Audeze LCD-2 Orthos
May 27, 2010 at 2:06 AM Post #1,261 of 18,459


Quote:
The Wharfies totally killed the HD800 and Beyer T1.


Don't say totally if you only listen to one part of the audio spectrum.
 
I'm still interested how each note distincts itself from another tonally or by pitch. This would, in a real sense, make them "musical". Not interested in SRH840 or T1 type of one note samba.. :)
 
Anyways, was so tempted that I made the order. I guess resell value is still good if I don't like them..
 
May 27, 2010 at 2:08 AM Post #1,262 of 18,459
I was not the only one who held that opinion..but hey what the heck do I care. I was just glad my 40 year old modded ortho headphones topped out over the new age dynamics and only cut down by the LCD-2 to my ears.
 
Also, of the T1 and HD800, the T1 was clearly the headphone I would end up listening to if I was into the whole dynamic thing. This was again just a confirmation of the opinion I had formed since listening to them both on my rig.
 
Don's tuning on his ID1 was better of the two wharfies.
 
May 27, 2010 at 2:51 AM Post #1,263 of 18,459
I have been following this thread for a while. 
 
I am so taken with the looks if the LCD-2, happy about the pragmatic cable choice and use of mini XLR plugs, and appreciative of the obvious high quality construction that I went ahead and was placed on the pre-order list a few weeks ago.  I do not know what it is about this particular phone but it was the only one out of the recent flagship phones released recently that tempted me enough to add to my mostly Grado collection.  I know that it will not sound very much like the Grados, but I have high hopes for it.  I am betting that it does wonders for bands like Pink Floyd, Porcupine Tree, and Anathema.  I will be driving them with my Mapletree Ear+ HD Super Custom.  300mW into 39 Ohms should be around 200ish mW into 50 Ohms, correct?  Not enough for optimal power, but it is transformer coupled and has a <7 Ohm output, so I am hoping it gets the job done.
 
Having said this, I do have a few questions (apologize if any of these have already been asked prior):
 
1. If anyone here is a fan of harder music like Opeth-like death metal and Black Sabbath-like classic heavy metal, could you comment on the LCD-2s presentation of guitar tone and drum attack?  That is what attracts me to Grado, and I am curious how well it compares since I do have a large metal collection.
 
2. Are the earpads removable?
 
3. How long is the headphone cable?
 
4. How well does it handle dynamic transients?  The massive power handling and max SPL suggest that the driver is more robust than a typical dynamic transducer, but is there audible strain or distortion in passages like the 1812 Overture?
 
5. Are the pieces that attach the rods to the headband metal or plastic?  What about the grills?
 
6. Since so much is made about the bass response about the LCD-2, if anyone has experience, how well do these compare to the likes of the ATH L3000, PS-1, and other phones noted for great bass?  Subjectively speaking of course.
 
7. Finally, has anyone tried any good binaural recordings with these?  Something like Virtual Haircut, Sound Tracker (Gordon Hempton) recordings, or the first track from the Ultrasone sampler CD.  I would be interested in hearing how well they immerse the listener.
 
May 27, 2010 at 4:12 AM Post #1,264 of 18,459


 
Quote:
 





I'm anti bad wire and marketing strategies also, but I'm also anit BS and snake oil.  How do you figure this $425 cable fits into the sceme of things?
 
USG
 


x2. Is there anyone that make reasonable priced cables?
 
May 27, 2010 at 5:02 AM Post #1,265 of 18,459


Quote:
I was not the only one who held that opinion..but hey what the heck do I care. I was just glad my 40 year old modded ortho headphones topped out over the new age dynamics and only cut down by the LCD-2 to my ears.
 
Also, of the T1 and HD800, the T1 was clearly the headphone I would end up listening to if I was into the whole dynamic thing. This was again just a confirmation of the opinion I had formed since listening to them both on my rig.
 
Don's tuning on his ID1 was better of the two wharfies.

 
I'm sure you don't care, and that's good for you. :) I've read much praise for the wharfies and would like to hear them sometime.
 
To me the HD800s are a clear winner over the T1, mainly because they don't have a "house sound" and don't flatten the melodies so much. But I've yet to listen either of them through a Linn source and a proper clean amp. Mmm.
 
The He-5s are not really doing it for me. I have high hopes for the LCD-2. If they don't please, I'm going back to the trusty ol' 701/2s..
 
