, I can certainly say it was worth the wait and represents a great value for those desiring a balanced setup. My old setup was a Hiface -> Dac-19mk3 and even running RCA out to my HK 3390 powering Energy RC-10 speakers I noticed some improvements.
 
When using my speakers, there is a greater separation between the channels and a more defined soundstage. The low frequencies are considerably more detailed, reproducing reverberations in male vocals and bass that I couldn’t hear before. The rest of the sound is quite similar to the Dac-19mk3: really neutral and faithful to the recording.
 
The rest of my impressions are with the HE-6 using the balanced headphone out compared to my EF5. The people saying you need a speaker amp to drive the HE-6 are wrong, you simply need one that can deliver adequate power (seems about 4-6W at 50 ohm based on what I’ve read) and the NFB-10 drives them remarkably. The sound is so effortless and smooth (a sign of proper amplification) I can't imagine a speaker amp driving them any better unless its price was in the stratosphere like the Leben CS300 some members enjoy with the HE-6.
 
The bass has improved massively over the EF5 and I’m guessing this has to do with the switch to balanced. Impact is like having a subwoofer on my head, yet incredibly quick and clean and extends deep to 15hz and below. Listening to songs that I know to have such low frequencies (15-20hz) they are reproduced wonderfully.
 
The treble is superb, the ES chip really seems to synergize with the HE-6; details I've never heard before are jumping out at me. Overemphasis in this area is rarely a problem, even poorly mastered recordings sound fine to me using the NFB-10ES; I find they sound a bit dull and lifeless but still listenable. Harsh treble only seems to be a problem with extremely low quality sources.
 
Vocal/midrange presentation is natural, smooth and well-articulated; the midrange blends right in with the bass and treble with nothing overemphasized, totally neutral. Soundstage has no gaps in it that some people have experienced when under-powering the HE-6, it feels very 3-dimensional in the right recordings (like orchestral music or good live recordings). 
 
The speed of the HE-6 has improved as well, dissecting busy passages in genres like metal and post rock among others and revealing new layers of the music especially where complex drum beats are involved. Listening to Shpongle is like a whole new experience with the NFB-10ES.
 
Overall, I’m loving the NFB-10ES’s absolutely neutral and revealing sound and think it does a wonderful job driving the HE-6. I was pleasantly surprised to find it performs very well in single ended as well as balanced. You get great value in both sound and build quality; the chassis is beautiful and the anodized aluminum is nice and soft (seems better machined) compared to my dac-19mk3. Mine came without vents and barely gets warm to the touch.

 

[Danutz]

Hi,
 
I just experienced a little with the front-end used with my NFB10WM:
 
- usual setup: PC - ulilith-player and SPL-Vitalizer-plugin - M-audio 2496 - spdif out - Oehlbach coax cable - Spdif in 
 
- tried my old Sony X779ES via Coax-out (oehlbach-coax-cable): no chance against my ususal  PC-Setup (no wide soundstage, no enthousiasm in sound, eeehhh???)
 
- at the moment trying PC -> Terratec Phase X24 (external soundcard with firewire) - Toslink out (with toslink cable delivered with NFB10) - Toslink in NFB10: really good, more details, but smaller soundstage than usual setup and perhaps a more "artificial" sound... (are there differences in toslink cables, what about the one delivered by Audio-Gd with my NFB10)
 
Now I am sure that frontend is influencing even the sound of my new Wolfson-Dac and if only the terratec ext. soundcard would have an Coax-spdif-out, I have the feeling that it could even top the coax out of the internal 2496... mmmmhhhh!?
 
Now even more interested in getting something like JKenny Hiface MK2 or Audio-GD Digital Interface... What do you think? Any other idea how I could improve my frontend (the M-audio 2496 used to be a "good" device)
 
I am really confused about the fact, why my Sony sounds so middle-class via coax out... I supposed it would beat my PC (lower jitter, better power supply etc.)
 
Question: What is the best spdif/coax front end you know? 
 
Thanks,
 
Dan
 

 

[somestranger26]

Quote:

Hi,
 
I just experienced a little with the front-end used with my NFB10WM:
 
- usual setup: PC - ulilith-player and SPL-Vitalizer-plugin - M-audio 2496 - spdif out - Oehlbach coax cable - Spdif in 
 
- tried my old Sony X779ES via Coax-out (oehlbach-coax-cable): no chance against my ususal  PC-Setup (no wide soundstage, no enthousiasm in sound, eeehhh???)
 
- at the moment trying PC -> Terratec Phase X24 (external soundcard with firewire) - Toslink out (with toslink cable delivered with NFB10) - Toslink in NFB10: really good, more details, but smaller soundstage than usual setup and perhaps a more "artificial" sound... (are there differences in toslink cables, what about the one delivered by Audio-Gd with my NFB10)
 
Now I am sure that frontend is influencing even the sound of my new Wolfson-Dac and if only the terratec ext. soundcard would have an Coax-spdif-out, I have the feeling that it could even top the coax out of the internal 2496... mmmmhhhh!?
 
