Mik
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Here's a pic of my new stack. The C2C is big!
Audio GD C2C
- Thread starter insyte
- Start date
So now that my C2C has roughly 200 hours on it (100 Kingwa + 100 me), I decided to put it up against my Headroom Balanced Desktop to see what, if any differences presented themselves.
You can see in the above shot that I split the signal from the V-DAC as well as the size differences between the two amps.
Cutting to the chase, yes there are differences - three rather clear ones, in fact:
1) Power, of course. The Headroom unit has just gobs of power that manifest / reveals itself in how vocals, piano plings and plungs, bass guitar thums, etc just sound fuller, more dimensional. The highs come through nearly the same, very clean, but the lower end register in all notes is just richer & deeper and extends a bit longer.
2) Refinement. The Headroom just does everything better. A bit richer. Lusher.
3) Smoothness. This is likely a function of the respective age of both amps. I've had the Headroom for over a year whereas the C2C is just a couple hundred hours old. By itself, I'm quite happy with its sound, but upon comparison with a more mature amp, it's evident that the C2C's burn in is far from complete.
...which is cool, b/c I'm loving how this amp is just sounding better and better every morning after I wake up from all night burn-in sessions.
So, obvious caveats and other comments.
- It's really not fair to compare these two, given that the Headroom is 3x the cost. But it's really obvious that the C2C plays well above its price, and I look forward to the next shootout around the 500 hour mark.
- Could the SE to Balanced adapter on the C2C be muting some of the sound vs. straight to balanced from the Headroom? Perhaps. I may need to pick up another AKG701 and keep it SE.
- I also have a decent power supply for the Headroom - its Astrodyne unit. I bought SignalCable's power cord, so we'll see if that makes a difference.
- Will the behavior of either / both amps change with a native balanced signal? I'm looking for a balanced source right now. I sold my CI Audio VDA2, and am looking at the Cambridge DAC Magic, PS Audio DLIII, Music Hall, and of course the Benchmark.
Ultimately, I love both amps.
I love how this C2C is a hugenormous value, and she keeps getting better and better with time.
And I continue my love affair with the Headroom Balanced amp - she keeps demonstrating why I spent so much money on her, and for switching to the pricey balanced "ecosystem".
You can see in the above shot that I split the signal from the V-DAC as well as the size differences between the two amps.
Cutting to the chase, yes there are differences - three rather clear ones, in fact:
1) Power, of course. The Headroom unit has just gobs of power that manifest / reveals itself in how vocals, piano plings and plungs, bass guitar thums, etc just sound fuller, more dimensional. The highs come through nearly the same, very clean, but the lower end register in all notes is just richer & deeper and extends a bit longer.
2) Refinement. The Headroom just does everything better. A bit richer. Lusher.
3) Smoothness. This is likely a function of the respective age of both amps. I've had the Headroom for over a year whereas the C2C is just a couple hundred hours old. By itself, I'm quite happy with its sound, but upon comparison with a more mature amp, it's evident that the C2C's burn in is far from complete.
...which is cool, b/c I'm loving how this amp is just sounding better and better every morning after I wake up from all night burn-in sessions.
So, obvious caveats and other comments.
- It's really not fair to compare these two, given that the Headroom is 3x the cost. But it's really obvious that the C2C plays well above its price, and I look forward to the next shootout around the 500 hour mark.
- Could the SE to Balanced adapter on the C2C be muting some of the sound vs. straight to balanced from the Headroom? Perhaps. I may need to pick up another AKG701 and keep it SE.
- I also have a decent power supply for the Headroom - its Astrodyne unit. I bought SignalCable's power cord, so we'll see if that makes a difference.
- Will the behavior of either / both amps change with a native balanced signal? I'm looking for a balanced source right now. I sold my CI Audio VDA2, and am looking at the Cambridge DAC Magic, PS Audio DLIII, Music Hall, and of course the Benchmark.
Ultimately, I love both amps.
I love how this C2C is a hugenormous value, and she keeps getting better and better with time.