 
May 27, 2010 at 5:37 AM Post #1,266 of 18,459
Since the topic has come up multiple times and I haven't seen some of the following points brought up, I'd like to mention a few things.
 
The O2 is probably the WORST meet headphone ever.  Meets can be pretty difficult to form opinions on various gear because of the noise, time limit, mind exhaustion, and lack of proper approach to auditioning systems.  If you go to a meet without music you knew very well, your opinions mean close to nothing IMO.  You absolutely need to have reference to make comparisons.  The O2 has the following going against it (which is why I call it the worst meet headphone):
1. Very open design.  External noise does not get blocked out at all.  This is the same as many other headphones though, so it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone here.
2. Accurate soundstaging.  People want to be 'WOWd' at meets.  A huge soundstage is one sure fire way to impress somebody, but it's not accurate.
3. Upper mids/lower highs that aren't accentuated.  Again with the WOW factor.  Most headphones are tipped up in this frequency range, so people will hear some meaningless forks and knifes in a live Sinatra recording and call a headphone 'detailed' because it's being shoved in their face.  The sound is still there on the O2, it is just placed behind the music as it should be.
4. Lastly, and probably most critically, the O2 is a VERY picky headphone with regards to fit.  The only headphone in the same class in this regard is the Qualia.  You'd be surprised at how many people wear the O2's incorrectly at meets.  And who can blame them?  It's not exactly an automatic fitter like the R10.  There are even senior members here who wear the O2's incorrectly and thus don't get a complete seal around the ear, which is everything.  The thinner your face, the higher up you need to point the seems on the pads.  As a meet goes on, the pads can be rotated pretty off from one another.  I took my O2/717 to a local meet a year ago and many people loved it but there were a couple of people that didn't like it so much.  I took that same setup to two local meets a few months ago and made sure these times that people were wearing them correctly and some of those same people were floored by the O2/717.
 
The LCD2 has #1-3 going against it if the impressions so far are accurate, so I'm just saying don't be surprised if people aren't amazed by them at CanJam.  Expect lots of R10, HD800 and K1000 raving though.  This is also why you shouldn't look at meet impressions as very important.  
 
The most valuable impressions are by people who:
1. Have owned the gear for a while.
2. Have much experience with gear in the same or higher classes.
3. Don't rave about every new toy they get and don't exaggerate differences excessively.
 
No offense intended to anybody, but so far there is NOBODY in this thread that meet all three criteria simply because the LCD2 is still a new headphone.  FWIW, most don't even pass #2/#3 IMO. :p
 
You want to know how the LCD2 really stacks up?  Wait a couple more months.  The true impressions will start rolling out and we'll be able to better judge where the LCD2 stands at that time.  Has there ever been a new headphone that wasn't claimed to be better than multi thousand dollar systems near initial release only to be drastically less hyped half a year later?  
 
There's a reason the O2 is constantly mentioned as a standard when new flagships come out.  It has stood the test of time and is still extremely highly praised.  That's the sign of a great headphone.  A headphone that got released a day ago and is proclaimed as "better than the O2 that I heard at CanJam a year ago" is not.  Those types of impressions hold no water and are a disservice to the potential buyer.  People who own the O2 with a decent amp generally LOVE the combination as they get the proper experience to see what all the fuss is about.  That's the sign of a great headphone.  A headphone that people rant about during the first two months of ownership and later get bored with is not.
 
All that being said (sorry for the rant, this is my first serious post since HF remodeled, heh) I'm very interested in hearing the LCD2 and keep the impressions rolling in.  Just do us all a favor: keep a level head and give your review context (what headphones that you've OWNED recently/currently are you comparing the sound signature of the LCD2 to, mention if you're using a different amp, etc.).  Potential buyers, while I don't doubt the LCD2 are a very good headphone please keep in mind that virtually every headphone/gear that has come out in the last whatever years has been FOTM at some point.  Learn how to read reviews/impressions; the person and their experiences are much more important than fancy writing and hype inducing text will ever be.
 
May 27, 2010 at 6:10 AM Post #1,267 of 18,459

Quote:
The LCD2 has #1-3 going against it if the impressions so far are accurate, so I'm just saying don't be surprised if people aren't amazed by them at CanJam.  Expect lots of R10, HD800 and K1000 raving though.  This is also why you shouldn't look at meet impressions as very important.  

 
This I have stressed upon at least twice in this thread. 
 
