Audeze LCD-5 Review, Measurements, Interview

[dfiled]

Anyone know any good systemwide eq’s on Mac? That also have the ability to change shapes at frequencies (high/low shelf, etc)?
Been trying out Roon’s parametric EQ but am looking for a systemwide program

I’ve been using sound source on my Mac and I’m very happy with it. Not expensive either.

 

[rsbrsvp]

I believe the "tuning" or frequency response graph of the TC is terrible. Please correct me if I'm wrong. However I believe it is the most liked and less disliked flagship audiophile headphone in existence. Certainly seems to be what I gather from reading hundreds of posts on Head-fi.

This makes me question the "tuning" question a lot. What is properly tuned? What does the ear like? It is so so subjective. TC is the proof that horrible tuning and a good amount of distortion (I believe one of the highest of all flagships) does not necessarily prevent the creation of one of the most liked headphones in history.

Therefore, a FR graph is MEANINGLESS to me.

 

[EMINENT]

Very intriguing this thread and others on the topic of tone. After pages and threads of different gear I have come to a conclusion since we're back to eq.

My takeaway... it seems like everything affects tuning down to the cable and millimeter of placement of pads on a head. This tells me I can not take any one or any manufacturer's tuning at face value. There are too many infinite variables and everything imparts it's own flavor. So much so that any talk of tonality is seriously becoming off putting.

I really appreciate @Resolve's process and using same equipment, same target and check for detail and how everything sounds when eq'd to your flavor. Doesn't matter what cable gave a fuller sound or holographic soundstage or which amp inferred more body or dac that reduced boomy bass. If the headphone is incapable of exceptional resolution, that's a problem to me. The qualities that got me here are accuracy, technical performance, detail, resolution and soundstage without the need for a $5-$10k chain. As long as these were met, you got my consideration and money. I wouldn't go and get a 5 star prime cut steak at a high end steak house and hope they get my seasoning and cook method spot on and after knowing how I can flavor my steak, I don't expect them to. I am not going to run around the country and find the right restaurant that does. I accept that if the quality of the meat is there then I get what I get. And, I wouldn't pay for prime cut prices on a perfectly seasoned dollar store steak either. Same for any headphone, same with my cars, same with my tv's. I flavor or tweak most everything. Make a quality, technically impressive thing and i'll flavor it how I want with any gear, eq or color as I see fit and can afford.
I came down to three. Susvara, LCD-5 and I nearly got the Stealth. Near perfect tuning according to a group of people and charts, my color choice blk/red, amazing folding design and small foot print, just not the same class in technical performance unfortunately. But, high on my list of possible closed back if I have to have one. However, to me not worth near Susvara money.


Sorry for the rant. Bit riled up waiting on my delivery and now I am just going to have it held for pickup and grab it on the way home from work. Hopefully they don't botch that.

 

[DarginMahkum]

I believe the "tuning" or frequency response graph of the TC is terrible. Please correct me if I'm wrong. However I believe it is the most liked and less disliked flagship audiophile headphone in existence. Certainly seems to be what I gather from reading hundreds of posts on Head-fi.

This makes me question the "tuning" question a lot. What is properly tuned? What does the ear like? It is so so subjective. TC is the proof that horrible tuning and a good amount of distortion (I believe one of the highest of all flagships) does not necessarily prevent the creation of one of the most liked headphones in history.

Therefore, a FR graph is MEANINGLESS to me.

It is meaningless to you. Ear adopts to what it is hearing. Take a HP you like, EQ the treble to be brighter, listen for a minute, and then turn the EQ off and that HP that you liked will suddenly sound too warm. It will take a while for your ears to stabilise again.

Whether you like a tuning and your ear has adapted to to it, and whether it is accurate are two different things. The accuracy might not be an issue for some types of sounds. Like, there are thousands of different guitar amps, which are either miced or even simulated in different ways. Sometimes even multiple amps are overlayed. Death metal vocals, electronic music etc. also fall into that category where the accuracy is not an issue. It is either not natural or heavily processed natural sound. So it is much easier to accept and adopt to the coloring of the HP or your rig, as tge references vary widely.

But things change when there is an acoustic sound source or a well known sound like rhodes come into the picture. Someone that has been hearing that sound source, especially live or in unprocessed form, will notice the divergence from the original if it is all over the place.