Now even more interested in getting something like JKenny Hiface MK2 or Audio-GD Digital Interface... What do you think? Any other idea how I could improve my frontend (the M-audio 2496 used to be a "good" device)
 
I am really confused about the fact, why my Sony sounds so middle-class via coax out... I supposed it would beat my PC (lower jitter, better power supply etc.)
 
Question: What is the best spdif/coax front end you know? 
 
Thanks,
 
Dan
 

Go for a digital interface and make some tweaks to the playback software, you said you're using a DSP ("SPL-vitalizer") so you'd probably want to disable anything like that to get bit perfect output for the best sq.

 

[Danutz]

Hi,
 
Thanks for that advice! When I disable the plugin, how do I know for sure that I run bit-perfect? What are these "tweaks" I should make? 

 

[somestranger26]

Quote:

Hi,
 
Thanks for that advice! When I disable the plugin, how do I know for sure that I run bit-perfect? What are these "tweaks" I should make? 

The easiest way, imo, is to use Foobar2000 with WASAPI output plugin. Your current player might also have WASAPI as an option, as long as it is running in exclusive mode (other sounds on your computer are muted) then it should be bit perfect to the digital interface. If you search for "drop out" in the digital interface thread you will find some information about tweaks you can make to improve the experience, varying from minor to extreme. I just changed a few settings like the buffer size in foobar and it works fine now with the nfb-10.

 

[Currawong]

Could purely have to do with the electrical properties of the Sony's output. I test digital gear against the output of my Onkyo DV-SP502. However, looking inside it, I see the digital output board is connected via a long length of what is clearly not 75 Ohm cable.

 

[zenpunk]

shocking!

 

[Danutz]

Hi,
 
I have been usin foobar for a long time with wasapi... but after trying StealthAudiolayer, I believed that this one sounded better! As it was too minimalistic, no GUI, I searched for other players and found uLilith! I run it with Asio, because with wasapi I can only run it with 48khz and it sometimes refused to play some titles (very picky)... So with Asio no problems and everything is set to 96khz (maximum for the m-audio 2496)...
 
On the other hand I would not really like to "disable" the SPL Vitalizer... as I think it sounds really great with a little "processing" and I need to "tighten" the bass, as there is to much when used without plugin... I wasn't really aware of the prblem with "bit-perfectness"
 
I tried a few songs without the plugin, but the sound gets too boomy with my speaker setup, mmmhhh!? NFB10WM really produces lots of BASSSS (for my setup it is too much, but perhaps it will tighten up after one more week of burn-in... who knows...)
 
Have you never tried uLilith (strongly recommended!) 

 

[BoyNamedSue]

Got mine a couple days ago, and essentially my initial observations confirm what was described on the audio-gd website. After listening to the NFB10ES via foobar WASAPI USB w/ D7000s balanced, my initial impressions are that the sound is very detailed (hearing things never heard before), great sound separation, deep bass that can be felt, neutral but a bit sterile for my taste. Hopefully I'll learn to like it more with burn-in.
 
The NFB-12, on the other hand, sounds more full-bodied, engaging and fun right from the get go! I feel less emotionally engaged with my songs with the NFB-10ES compared to the 12 and find myself being more analytical with the sound of the 10ES. The musical experience has been more "cognitive"  with the 10ES which is not how I like to listen to music. Perhaps I am not a real audiophile, just someone who enjoys his music =P. Anyhow, these are just my initial impressions and N=1 - I am expecting improvements as noted by observations of past audio-gd gear.
 
BTW, Speakers via RCA out sound great with the 10ES!

 

[somestranger26]

This sterility will probably go away with burn in. After about 100 hours I noticed the sound opened up even more and became more engaging with my speakers (no he-6 around to judge) and I agree rca out sounds great.
Quote:

Got mine a couple days ago, and essentially my initial observations confirm what was described on the audio-gd website. After listening to the NFB10ES via foobar WASAPI USB w/ D7000s balanced, my initial impressions are that the sound is very detailed (hearing things never heard before), great sound separation, deep bass that can be felt, neutral but a bit sterile for my taste. Hopefully I'll learn to like it more with burn-in.
 
The NFB-12, on the other hand, sounds more full-bodied, engaging and fun right from the get go! I feel less emotionally engaged with my songs with the NFB-10ES compared to the 12 and find myself being more analytical with the sound of the 10ES. The musical experience has been more "cognitive"  with the 10ES which is not how I like to listen to music. Perhaps I am not a real audiophile, just someone who enjoys his music =P. Anyhow, these are just my initial impressions and N=1 - I am expecting improvements as noted by observations of past audio-gd gear.
 
BTW, Speakers via RCA out sound great with the 10ES!

 

 

[Matthew.C]

Is there a usb version for the NFB10ES?