Electronics guys... we have our plusses and minuses. With advent of digital everything, we're being phased out
Joined
Sep 30, 2001
Posts
10,307
Likes
100
As a known affectionado of the K1K, and having lived with mine for many years, and as being one of the very first to successfully mate an external sub with the K1K, I feel I'm qualified to speak about them to a degree.
The K1000 was a completely revolutionary design in many ways, back in the day. Even today, with the design being what, some 30 years old, they still accomplish some things that other headphones do not.
Overall, they are physically unable to even approach the performance envelope capability of the LCD-2. Laws of physics, and all that...
Many mistake "speed" and HF extension for a peak in the response curve. Look at the published curves for the K1K. It's as flat as a ruler above 2k. This means, for those of you who understand HRTF and the distinction between near field and free field response contours, that the K1K's actually have a 10dB PEAK in their response above 2k.
Being dynamic drivers with a relatively massive diaphragm and weak magnetic structure, they physically cannot compare to a well designed current generation stat or planar magnetic driver.
Anyway, the K1K's were truly SOTA headphones in their day, but their day has come and gone. RIP
I can whole-heartedly agree with this. Personally, stuff either grows stale for me sometimes or are just plain out surpassed by new stuff. And really, it's all so subjective that it's all in the ears anyway. I was mostly pointed in this direction after the meet where I met folks from Seattle and Portland and listened to a bunch of stuff. I found some common aesthetics in our praise and criticism of some of the high end stuff we heard, and so I have a decent shot at agreeing with them on LCD-2's...or other headphones. It's still no guarantee, but I hope it's a more informed risk.
Going off in another direction, I spent a little more time with the LCD-2's last night while I was ripping some new CDs. I will be very interested to hear what adjustments are feasible on the treble, though I will really need to wait to hear them on another rig to see how my ears hear things. When I put my LCD-2's away for the night and was quickly listening to music with my ATH-A700 there was some major aural recalibration my brain needed, let me tell you. The presentation is pretty easy on the LCD-2's on my equipment, so it doesn't jump out in my face and yell its strengths to the skies. Then switching to such a different headphone as the A700 made me appreciate what the LCD-2 does in a different way.
Favorite amps for the K1K are foo_me's zanden amp and voltron's Moth Audio 300B amps. Neither are going to be as good as is possible since both aren't impedance matched nor designed specifically for the K1K. If you use resistors to better match impedance (Which wasn't done when I had heard either with the amps) performance theoretically should improve. Better can be done, but probably requires a custom design from someone with some serious chops and some familiarity with the headphone. deepak has heard them through his friend's custom amp with lundahl iron and interesting high performance tubes (Not your usual 6sn7 driving 300b shlock) that probalby is up there as well, but I haven't heard it.
I'd say for about 5-10k in parts you can create the ideal k1k amp depending on how pricey you want to go with iron/chassis and how rare and esoteric you want to go with tubes. You could probably do a fricken great job with 1-2k in parts non including chassis/tubes. Neither option makes sense for me at this time though it would if I had high efficiency speakers of similar impedance that I could drive with the same amp, but I don't.
As far as LCD-2. Well I think my balancing act and solid state are both pretty good. The balancing act is transformer coupled and will do good with anything down to 32 ohms. The solid state performs well with any load. But none of this stuff is the BEST BEST out there for anything. The dynafet and a few other solid state diy projects edge out barely my dynamid and dynahi... and there are better diy tube amp designs out there than the balancing act that I've heard about. Better in a theoretical standpoint not an observed standpoint. And also you can take fancier designs and chose parts that better match the LCD-2. I could have my amps that I own now tweaked in that manner, but I won't.