So, it might have no meaning for you, but for an ear that expects a natural signature things change.

 

[Chianti]

-

 

[alishafai]

I am going exchange my stock single ended for the balanced XLR. Since I only have 4.4, what do you think of this type of adapter and brand Gagacocc? Lol!

https://www.amazon.com/16cores-Balanced-Headphone-Adapter-TA-ZH1ES/dp/B06XKJWNXS/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=1ESU2YF7NYD0I&dchild=1&keywords=4.4+xlr+female&qid=1635995433&sprefix=4.4+xlr+female,aps,104&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyTk80UlpHRjJISjFQJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMTA3NTY1MkZCN0Y5T1A0TzZFMiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNTU2NzUwM0JPTEIzREpWSFI3MyZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU

 

[alishafai]

I am going exchange my stock single ended for the balanced XLR. Since I only have 4.4, what do you think of this type of adapter and brand Gagacocc? Lol!

https://www.amazon.com/16cores-Balanced-Headphone-Adapter-TA-ZH1ES/dp/B06XKJWNXS/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?crid=1ESU2YF7NYD0I&dchild=1&keywords=4.4+xlr+female&qid=1635995433&sprefix=4.4+xlr+female,aps,104&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyTk80UlpHRjJISjFQJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwMTA3NTY1MkZCN0Y5T1A0TzZFMiZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNTU2NzUwM0JPTEIzREpWSFI3MyZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU=

I suggest Hart Audio. They do custom work at a very reasonable rate, and best of all, their craftsmanship is great and they are super to work with. They made me adapters to go from 4-pin XLR to 4.4, 6.3, and 3.5.

 

[04gto]

Very intriguing this thread and others on the topic of tone. After pages and threads of different gear I have come to a conclusion since we're back to eq.

My takeaway... it seems like everything affects tuning down to the cable and millimeter of placement of pads on a head. This tells me I can not take any one or any manufacturer's tuning at face value. There are too many infinite variables and everything imparts it's own flavor. So much so that any talk of tonality is seriously becoming off putting.

I really appreciate @Resolve's process and using same equipment, same target and check for detail and how everything sounds when eq'd to your flavor. Doesn't matter what cable gave a fuller sound or holographic soundstage or which amp inferred more body or dac that reduced boomy bass. If the headphone is incapable of exceptional resolution, that's a problem to me. The qualities that got me here are accuracy, technical performance, detail, resolution and soundstage without the need for a $5-$10k chain. As long as these were met, you got my consideration and money. I wouldn't go and get a 5 star prime cut steak at a high end steak house and hope they get my seasoning and cook method spot on and after knowing how I can flavor my steak, I don't expect them to. I am not going to run around the country and find the right restaurant that does. I accept that if the quality of the meat is there then I get what I get. And, I wouldn't pay for prime cut prices on a perfectly seasoned dollar store steak either. Same for any headphone, same with my cars, same with my tv's. I flavor or tweak most everything. Make a quality, technically impressive thing and i'll flavor it how I want with any gear, eq or color as I see fit and can afford.
I came down to three. Susvara, LCD-5 and I nearly got the Stealth. Near perfect tuning according to a group of people and charts, my color choice blk/red, amazing folding design and small foot print, just not the same class in technical performance unfortunately. But, high on my list of possible closed back if I have to have one. However, to me not worth near Susvara money.


Sorry for the rant. Bit riled up waiting on my delivery and now I am just going to have it held for pickup and grab it on the way home from work. Hopefully they don't botch that.

As a Chef of 25+ years I fully endorse your steak analogy.

RE DCA Stealth: I so badly wanted to love that headphone. In part because I prefer closed backs for office use and I LOVE the way it looks, the comfort, materials etc are all top notch. Also they are made in my hometown and it would have been really nice to support DCA for making the effort to manufacture here at home. But just before and after I listened to those, I listened to LCD-5, Susvara, CRBN, VC and TC. Unfortunately for my sound preferences, where- clarity, detail, soundstage and dynamic impact are priorities, it just was not on the same level. I can definitely see how people could love them, but in contrast with the LCD-5 and a direct competitor like the VC, or even my LCD-XC in particular they just don't 'do it' for me.

I hope your 5's come today!