The problem with respect to impressions on the LCD--2 from the orthoheads atleast, i believe lies in non-orthoheads, mainly majority of those who believe in electrostats like the O2 have no frame of reference whatsoever with respect to how good orthos can sound, while the opposite isn't necessarily true. When we acknowledge the technical superiority of an electrostat like the O2, but prefer the ortho sound, it is hard for folks used to electrostats or high end dynamics to comprehend our choices.
I know that being an orthohead I measure my yardsticks quite differently from those who listen to electrostats and dynamics..a reason why I haven't found one good electrostat or dynamic headphone that can keep me satisfied.Thus, the caveat in my review. I needed a full 40 hours of listening on the LCD-2s to come to my conclusion that they humbled my reference TPs. That was all the sign needed to realize that the LCD-2 was a special headphone indeed. What others make of my impressions, well i don't really care about that.
 
Also, the reason any flagship headphone that comes out is compared to the O2 is cause most flagship headphones coming out have been dynamics..this is the first true flagship orthos in close to 4 decades. Orthos were introduced to compete against electrostats way back in the 70s. Which headphone is better, is only a matter of personal choices.
 
May 27, 2010 at 6:17 AM Post #1,268 of 18,459

 
Quote:
Since the topic has come up multiple times and I haven't seen some of the following points brought up, I'd like to mention a few things.
 
The O2 is probably the WORST meet headphone ever.  Meets can be pretty difficult to form opinions on various gear because of the noise, time limit, mind exhaustion, and lack of proper approach to auditioning systems.  If you go to a meet without music you knew very well, your opinions mean close to nothing IMO.  You absolutely need to have reference to make comparisons.  The O2 has the following going against it (which is why I call it the worst meet headphone):
1. Very open design.  External noise does not get blocked out at all.  This is the same as many other headphones though, so it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone here.
2. Accurate soundstaging.  People want to be 'WOWd' at meets.  A huge soundstage is one sure fire way to impress somebody, but it's not accurate.
3. Upper mids/lower highs that aren't accentuated.  Again with the WOW factor.  Most headphones are tipped up in this frequency range, so people will hear some meaningless forks and knifes in a live Sinatra recording and call a headphone 'detailed' because it's being shoved in their face.  The sound is still there on the O2, it is just placed behind the music as it should be.
4. Lastly, and probably most critically, the O2 is a VERY picky headphone with regards to fit.  The only headphone in the same class in this regard is the Qualia.  You'd be surprised at how many people wear the O2's incorrectly at meets.  And who can blame them?  It's not exactly an automatic fitter like the R10.  There are even senior members here who wear the O2's incorrectly and thus don't get a complete seal around the ear, which is everything.  The thinner your face, the higher up you need to point the seems on the pads.  As a meet goes on, the pads can be rotated pretty off from one another.  I took my O2/717 to a local meet a year ago and many people loved it but there were a couple of people that didn't like it so much.  I took that same setup to two local meets a few months ago and made sure these times that people were wearing them correctly and some of those same people were floored by the O2/717.
 
The LCD2 has #1-3 going against it if the impressions so far are accurate, so I'm just saying don't be surprised if people aren't amazed by them at CanJam.  Expect lots of R10, HD800 and K1000 raving though.  This is also why you shouldn't look at meet impressions as very important.  
 
The most valuable impressions are by people who:
1. Have owned the gear for a while.
2. Have much experience with gear in the same or higher classes.
3. Don't rave about every new toy they get and don't exaggerate differences excessively.
 
No offense intended to anybody, but so far there is NOBODY in this thread that meet all three criteria simply because the LCD2 is still a new headphone.  FWIW, most don't even pass #2/#3 IMO. :p
 
You want to know how the LCD2 really stacks up?  Wait a couple more months.  The true impressions will start rolling out and we'll be able to better judge where the LCD2 stands at that time.  Has there ever been a new headphone that wasn't claimed to be better than multi thousand dollar systems near initial release only to be drastically less hyped half a year later?  
 
There's a reason the O2 is constantly mentioned as a standard when new flagships come out.  It has stood the test of time and is still extremely highly praised.  That's the sign of a great headphone.  A headphone that got released a day ago and is proclaimed as "better than the O2 that I heard at CanJam a year ago" is not.  Those types of impressions hold no water and are a disservice to the potential buyer.  People who own the O2 with a decent amp generally LOVE the combination as they get the proper experience to see what all the fuss is about.  That's the sign of a great headphone.  A headphone that people rant about during the first two months of ownership and later get bored with is not.
 