I'd say what I have and how commercially available it is I'd say what I have is about as good as it gets. TTVJ 307A is good. ZDT is good. Beta22 is pretty good. That moon audio lundahl iron amp is probably pretty good. GS-X which basically is what my balanced reference is pretty good. That's about all that I'd even look at from commercial makers. There are some exceptions where some speaker/audio company makes a 1 off, but those things always seem overpriced to me because you pay for the 1 offness. You don't get the bulk parts price breaks trickled down to you. Still, expensive as they are some of them are great. For anything better and of better value you are going to have to make friends with a skilled DIYer/Designer and then mooch free labor and find someone that is good at sourcing unobtanium transistors, passive parts and tubes.
I listened to every headphone at RMAF 2009 - every. It took me about 30 seconds to realize that the Audeze LCD-2 headphones were by far and away the best ones I had listened to in the last hour or so. So, when I read the very serious and well-written reviews I had to chuckle, because that 30 seconds was worth thousands of words.
I can't imagine how anyone could feel any differently. Maybe I need to listen to more Orthos?
Two things I noticed tonight while puttering around with the headphones plugged into my computer via the Forte's headphone hack. I found my first sharp "ack" moment while listening to a low bitrate copy of "Tsuki no Uta" by Gackt. There's a part where there are guitars in the background and there was a shrill high tone which might either be the pick hitting the string oddly or an artifact because it's a low bit-rate file. Interesting that I've never heard anything like that before. Later, while listening to "Walking Through the Empty Age" from Texhnolyze I noticed I could hear...almost feel...the acoustic guitar resonate. There was also beautiful impact when the hand drums joined in while I clearly noticed some chimes in the background that I never knew were there. I know it's practically cliched to say I noticed things in the recordings that I haven't before, and I'm rock solid sure the HD800 would have let me notice most of these things too, but there it is. Or there it was. Yeah.
Aaah the joys of coming home from work to "relax" and catch up with the community buzz. LOL
I thought Icarium's initial post was describing the HD800 until I read an old codger's response. "Juvenile feeding frenzy" - thanks for the smiles Frank. A point well made however, rashness and reason should prevail. I have always felt that the ortho thread was at least one sanctuary from the frenzy where reason and the quest prevailed. I make no qualms about the fact that few dynamics get me excited, I have heard most if not all of the top dynamics and some I feel are justly on top, others not. The voicing on an ortho is however different and it is not for all. There are folk who have owned many vintage ortho's and moved on to other pastures. I have spent enough time on terra firma to appreciate that the grass is not greener on the other side, just different and if you are adaptable enough, you can find peace wherever you find yourself. Too philosophical? Well , I can enjoy my son's KSC75's or Denon's happily while spending time with him but I would not necessarily choose them above my home reference HP's ( the very first ortho ever made = Wharfedale ID1 , albeit highly modified ) . Are there specific aspects of the ID1 that I prefer over the LCD2 - yes, do I prefer the ID1 over the LCD2 , no .
I think I have said this before - the LCD2 takes many if not most of the virtues of the vintage orthodynamics and neatly bundles it into one package.
I don't believe in a "Best" headphone ( Icarium made mention of this too ) but rather one that suites an individuals listening preferences AND this too is not a static phenomenon.
If you like a very hot top end (all the time and not only when the music demands it) then the LCD2 may not be the one for you, or you could roll up your sleeves and start tuning it to suite your preferences perfectly. Make no mistake - I will be playing with the damping on this headphone, not because I think it needs it but because I want to see what it can do. It is the ortho way [ as is it the stax way - not sure how many of the staxmafia have left their phones stock ]
This forum, by design will make you jaded! We all have opinions and aren't afraid to voice them. But, who do you listen too? The one that yells the loudest? The one with the same taste's in Music? The one who has the same/similar gear you have? The one who exhibits the most passion?
Most of the members serious about Music, and the associated gear aren't prolific posters. They are busy with music discovery's and seek satisfaction that way. They have taken the time and invested years on self education to achieve their goals. The road is long and rocky, twice I sold off everything in two channel just for a respit of a year or more. Only to re-evaluate and start again with more specific goals.