And I continue my love affair with the Headroom Balanced amp - she keeps demonstrating why I spent so much money on her, and for switching to the pricey balanced "ecosystem".
insyte
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Quote:
Ahhhh wasted my time on that thread
@Mik - nice rig
@Deadie - Wow C-2C vs a balanced amp. I'll wait for your impressions after burn in finishes
| Originally Posted by deadie /img/forum/go_quote.gif I had not heard about his purchase. I had not read that thread. And now that I've seen those pictures, I am desperately clawing out my eyes. My eyes! |
Ahhhh wasted my time on that thread
@Mik - nice rig
@Deadie - Wow C-2C vs a balanced amp. I'll wait for your impressions after burn in finishes
I'm amazed how small the Headamp Balanced Desktop is. I didn't think the C2C was that big, but then I'm used to hi-fi gear. A Headamp amp is on my shortlist of future gear to own, depending on how the HD-800s measure up to this Stax gear.
When you did the comparison, did you try it using the headphones single-ended with HBD? I gather that the effect of balancing headphones can be pretty dramatic.
I broke out my old MB Quart 55Xs, which I had prior to discovering head-fi, to try my new C2C with, as I've lent out my Denons and Senns in exchange for Stax. I thought that it would be a waste of time, as the 55Xs are rather on the level of cheap Grados, but I was rather shocked at how good everything sounded. Admittedly, much of this was due to the Reference 1. There are some tonality differences between my old and new C2C, but I'll wait for the return of my HD-600s before I investigate this more.
When you did the comparison, did you try it using the headphones single-ended with HBD? I gather that the effect of balancing headphones can be pretty dramatic.
I broke out my old MB Quart 55Xs, which I had prior to discovering head-fi, to try my new C2C with, as I've lent out my Denons and Senns in exchange for Stax. I thought that it would be a waste of time, as the 55Xs are rather on the level of cheap Grados, but I was rather shocked at how good everything sounded. Admittedly, much of this was due to the Reference 1. There are some tonality differences between my old and new C2C, but I'll wait for the return of my HD-600s before I investigate this more.
Skylab
Reviewerus Prolificus
The C-2C is actually a pretty big amp!
Quote:
Good question, and I thought about that as I left to go out for dinner tonight.
I ran two different tests:
1) SE Headroom vs. SE C2C
2) SE Headroom vs. Balanced Headroom
Re: #1, there still is a difference in fullness of note, but it's quite small.
The results of second test, however, were dramatic. It's like my sound peripheral vision just got wider and fuller.
Funnily enough, I've never done this SE vs Balanced test on my Headroom amp, using the adapter.
So we still have more questions:
1) Is balanced drive just THAT much better a connector / signal path in and of itself, even within the same amp?
2) Could I glean better sound quality if I used a "native" SE AKG701 vs. using the balanced adapter?
If someone would like to send me a nicely burned-in SE 701 to borrow, I'd be happy to run that test.
| Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif When you did the comparison, did you try it using the headphones single-ended with HBD? I gather that the effect of balancing headphones can be pretty dramatic. |
Good question, and I thought about that as I left to go out for dinner tonight.
I ran two different tests:
1) SE Headroom vs. SE C2C
2) SE Headroom vs. Balanced Headroom
Re: #1, there still is a difference in fullness of note, but it's quite small.
The results of second test, however, were dramatic. It's like my sound peripheral vision just got wider and fuller.
Funnily enough, I've never done this SE vs Balanced test on my Headroom amp, using the adapter.
So we still have more questions:
1) Is balanced drive just THAT much better a connector / signal path in and of itself, even within the same amp?
2) Could I glean better sound quality if I used a "native" SE AKG701 vs. using the balanced adapter?
If someone would like to send me a nicely burned-in SE 701 to borrow, I'd be happy to run that test.
insyte
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Quote:
Given that the C-2C is my first desktop amp and most of the amps I saw in meets were close to that size, I actually didn't know the C-2C was big until I saw the pic with the headroom on it. I was actually amazed and thought, wow that's a small balanced amplifier
| Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif The C-2C is actually a pretty big amp! |
Given that the C-2C is my first desktop amp and most of the amps I saw in meets were close to that size, I actually didn't know the C-2C was big until I saw the pic with the headroom on it. I was actually amazed and thought, wow that's a small balanced amplifier
deadie: That's quite impressive. I thought when I reviewed the C2C that it was tremendous value, even though I could only go how it compared to the LD MKV and the descriptions in other people's reviews, such as the tightness and detail in the bass, as well as the sound when headphones were plugged into my Lavry vs. plugged into the C2C. I'm glad that my impressions have been validated.
insyte: I remember the pics of the Headroom Max series, and they looked quite large, so I imagined the Balanced Desktop was a similar size.
insyte: I remember the pics of the Headroom Max series, and they looked quite large, so I imagined the Balanced Desktop was a similar size.
