Audeze LCD-2 Orthos
Jun 18, 2010 at 4:24 AM Post #1,921 of 18,459
I got mine only yesterday so this is very preliminary - the phones only have 6-8 hours on them. But I've been mostly listening to classical. My reference for the last several years has been the O2, with a custom-built tube amp based on the Stax T1 (but quite a bit more open-sounding). For the Audeze I've been listening on a custom built ss amp which drives them very well - plenty loud enough is around 10 o'clock (heck, even my Sony XA777ES headphone jack sounds pretty decent, though with much less gain available). I also now have a custom cable for them too, actually an extra Stax O2 Mk1 cable that got damaged and had to be replaced. It's a PC-OCC cable I think, although maybe not the same as the current Mk2 cable - now with Swtichcraft TA4Fs and gold-plated phone plug.
 
Anyway, based on a very cursory comparison and just a few hours of listening to the Audeze, it's obvious that these two phones offer quite different, and I would say complementary, windows onto music. The Audeze can be absolutely thrilling - it's a tightly controlled, dynamic, richly detailed, very present sound - a red-blooded type of experience. The Stax are quite a bit more laid back, very smooth and refined-sounding - extremely seductive in fact, especially for chamber music. Part of the difference certainly is tubes vs. ss. Unfortunately I don't have any other amps for comparison. But the friend who built my amps is working on a fully-discrete ss amp which he says will blow away the one I have now. So I'll wait till then (and after more break-in) before coming to any conclusions about the ultimate merits of the Audeze. But whatever happens, I'm not parting with the O2; even though my amp may not be the absolute last word in driving them (I've never heard the Blue Hawaii), there's a wonderful synergy about that sound that for me really does emotional justice to classical music, within the limitations of electrostatic technology (e.g. dynamics are not as good), and the slightly dark balance only seems to add to that mysterious alchemy. The Audeze on the other hand are probably a better reference tool, they just seem to dig deeper and come back with more of what's there, like a faithful, eager retriever. They put more texture, detail and color on instruments, whereas the O2 somehow seem to envelop the listener in the acoustic atmosphere that the music generates (I don't necessarily mean they represent acoustic space better, but they seem to emphasize the acoustic more - this might be being helped along by the liquidity of tubes, or it might be an artifact of the O2 in general). One thing's for sure, the LCD2 are very revealing of differences upstream, and cable fine-tuning may be worthwhile (Cardas will also make some if anyone's interested). Without doubt they are the most accurate-sounding and overall enjoyable dynamic headphones I've heard. Btw for me they are not at all on the dark side of neutral.
 

 
Quote:
 
Can anyone indulge me as to the qualities of the LCD2 with small and large scale classical? Please and Thank you! :)



 
Jun 18, 2010 at 5:08 AM Post #1,922 of 18,459
Very nice review.
I'm also looking forward to a standard vs. silver plated (or full silver) cable. Indeed the audeze suffer with a little retrocessed highs, and i wonder if the silver cable is enough to solve that.
 
Jun 18, 2010 at 8:47 AM Post #1,923 of 18,459
 Thanks tonereef. You've quite a headphone stash out there on the coast.
wink.gif

 
Jun 18, 2010 at 10:25 AM Post #1,925 of 18,459


Quote:
I got mine only yesterday so this is very preliminary - the phones only have 6-8 hours on them. But I've been mostly listening to classical. My reference for the last several years has been the O2, with a custom-built tube amp based on the Stax T1 (but quite a bit more open-sounding). For the Audeze I've been listening on a custom built ss amp which drives them very well - plenty loud enough is around 10 o'clock (heck, even my Sony XA777ES headphone jack sounds pretty decent, though with much less gain available). I also now have a custom cable for them too, actually an extra Stax O2 Mk1 cable that got damaged and had to be replaced. It's a PC-OCC cable I think, although maybe not the same as the current Mk2 cable - now with Swtichcraft TA4Fs and gold-plated phone plug.
 
Anyway, based on a very cursory comparison and just a few hours of listening to the Audeze, it's obvious that these two phones offer quite different, and I would say complementary, windows onto music. The Audeze can be absolutely thrilling - it's a tightly controlled, dynamic, richly detailed, very present sound - a red-blooded type of experience. The Stax are quite a bit more laid back, very smooth and refined-sounding - extremely seductive in fact, especially for chamber music. Part of the difference certainly is tubes vs. ss. Unfortunately I don't have any other amps for comparison. But the friend who built my amps is working on a fully-discrete ss amp which he says will blow away the one I have now. So I'll wait till then (and after more break-in) before coming to any conclusions about the ultimate merits of the Audeze. But whatever happens, I'm not parting with the O2; even though my amp may not be the absolute last word in driving them (I've never heard the Blue Hawaii), there's a wonderful synergy about that sound that for me really does emotional justice to classical music, within the limitations of electrostatic technology (e.g. dynamics are not as good), and the slightly dark balance only seems to add to that mysterious alchemy. The Audeze on the other hand are probably a better reference tool, they just seem to dig deeper and come back with more of what's there, like a faithful, eager retriever. They put more texture, detail and color on instruments, whereas the O2 somehow seem to envelop the listener in the acoustic atmosphere that the music generates (I don't necessarily mean they represent acoustic space better, but they seem to emphasize the acoustic more - this might be being helped along by the liquidity of tubes, or it might be an artifact of the O2 in general). One thing's for sure, the LCD2 are very revealing of differences upstream, and cable fine-tuning may be worthwhile (Cardas will also make some if anyone's interested). Without doubt they are the most accurate-sounding and overall enjoyable dynamic headphones I've heard. Btw for me they are not at all on the dark side of neutral.