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Ear adopts to what it is hearing. Take a HP you like, EQ the treble to be brighter, listen for a minute, and then turn the EQ off and that HP that you liked will suddenly sound too warm. It will take a while for your ears to stabilise again.

This is simply one of the things so many audiophiles refuse to think about. The variability of one's own hearing on a moment to moment basis.

Our ears simply are not that great at identifying right from wrong, because to an extent, it adapts to the changes to make it sound more 'right' than the initial moment of listening.

It's also one of the reasons I (personally) can't go off what I hear in a brief demo, when I've spent the time prior listening to other sound signatures.

Don't get me wrong, show demos are fun. I just can't formulate a real opinion on a product based on a few minutes of listening. If the initial impression aligns with your tastes, then sure, it'll definitely be better once you have it at home, as your ears will better adapt to the sound.

On the other hand, if the initial impression was bad, I'd still question the validity of the impression as your ears simply didn't get to adapt to the sound. It'll likely be a better experience once you have that product at home.

As someone who has battled with people hating on virtual surround DSPs based off brief impressions, brief demos and a negative mindset will ruin any experience.

 

[OneEyedHito]

I suggest Hart Audio. They do custom work at a very reasonable rate, and best of all, their craftsmanship is great and they are super to work with. They made me adapters to go from 4-pin XLR to 4.4, 6.3, and 3.5.

just ordered, thanks for the link. I have been using a myriad of amazon specials for a while and I prefer the custom nature of this in one box.

 

[DarginMahkum]

This is simply one of the things so many audiophiles refuse to think about. The variability of one's own hearing on a moment to moment basis.

Our ears simply are not that great at identifying right from wrong, because to an extent, it adapts to the changes to make it sound more 'right' than the initial moment of listening.

It's also one of the reasons I (personally) can't go off what I hear in a brief demo, when I've spent the time prior listening to other sound signatures.

Don't get me wrong, show demos are fun. I just can't formulate a real opinion on a product based on a few minutes of listening. If the initial impression aligns with your tastes, then sure, it'll definitely be better once you have it at home, as your ears will better adapt to the sound.

On the other hand, if the initial impression was bad, I'd still question the validity of the impression as your ears simply didn't get to adapt to the sound. It'll likely be a better experience once you have that product at home.

As someone who has battled with people hating on virtual surround DSPs based off brief impressions, brief demos and a negative mindset will ruin any experience.

DSP is really the future. Too bad that we are still not there to integrate DSP into a LCD5 level headphone, like i4 and EQ cable.

Do you have any VSTs or other plug-ins you could recommend for surround effects?

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

just ordered, thanks for the link. I have been using a myriad of amazon specials for a while and I prefer the custom nature of this in one box.

I buy all my cables from Hart Audio. They're awesome.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

DSP is really the future. Too bad that we are still not there to integrate DSP into a LCD5 level headphone, like i4 and EQ cable.

Do you have any VSTs or other plug-ins you could recommend for surround effects?

At the moment, I'm keen on being able to properly simulate a room full of speakers in a 7.1 array. It really helps with video games and movies in particular, as the directionality is something that no headphone can convey no matter how large a soundstage or brilliant the imaging is. There is no replacement for actual audio information placed properly in a 360 degree horizontal circle around your listening position. So if you want to hear something being truly behind you, you need virtual surround on ytour headphones. I'd take a $15-$20 Koss KSC75 with virtual surround over an HD800 in 2ch/stereo for my gaming purposes, every single time. That's how important virtual surround is in object placement location. That KSC75 will simulate a room with speakers, while the HD800 is just gonna sound like a headphone with a large headphone soundstage. No headphone will sound as large as a room with speakers, which that little Koss KSC75 is simulating.

I have a few that I think really showcase the strength of virtual surround based DSPs.

1. Redscape Audio - This one is my current fave. You can also get it with a headtracking dongle, which if you've heard the Audeze Mobius with Waves NX headtracking, it's similar to that, but for any headphone.

2. Creative's SXFI - This is one of Credative's newer surround implementations, and I actually think is the mosty convincing, but it's also quite processed sounding, so it may turn off a lot of people unless (as we discussed) you allow your ears to adapt to the change. SXFI is available on many devices that Creative makes, though not sure on software based solutions.