Quote:
Ideally, I'd love to iron out my methodology and make this a true SE to SE shootout with:
SE AKG701 & SE Headroom Desktop amp
That would give a "truer" indication of how far above its pricepoint the C2C plays.
Has anyone fed the C2C with a balanced signal yet? Is there a difference as compared to the RCA inputs?
| Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif deadie: That's quite impressive. I thought when I reviewed the C2C that it was tremendous value, even though I could only go how it compared to the LD MKV and the descriptions in other people's reviews, such as the tightness and detail in the bass, as well as the sound when headphones were plugged into my Lavry vs. plugged into the C2C. I'm glad that my impressions have been validated. |
Ideally, I'd love to iron out my methodology and make this a true SE to SE shootout with:
SE AKG701 & SE Headroom Desktop amp
That would give a "truer" indication of how far above its pricepoint the C2C plays.
Has anyone fed the C2C with a balanced signal yet? Is there a difference as compared to the RCA inputs?
Quote:
I'm waiting for the arrival of the XLR version of my Van Den Hul The Orchid to arrive, so I can do a comparison. With my borrowed Stax rig, the Thunderline balanced is almost as good as the Orchid RCA set, and the Orchid is supposed to be much better. This may or may not have significance, so I'm now more curious to test with the same cable with both the Stax and the C2C. My understanding though is that balanced connections are supposed to have a good effect when long cable runs are used.
| Originally Posted by deadie /img/forum/go_quote.gif Has anyone fed the C2C with a balanced signal yet? Is there a difference as compared to the RCA inputs? |
I'm waiting for the arrival of the XLR version of my Van Den Hul The Orchid to arrive, so I can do a comparison. With my borrowed Stax rig, the Thunderline balanced is almost as good as the Orchid RCA set, and the Orchid is supposed to be much better. This may or may not have significance, so I'm now more curious to test with the same cable with both the Stax and the C2C. My understanding though is that balanced connections are supposed to have a good effect when long cable runs are used.
Mik
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I have my C2C hooked up using XLR from my DacMagic. I don't know how "balanced" either the C2C or the DacMagic really is, but it does sound excellent. I haven't had time to compare using the RCA inputs yet. I'm just enjoying the sound too much.
Quote:
Cmon Mik - some off the cuff impressions would only take you a minute!
Be interesting if you have both the XLRs and RCAs hooked up at the same time, and then toggled the "RCA/XLR" input button on the C2C.
Is one louder?
Is one richer?
More detailed?
| Originally Posted by Mik /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have my C2C hooked up using XLR from my DacMagic. I don't know how "balanced" either the C2C or the DacMagic really is, but it does sound excellent. I haven't had time to compare using the RCA inputs yet. I'm just enjoying the sound too much.
|
Cmon Mik - some off the cuff impressions would only take you a minute!
Be interesting if you have both the XLRs and RCAs hooked up at the same time, and then toggled the "RCA/XLR" input button on the C2C.
Is one louder?
Is one richer?
More detailed?
I thought that XLR was designed for long runs of cable, where the difference would be noticeable.
Mik
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I just tried connecting my DacMagic to my C2C using both RCA and XLR. I played some FLACs in foobar while switching between RCA and XLR. I can't hear any difference at all. I'd like to be able to say XLR is better, but I have nothing to base it on. I'll still probably keep it hooked up with XLR though, just cause I can.
insyte
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Not that Im glad that you can't hear any difference. But this is a very important impression for me since Im limited to using the RCA inputs for now. At least now I know that the difference between using XLR vs RCA is either, none, very minimal or hard to discern
| Originally Posted by Mik /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just tried connecting my DacMagic to my C2C using both RCA and XLR. I played some FLACs in foobar while switching between RCA and XLR. I can't hear any difference at all. I'd like to be able to say XLR is better, but I have nothing to base it on. I'll still probably keep it hooked up with XLR though, just cause I can.
|
Not that Im glad that you can't hear any difference. But this is a very important impression for me since Im limited to using the RCA inputs for now. At least now I know that the difference between using XLR vs RCA is either, none, very minimal or hard to discern
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