Well put!  Well reasoned, aptly described.  I would think with that level of headphones, you're hearing a great deal of differences between the amps, irrespective of differing transducer technologies.  I'm looking forward to your hearing of the discrete amp your friend is building.
 
Jun 18, 2010 at 10:29 AM Post #1,926 of 18,459


 
Quote:
Very nice review.
I'm also looking forward to a standard vs. silver plated (or full silver) cable. Indeed the audeze suffer with a little retrocessed highs, and i wonder if the silver cable is enough to solve that.


It's highs without hash or peaks, and is mistaken for "lack-of"...I would muster better gear, and have it in place before worrying about wire type! I can detect every characteristic about changeing sources and amps, and they offer more advantage than a wire change. Wire is frosting on the cake! 
 
 
Jun 18, 2010 at 11:47 AM Post #1,927 of 18,459
Thanks tone reef for that thoughtful impression.  I am thrilled with your findings - being a little disappointed with the HD800 tonal balance, I looked at the Stax O2's as my next logical step up...in a few years time because an all stax setup retails for $9995 aus dollars.  I will have these LCD-2 when practicalities enable a lot sooner than that.
 
Jun 18, 2010 at 1:10 PM Post #1,928 of 18,459


Quote:
It's highs without hash or peaks, and is mistaken for "lack-of"...I would muster better gear, and have it in place before worrying about wire type! I can detect every characteristic about changeing sources and amps, and they offer more advantage than a wire change. Wire is frosting on the cake! 


Yeah i understand rewiring does not make big changes. But hifiman offers silver plated cables with just the shipping price.
Also, sorry to say that, but i don't think i've mistaken anything. I usually put science in the first place, and i guess the frequency response measurements are correctly. -10db at 2khz and 4khz, means it's 10db different from the original source (in this case the cd of course).
But i still agree that wiring is frosting on the cake, but frosting is better than not frosting ^^.
 
Jun 18, 2010 at 1:26 PM Post #1,930 of 18,459


Quote:
Yeah i understand rewiring does not make big changes. But hifiman offers silver plated cables with just the shipping price.
Also, sorry to say that, but i don't think i've mistaken anything. I usually put science in the first place, and i guess the frequency response measurements are correctly. -10db at 2khz and 4khz, means it's 10db different from the original source (in this case the cd of course).
But i still agree that wiring is frosting on the cake, but frosting is better than not frosting ^^.

Look, I have to set the record straight yet again...  (this particular issue has been addressed more then once in this thread)
If the LCDs sound "rolled off" in the HF to your ears, so be it, but to say that objectively they "are rolled off" is patently wrong.  The general FR HRTF contour that the LCD's have is fundamentally no different from any other high end headphone.  You can look at any published graph and see that for yourself.  
 
The -10db to which you refer is part of that contour and also part of virtually every other high end can on the market.  The fact that the LCDs have no objectionable and amusical spurious HF peaks in their response is a good thing, not a bad thing.  If after all of this, they're still not your cup of tea, that's fine, but that's your cup, not everyone else's.
 
 
Jun 18, 2010 at 1:48 PM Post #1,931 of 18,459


Quote:
Look, I have to set the record straight yet again...  (this particular issue has been addressed more then once in this thread)
If the LCDs sound "rolled off" in the HF to your ears, so be it, but to say that objectively they "are rolled off" is patently wrong.  The general FR HRTF contour that the LCD's have is fundamentally no different from any other high end headphone.  You can look at any published graph and see that for yourself.  
 
The -10db to which you refer is part of that contour and also part of virtually every other high end can on the market.  The fact that the LCDs have no objectionable and amusical spurious HF peaks in their response is a good thing, not a bad thing.  If after all of this, they're still not your cup of tea, that's fine, but that's your cup, not everyone else's.
 

 
I believe these are the best headphones (especially for my taste and your reviews), so these are the cans i'm going to buy. I saw that link that measured many headphones, and already knew how headphones tend to have rolled highs.
I was just saying that they're rolled compared to the source, and to speakers. I would never use silver plated cables on my speakers, but maybe i would on these cans.
I agree that cables make little difference, actually i'm going to spend little on the amp (audio gd sparrow), so i want to spend even less on the cables. Was just wondering that maybe it would be nice to get silver plated cables for little more (like i said, as hifiman is doing).
I never intended to complain about these cans, so i don't see why you are getting upset.
Actually i'm very happy that most of you pointed out how these cans beat the stax omega in many aspects.
 
 
Jun 18, 2010 at 3:46 PM Post #1,933 of 18,459
i noticed that most of the discomfort regarding the xlr pins hitting the collar bone was due to the heatshrink sleeving, which on my pair was about 1 1/2" in length. so i cut a big chunk of it off and now it is MUCH more comfortable. the headband also loosens up after a few days of wearing them too. 
 
Jun 18, 2010 at 4:46 PM Post #1,934 of 18,459


Quote:
i noticed that most of the discomfort regarding the xlr pins hitting the collar bone was due to the heatshrink sleeving, which on my pair was about 1 1/2" in length. so i cut a big chunk of it off and now it is MUCH more comfortable. the headband also loosens up after a few days of wearing them too. 


I figured that was the case, so I did the same on my custom cable I made for my future LCD-2's.  Should be perfect hopefully.  
 

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