3. Waves NX - Particularly on the Audeze Mobius, it's really quite immersive and gives you an easy all in one solution with headtracking.

4. Darin Fong's Out Of Your Head - This one is quite pricey, but you get a bunch of different real life venues, studios, home setups recorded and simulated on your headphones. It's quite brilliant, as you get to hear what they sound like on your headphones. Again, it's pricey.

5. Creative SBX - Creative's other surround implementation, I feel this is the best for people first getting used to virtual surround, as it is the least processed. It still does a fine job emulating surround properly, without it sounding too processed. This is the first choice I'd give any newcomer. It's found on some Creative hardware like the Creative X7, and G6. The great thing is that you can send that surround emulation digitally through optical out to another, better DAC if you wanted. Or just use these as a DAC to a better amplifier.

6. Sennheiser GSX - This is one of the best, but it's tied to some Sennheiser hardware that I feel limit its potential.

I should add that Xbox now utilizes Dolby Atmos at the hardware level, and Sony Playstation 5 uses Tempest 3D audio, both which when properly utilized, are great alternatives to the above. Tempest 3D audio can be finicky when things don't properly support it however, so definitely only use it with PS5 games, not so much older PS4 games.

I should note that I don't use these things for music, or 2ch content. I only use it with properly encoded 5/7 channel sources. Meaning, mostly video games, and movies.

 

[DarginMahkum]

At the moment, I'm keen on being able to properly simulate a room full of speakers in a 7.1 array. It really helps with video games and movies in particular, as the directionality is something that no headphone can convey no matter how large a soundstage or brilliant the imaging is. There is no replacement for actual audio information placed properly in a 360 degree horizontal circle around your listening position. So if you want to hear something being truly behind you, you need virtual surround on ytour headphones. I'd take a $15 KSC75 with virtual surround over an HD800 in stereo for my gaming purposes. That's how important virtual surround is in object placement location.

I have a few that I think really showcase the strength of virtual surround based DSPs.

1. Redscape Audio - This one is my current fave. You can also get it with a headtracking dongle, which if you've heard the AUdeze Mobius with Waves NX headtracking, it's similar to that, but for any headphone.

2. Creative's SXFI - This is one of Credative's newer surround implementations, and I actually think is the mosty convincing, but it's also quite processed sounding, so it may turn off a lot of people unless (as we discussed) you allow your ears to adapt to the change. SXFI is available on many devices that Creative makes, though not sure on software based solutions.

3. Waves NX - Particularly on the Audeze Mobius, it's really quite immersive and gives you an easy all in one solution with headtracking.

4. Darin Fong's Out Of Your Head - This one is quite pricey, but you get a bunch of different real life venues, studios, home setups recorded and simulated on your headphones. It's quite brilliant, as you get to hear what they sound like on your headphones. Again, it's pricey.

5. Creative SBX - Creative's other surround implementation, I feel this is the best for people first getting used to virtual surround, as it is the least processed. It still does a fine job emulating surround properly, without it sounding too processed. This is the first choice I'd give any newcomer. It's found on some Creative hardware like the Creative X7, and G6. The great thing is that you can send that surround emulation digitally through optical out to another, better DAC if you wanted. Or just use these as a DAC to a better amplifier.

6. Sennheiser GSX - This is one of the best, but it's tied to some Sennheiser hardware that I feel limit its potential.

I should add that Xbox now utilizes Dolby Atmos at the hardware level, and Sony Playstation 5 uses Tempest 3D audio, both which when properly utilized, are great alternatives to the above.

Wonderful, thank you very much! I guess I should first check my PS5. Immediately after I got the PS5, I finished both Last of Us games twice, and then I didn't feel like playing anything else after that awesomeness. Then I will check the other options. Thanks again.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Wonderful, thank you very much! I guess I should first check my PS5. Immediately after I got the PS5, I finished both Last of Us games twice, and then I didn't feel like playing anything else after that awesomeness. Then I will check the other options. Thanks again.

Tempest 3D audio can be finicky when things don't properly support it however, so definitely only use it with PS5 games, not so much older PS4 games.

To bring this back on topic,

I'm sure the LCD-5 with applied virtual surround DSP would be life changing for me. LCDs tend to have a large, immediate, tall soundstaging, which in addition to horizontally expansive DSPs would make for some truly immersive gaming.