Audeze LCD-2 Orthos

[kwkarth]

Quote:

 
kwkarth,
 
With all due respect, you are a mod here -your position is different when talking about products as I am sure you are all aware. People will call shenanigans if they feel someone with a status such as your own is not giving unbiased information or is sugar coating things. Whether or not that is the case is another story and one I do not want to be involved with, but I do enjoy your impressions and find them interesting.
 
 
Text, especially forum posts, is open to many interpretations. Instead of biting anyones head off who didn't read your comments the way you intended, you could just clarify and keeps things cool.
 
Having someone question your motives or how unbiased your comments are is indeed offensive, but in turn questioning their intelligence / mocking them is no better if not worse given your position... continuing to telling them off for doing what you just finished doing yourself is pretty inappropriate among other things if you ask me.
 
My 2 cents. 

Ok, I will let your post stand if it will help us get back on topic.  My defense was not of the product, or myself, as much as it was/is a defense of the facts.  
 
Sharing of my opinions and impressions are done as a contributor to and enthusiast of this forum.  
 
It's not about just this product or just any other.  When someone makes a statement that is untrue, the record should be set straight for everyone's benefit.  It's not about the people involved, it's about the subject matter being discussed.
 
I apologize to all concerning my untoward behavior.  Can we get back on topic now?  Thx!
 

 

[BoilermakerFan]

Quote:

I'm not sure I agree with your assessment.  Unless I missed a post, the only ones that claim the LCD-2 are as good or better than Stax are people who don't really like Stax to begin with.  I would really like to hear more direct comparisons.  That being said, I'm trying to figure out how to buy me a pair.  I have no doubt they are worth every bit of $1000, but I'm not convinced that they are better than a $7500 Stax setup.  But again, they won't be $7500.

I think you missed the point of my post.  I look at the value of the total system, it's performance, and it's flexibility relative to the cost.  I do not believe the most expensive system is the best though I could easily spec a $93,000 Redbook system for the LCD-2s.  The same system with the O2s would be $98,000.  Could we all hear the difference between it and a $7000 LCD-2 setup?  Probably.  But the value isn't there for me so I'd never spend it, even if I had it to spend.  $90,000 puts a lot of coats on kids in the winter and feeds a lot of homeless people...
 
My point was looking at the value of a system that can approach a best in class Stax system, or better yet, where's the Orpheus comparisons people?  C'mon now, let's raise the bar higher yet.  

   Even if the LCD-2s were only 85% as good as the O2s on a BHSE or Woo system, the fact that the same amp for the LCD-2 can drive other dynamic cans (I have a couple pairs left too) and possibly speakers (I like to share the music with all my friends at a party) tips the LCD-2 system over the O2 system in my book.  But that's just my opinion and my reasoning when selecting a system. 
 

 

[monsieurguzel]

I totally agree with your logic of value of system vs. performance and it's always good to have a good balance.  Granted some people will definately spend ridiculous amounts of money for that last 5% (which is also a floating target moving up).  From what I'm reading though, it seems that the LCD-2 on a good amp is a whole lot better than 85% of a good O2 system...where some actually prefer it given a choice.  Also, as sachu mentioned, the O2+BHSE isn't the end all be all system for many.  Some prefer dynamics by far, some prefer orthos....they all have their strengths and weaknesses....which is what makes a versatile amp which can drive multiple headphones more interesting than a BHSE+O2 combo.
 
Every time I read impressions from people going to meets or Canjam, I don't always see people gushing over the BHSE / WES setup as the only setup they would want given an unlimited budget.  Many people prefer HD800s with a great tube amp (Woo5 / Balancing Act / 307A) over a high end Stax system.  I've learned over the years though that once you reach that level, you really are splitting hairs between systems and they are all world class....its just a matter of taste and preference of music.  For me personally, I didn't get all that blown away by the O2 + KGSS setup that I have compared to my Woo5+HD800s...either in terms of detail retrieval, speed, or impacts.  They definitely have their strengths and weaknesses but I wouldn't call the O2 and HD800 killer by any means.
 
