Audio GD C2C
Apr 1, 2009 at 6:45 AM Post #121 of 657
Quote:

Originally Posted by insyte /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Not that Im glad that you can't hear any difference. But this is a very important impression for me since Im limited to using the RCA inputs for now. At least now I know that the difference between using XLR vs RCA is either, none, very minimal or hard to discern
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Probably depends both on your ears and on the equipment used. When I ordered my Reference One Kingwa warned me that the RCA output would not show the unit to its full potential. XLR would be better and the best connection would be CAST (in his estimation). I'll be sure to test it once I've gathered enough funds to buy a Phoenix. Say, in ten years or so.
 
Apr 1, 2009 at 7:12 AM Post #122 of 657
Quote:

Originally Posted by Drosera /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Probably depends both on your ears and on the equipment used. When I ordered my Reference One Kingwa warned me that the RCA output would not show the unit to its full potential. XLR would be better and the best connection would be CAST (in his estimation). I'll be sure to test it once I've gathered enough funds to buy a Phoenix. Say, in ten years or so.


Oh nooooooooo
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Oh well so I'll probably upgrade my DAC first when I have the funds
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Apr 1, 2009 at 7:50 AM Post #123 of 657
Quote:

Originally Posted by insyte /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Oh nooooooooo
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Oh well so I'll probably upgrade my DAC first when I have the funds
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I think you have an amazing amp there with the C-2C. Never let upgraditis spoil your listening enjoyment.
 
Apr 1, 2009 at 11:43 AM Post #125 of 657
Quote:

Originally Posted by Drosera /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Probably depends both on your ears and on the equipment used. When I ordered my Reference One Kingwa warned me that the RCA output would not show the unit to its full potential. XLR would be better and the best connection would be CAST (in his estimation). I'll be sure to test it once I've gathered enough funds to buy a Phoenix. Say, in ten years or so.


That's interesting, because my two best cables are the Van Den Hul Thunderline XLR and Orchid RCA. The latter cable is supposed to be much better (it's a new design) than the former (an old design, but updated somewhat). Switching between them on my Stax rig, there's very little difference at all, making me wonder if the XLR has some benefit over the RCA with the Ref 1.

When I first bought the C2C, I thought it a very odd design, having balanced input, but only single-ended output. Kingwa told me that the C2C needed a good quality source. I thought he was referring to the fact that I was only using a Zero DAC at the time, but I realised that he was being dead straight about it when I found how well it carries detail through.

I had a listen, by the way, to my old model and the new one, and could barely discern a difference, despite the circuit change. It's hard to tell that it isn't from burn-in either.
 
Apr 1, 2009 at 1:58 PM Post #126 of 657
If there's a difference between XLR and RCA on the C2C, I expect the difference would be much easier to spot with a higher end dac like the Ref 1. While I like my DacMagic, I don't know if its XLR ports are there to give more connection options or whether the DacMagic is really a balanced design. Since we know the Ref 1 is definitely balanced, it would be good to test it out as well.
 
Apr 1, 2009 at 2:38 PM Post #127 of 657
Well I promised you guys I would let you know how the DAC-19SE sounds with the C-2C so here's a little review using HD650/600's and K701. I might post a full review later in a separate thread but since the DAC-19 will probably be a fairly popular DAC to pair with the C-2C I feel a short review is fitting for this thread.

The DAC arrived in perfect condition and was packaged very well in a surprisingly large box. I purchased the HDCD model which uses a PMD100 chip for the digital filter. I was told by Kingwa that the PMD100 sounds better with standard Red Book CD's than the basic model using the DF1704 digital filter chip.

I was originally using a Little Dot MKV as my amp and either a Denon DVD-2910 as my source or a Zero DAC with Earth HDAM. The Zero DAC had a slightly better sound than the Denon but did not have as good a S/N ratio and could always hear some hiss when the Zero was connected to the MKV.

I had received the C-2C about a week and a half before the DAC-19 so I have become accustomed to its sound and the improvement it made over the MKV. The first thing I noticed when I added the DAC-19 to the chain was that it was not as significant an improvement compared to what I had experienced when I upgraded from the MKV to C-2C. Well... It may not be fair to say that the difference is not as significant because it really is! The difference is just not as immediate and did not stand out as much as the prior amplification upgrade did.