All that being said (sorry for the rant, this is my first serious post since HF remodeled, heh) I'm very interested in hearing the LCD2 and keep the impressions rolling in.  Just do us all a favor: keep a level head and give your review context (what headphones that you've OWNED recently/currently are you comparing the sound signature of the LCD2 to, mention if you're using a different amp, etc.).  Potential buyers, while I don't doubt the LCD2 are a very good headphone please keep in mind that virtually every headphone/gear that has come out in the last whatever years has been FOTM at some point.  Learn how to read reviews/impressions; the person and their experiences are much more important than fancy writing and hype inducing text will ever be.

X2
 
Totaly agree! So many fanboy posts, so few real comparisons...I'll wait for real impression after some months
 
 
May 27, 2010 at 9:15 AM Post #1,269 of 18,459

/rant on
There have been plenty of comparisons made here in this, and other LCD-2 threads.   Surprisingly, there are many who expend great amounts of energy jumping up and down crying snake oil, and they can't sound that good, etc, etc.  Shut up and listen.  Instead of displaying ignorance at the top of one's collective lungs, shut up and listen.  Go listen to a pair for yourselves.  Don't cry "snake oil" until you've heard for yourselves.  Then tell us what you've heard, and why you think such and such.  I've never in my life seen such a phenomenon, where people will argue till they're blue in the face, when they haven't even heard the thing they're bashing!  Unbelievable!   Ask all the questions you want, but don't cry fowl until you've tasted the chicken for yourself.
/rant off
 
May 27, 2010 at 9:22 AM Post #1,270 of 18,459


Quote:
x2. Is there anyone that make reasonable priced cables?


Reasonably priced cables?  Yeah, the ones that come with the headphones!  If you want to step up, you have to pay the price of admission.  There would be no greater waste of money than to buy a "reasonably" priced cable to replace the one that comes with the headphone in the first place, with something that doesn't sound any better!  What's the point?  If the sound improves, then you can make a value judgment.  If a replacement cable sounds no different, then it's a complete waste of money.
 
May 27, 2010 at 9:31 AM Post #1,272 of 18,459
Im on board, in on the waiting list for a LCD-2... future team ortho!  Hopefully it will live up to the hype.
smily_headphones1.gif

 
 
I will be, I guess custom making my own 4-pin cable for these as I assume it only comes with 1/4"?  Going to run it balance from my roc/ref5 combo in ACSS mode, should be bliss!
 
May 27, 2010 at 9:34 AM Post #1,273 of 18,459
/last rant on for now 
wink_face.gif

I personally do not believe it is wise to accept or nay say any product based upon its technology.  There are crappy sounding headphones on the market based upon virtually every technology that exists.  About the fact that the Stax O2 sounds great to most people who've seriously listened to it... well, it sounds good because it sounds good.  It's designers payed enough attention to the right things, so they ended up with a product that genuinely sounds good.  It doesn't sound good because it's an electrostat, it sounds good because it sounds good.  Such is the LCD-2.  It doesn't sound good because it's an ortho, it sounds good because it's designers payed enough attention to the right things.  Discussing the technology employed to reach that ultimate goal, is informative, instructional, enlightening, engaging, and fun for me, but let's never loose sight of what it's really all about...  If it sounds good, it is good.  The yardstick by which I measure sound reproduction, is by the reproduction of sound...  real life.
 
/last rant off for now 
wink_face.gif

 
May 27, 2010 at 9:35 AM Post #1,274 of 18,459


Quote:
Reasonably priced cables?  Yeah, the ones that come with the headphones!  If you want to step up, you have to pay the price of admission.  There would be no greater waste of money than to buy a "reasonably" priced cable to replace the one that comes with the headphone in the first place, with something that doesn't sound any better!  What's the point?  If the sound improves, then you can make a value judgment.  If a replacement cable sounds no different, then it's a complete waste of money.

 
 
if that replacement cable can remove the excess 5 feet of cable under my feet, well then its well worth it for me   .... regardless of any possible sound improvement   ......
 
 

 
 
May 27, 2010 at 9:37 AM Post #1,275 of 18,459


Quote:
Im on board, in on the waiting list for a LCD-2... future team ortho!  Hopefully it will live up to the hype. :)  I will be, I guess custom making my own 4-pin cable for these as I assume it only comes with 1/4"?  Going to run it balance from my roc/ref5 combo in ACSS mode, should be bliss!


The cable that comes with the LCD-2 is a four wire cable all the way to the TRS plug, so all you have to do is replace the plug.
 

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