Quote:

I think you missed the point of my post.  I look at the value of the total system, it's performance, and it's flexibility relative to the cost.  I do not believe the most expensive system is the best though I could easily spec a $93,000 Redbook system for the LCD-2s.  The same system with the O2s would be $98,000.  Could we all hear the difference between it and a $7000 LCD-2 setup?  Probably.  But the value isn't there for me so I'd never spend it, even if I had it to spend.  $90,000 puts a lot of coats on kids in the winter and feeds a lot of homeless people...
 
My point was looking at the value of a system that can approach a best in class Stax system, or better yet, where's the Orpheus comparisons people?  C'mon now, let's raise the bar higher yet.  

   Even if the LCD-2s were only 85% as good as the O2s on a BHSE or Woo system, the fact that the same amp for the LCD-2 can drive other dynamic cans (I have a couple pairs left too) and possibly speakers (I like to share the music with all my friends at a party) tips the LCD-2 system over the O2 system in my book.  But that's just my opinion and my reasoning when selecting a system. 
 

 

[sachu]

^^ could'nt have said it better.  

 
Going to get to listen to the LCD-2 tonight at 32 Ohm Audio. Ken's having a little get together and am curios to see where my Wharfedale Isodynamic is vis a vis the LCD-2. Also will get to hear the LCD-2 with Ken's ALO cable. 

 

[Equus]

Getting to hear the LCD-2 again seems to be on the front of your mind, sachu.  Sounds almost like withdrawal. 

 

[sachu]

bah..I am hating to have to make a decision whether to put off buying the LCD-2 for another 2-3 months and pay my tuitions or to buy the LCD-2 and take on more student loans, Especially with the TPs out on loan for atleast another month 
 

 

[tisb0b]

Quote:

bah..I am hating to have to make a decision whether to put off buying the LCD-2 for another 2-3 months and pay my tuitions or to buy the LCD-2 and take on more student loans, Especially with the TPs out on loan for atleast another month 
 

 

Didn't you just order the HE-5LE's?

 

[sachu]

Nope..bought the HE-5 that Alan was basically giving away in that big fire sale he had.. plan to tune it out when i receive it.
 

 

[pyramid6]

Quote:

I totally agree with your logic of value of system vs. performance and it's always good to have a good balance.  Granted some people will definately spend ridiculous amounts of money for that last 5% (which is also a floating target moving up).  From what I'm reading though, it seems that the LCD-2 on a good amp is a whole lot better than 85% of a good O2 system...where some actually prefer it given a choice.  Also, as sachu mentioned, the O2+BHSE isn't the end all be all system for many.  Some prefer dynamics by far, some prefer orthos....they all have their strengths and weaknesses....which is what makes a versatile amp which can drive multiple headphones more interesting than a BHSE+O2 combo.
 
Every time I read impressions from people going to meets or Canjam, I don't always see people gushing over the BHSE / WES setup as the only setup they would want given an unlimited budget.  Many people prefer HD800s with a great tube amp (Woo5 / Balancing Act / 307A) over a high end Stax system.  I've learned over the years though that once you reach that level, you really are splitting hairs between systems and they are all world class....its just a matter of taste and preference of music.  For me personally, I didn't get all that blown away by the O2 + KGSS setup that I have compared to my Woo5+HD800s...either in terms of detail retrieval, speed, or impacts.  They definitely have their strengths and weaknesses but I wouldn't call the O2 and HD800 killer by any means.
 

 

I didn't miss your point.  I agree.  My point is that there are not a lot of direct comparisons to a good Stax system.  Ok, so the O2 with a KGBH or WES isn't the best, my mistake for bringing it up.  How about the LCD-2 compared to any Stax, I have only read one person who claims they have both at the same time.  And they claim that the LCD-2 is better.  That is great that is what I want to hear.  But the vast majority of LCD-2 comparisons to Stax have been from memory, or by people who admittedly prefer orthos to everything else.
 
I appreciate all the response to my questions, I look forward to hearing more impressions.

 

[immtbiker]

Quote:

Thanks for explaining it to me kwarth. I guess the P1-u will drive most phones without problems, apart for the K1000 of course.

A little off-topic, but I'm not sure if the LCD-2 is easier to drive than the HE-5(LE), but my P-1 drives the HE-5(LE)'s effortlessly. 
With the K1000 single ended, even maxxed out, the P-1 is definitely not the right amp for the 1000's. Nor is the EF-5.
The K1K's are a different beast.
 