The differences are in the details. I was shocked when I listened to some recordings I had listened to many times before and swore that there were some defects in the recordings that I was picking out since they were repeatable every time. I found that when using the DAC-19 many of those defects magically disappeared! For example... Listening to Queen - Another One Bites the Dust, the main drum beat used to have a sort of digital clicking sound at the trailing frequencies. When using the DAC-19 everything comes out crystal clear and is simply real sounding. I no longer feel I am listening to a digital recording! This DAC is most definitely an upgrade over the Denon or Zero in every single way. The unit is very silent, extremely dynamic, very analytical and best of all simply does not sound digital in any way. I'm finally hearing the true colors of the music I have listened to many times before and even find that recordings I used to think were of pretty good quality are actually not all that great sometimes. The same goes for recordings that I used to think were just alright and which I've developed a new found appreciation.

Overall the DAC-19 is a darn fine unit for the price and will be hard to beat for under $500US. If I had to choose between the C-2C or DAC-19 I would have to say I'd choose the C-2C. The reason for this? I had mentioned previously that I felt the MKV lacked depth and authority in its voicing and I stand by that. The C-2C has eliminated what I found to be a mildly annoying compressed sound to voices and just generally brings the HD650's and K701 to life! I didn't even know the K701 had any life in them until now!

Hmm... I wonder what kind of improvements Kingwa's new Phoenix fully balanced headamp would make? NO! Can't... think... these... thoughts! Need money for food!
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Apr 1, 2009 at 11:34 PM Post #129 of 657
Short post / review:

I just received my new PS Audio DLIII DAC today, and she's a beauty! Even longer than the C2C if you can believe it.

A longer review is forthcoming after it's burned it, but regarding the difference between RCA and XLR inputs...

I can barely, if anything, hear a difference between the inputs with "redbook" 16/44 music. I'm toggling between the two, and it's a crapshoot.

However, interestingly, with 24/96 audio like Barb Jungr's stuff from Linn Records, there is enhanced detail and dimension with XLR. The RCA is just a bit thinner and closed, whereas the XLR gives it more body.

Whether this is a function of the processing of the DAC or the inputs of the amp, I don't know, but there you go...
 
Apr 2, 2009 at 7:29 AM Post #131 of 657
Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif
That's interesting, because my two best cables are the Van Den Hul Thunderline XLR and Orchid RCA. The latter cable is supposed to be much better (it's a new design) than the former (an old design, but updated somewhat). Switching between them on my Stax rig, there's very little difference at all, making me wonder if the XLR has some benefit over the RCA with the Ref 1.


Quote:

Originally Posted by deadie /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I can barely, if anything, hear a difference between the inputs with "redbook" 16/44 music. I'm toggling between the two, and it's a crapshoot.


Thanks for those impressions. In a way, it's all good news to me, because I'll be using my Ref One with RCA output for the near future. (And with nothing but Redbook.) It's good to hear that it manages to show a lot of its potential with that connection.

So perhaps the real step up would be to go to CAST rightaway? Good to know the Phoenix is coming. Do you think it's time already to ask Kingwa for a Stax headphone amplifier with CAST input?
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Apr 2, 2009 at 1:03 PM Post #133 of 657
Quote:

Originally Posted by Drosera /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Thanks for those impressions. In a way, it's all good news to me, because I'll be using my Ref One with RCA output for the near future. (And with nothing but Redbook.) It's good to hear that it manages to show a lot of its potential with that connection.

So perhaps the real step up would be to go to CAST rightaway? Good to know the Phoenix is coming. Do you think it's time already to ask Kingwa for a Stax headphone amplifier with CAST input?
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I recall someone being told by Kingwa that one gets the benefits of CAST even if one uses XLR or RCA connections.
 
Apr 2, 2009 at 1:35 PM Post #134 of 657
Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I recall someone being told by Kingwa that one gets the benefits of CAST even if one uses XLR or RCA connections.


Yes, in part at least. But as I understand it (not being able to read the Japanese SATRI documentation
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), CAST is a signal configuration both within equipment and between equipment. So getting a signal from a DAC to an amplifier without translating it to regular XLR or RCA will improve the quality of that connection and prevent signal degredation through interference.
 

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