 

[SoupRKnowva]

if it helps pyramid, i understand your question and feel the same way. Im curious if the LCD-2 with a great amp, can beat the O2 with the BHSE, as regardless of price, if i felt the O2 was better and i bought the lcd-2 i would always just be thinking of how much better the other was, im looking for an endgame with this desktop purchase. But luckily im going to canjam so hopefully we'll get to thoroughly compare the O2 w/BHSE to the LCD-2 on this fancy new liquid gold thingymajigger that boilermaker is bringing. it should be a good time. Though we'll need a good source too, maybe we can borrow a Ref1/7 or the DA2002 from lavry 

 

[Equus]

Quote:

bah..I am hating to have to make a decision whether to put off buying the LCD-2 for another 2-3 months and pay my tuitions or to buy the LCD-2 and take on more student loans, Especially with the TPs out on loan for atleast another month 
 

Yup.  Withdrawal...definitely.
 
Ya know what the fiscally responsible person would say.  Ya also know what the head-fier would say.  ^_^
 
I just had to convince myself today to continue with my budget to pay off credit card debt and wait until my next stock vesting in October before upgrading my amp and dac, so while I'm not as much of an enthusiast as you are, I can empathize.  I started giving some serious thought about figuring out maybe how to fit a vintage amp in my bedroom, but unless I shove it under my bed I'm pretty much tapped on decent space.  Heh.

 

[BoilermakerFan]

Quote:

I didn't miss your point.  I agree.  My point is that there are not a lot of direct comparisons to a good Stax system.  Ok, so the O2 with a KGBH or WES isn't the best, my mistake for bringing it up.  How about the LCD-2 compared to any Stax, I have only read one person who claims they have both at the same time.  And they claim that the LCD-2 is better.  That is great that is what I want to hear.  But the vast majority of LCD-2 comparisons to Stax have been from memory, or by people who admittedly prefer orthos to everything else.
 
I appreciate all the response to my questions, I look forward to hearing more impressions.

 
I just don't think there are enough O2/BHSE type of listeners who have dropped $1K on the LCD-2s to see (or hear) if they are as good or better than their current system. 

 
CanJam will be a very telling time.  At the Cavalli Audio booth we'll have two eXStatAs with SR-Lambdas and HE60s.  There will be two SS Liquid Golds, one SE, one Balanced with the LCD-2s and HD800s there.  There may be a set of HE5LEs too.  The Liquid Fire is a SE hybrid design that will also be unveiled.  In addition, I am bringing my SR-001s and if I can find a 003 cable, they be run off the eXStatAs.  I will bring my SRD6 to see how well the SR-Lambda/SRD6 sounds off the balanced LG with a really good balanced source feeding it too. 
 
I really like my SR-Lambdas with the SRD6 off of my vintage CR-620 receiver which is only 35W, so I'll wait to see how the SRD6 does with only 15W. 
 

 

[Equus]

You know, looking at ebay listings of the CR-620, they look really familiar.  I think my dad had a similar model when I was a kid.  I should ask to see if my family still has it to check.
 
But now I'm getting obsessive with these headphones.  I'd better go get a breather before I talk myself out of paying off debt again.  lol

 

[achristilaw]

 
Quote:

I have both, and I can tell you they are definitely in the same league. They even have a somewhat simalar sound signature.
My LCD2 arrived only today, so it is too early for a more detailed comparison, but I can tell you that the hype is not exagerated this time.
 

Amen, have the gear in place to make them sing and the rewards are ample. Stat's, for me, have never had the foundation of music served (read: Bass) as other driver types IMO (the Audez'e can move serious air). I listen to demanding material, like large scale Orchestral works and Organ pieces. With these you can have the proverbial "cake and eat it too"!
 
But it ain't by Bass alone that sets these apart!
 
You can argue a specific stat and specific amp for comparable performance...but at what cost? You still lose the last usable octave! I have had these only two weeks (from Saturday)...and I'm still enthralled (so much so, I can do without the 800).
 
BUT, I can't make a value judgment for anyone on this vs. that. You won't use the same gear, or listen to the same Music and then after combining those, make the same value judgment's. 
 
I will forecast from now, till well after Can-Jam, this will be very hard to get!!!