The first three years here I lurked mostly...trying to get a handle on quality Headphone playback. I came to the consensus that no one individual was an oracle of knowledge. Headphones, until just lately, have been an accessory. Not thought of as serious playback potential by the Audio media at large. I was thinking that way until the 800, and was ready to hang up the headphones and be content with two channel playback.
But just lately, some bonafied Flagship releases. Some are ULTRA gear sensitive (the 800). Some are simply a re-hashing (and re-package) and are overpriced. And some advance an existing technology and allow it to enter mainstream (Audez'e). Not one is perfect. And yes, the jade brigade has to weigh everything with a big salt lick!
The most disturbing of the latest "disturbing trends". People purchasing a Flagship from any vendor with no Home gear in place whatsoever. You can't ask "what were they thinking?" because no thought was involved. Save perhaps a short-cut to disillusionment and the poor house!
The loss of upper-most high frequency detail (and prominence) in the Audez'e is real. But the presentation holistically is very good (excellent with better gear) and is true to itself. It will not re-place my 800, but will compliment it. I love the Audez'e while listening and don't have and urge to switch to another phone when it's on the Head. That's a good accolade for me! AND it likes (and flat loves some) a variety of associated gear. Been listening with the lowly Auditor all day...the damn phone loves the pairing! Clean, clear, quick and some stomping dynamics.....It (the amps) slightly tilted top is a compliment here!
I can't wait for the balanced cable, I have the compliment pig-tail for Home amp pairing. I would love to drink in the 45 output tube of the Moth with these....hm-mmmmm...
If you like a very hot top end (all the time and not only when the music demands it) then the LCD2 may not be the one for you, or you could roll up your sleeves and start tuning it to suite your preferences perfectly. Make no mistake - I will be playing with the damping on this headphone, not because I think it needs it but because I want to see what it can do. It is the ortho way [ as is it the stax way - not sure how many of the staxmafia have left their phones stock ]
Well Donald, you can experiment with various methods to actuate the high frequencies...but wouldn't that simultaneously alter another aspect of frequency, elsewhere in the domain? That would be paramount toward criminal activity Brother. Where most of the Music lives...it's (the Audez'e) real darn good!
You mentioned high-hat cymbal...not the only thing effected. The AIR surrounding of the last "tink" of the Steinway or "eek" of a Guarnieri or last breath of the flute is affected. BUT, when listening I can forgive that! Some of us will not! The lack of hash (from poor program material or cheap digital) does make for long listening sessions. I can also forgive the bags under my eyes from those mentioned long listening sessions.
I elaborated when I wrote the first impression of my caveat, that was due to the lack of extension and sparkle from the very dynamic Soprano I spoke of, that's still valid! I revisited the recording last eve'...and it's so close (with slight compression)...darn!
I encourage folks to gravitate toward these and have a listen for themselves. I bet they are on the highlight reel for many a CanJammer!
Well Donald, you can experiment with various methods to actuate the high frequencies...but wouldn't that simultaneously alter another aspect of frequency, elsewhere in the domain? That would be paramount toward criminal activity Brother. Where most of the Music lives...it's (the Audez'e) real darn good!
You mentioned high-hat cymbal...not the only thing effected. The AIR surrounding of the last "tink" of the Steinway or "eek" of a Guarnieri or last breath of the flute is affected. BUT, when listening I can forgive that! Some of us will not! The lack of hash (from poor program material or cheap digital) does make for long listening sessions. I can also forgive the bags under my eyes from those mentioned long listening sessions.
I elaborated when I wrote the first impression of my caveat, that was due to the lack of extension and sparkle from the very dynamic Soprano I spoke of, that's still valid! I revisited the recording last eve'...and it's so close (with slight compression)...darn!
I encourage folks to gravitate toward these and have a listen for themselves. I bet they are on the highlight reel for many a CanJammer!
This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
[ as is it the stax way - not sure how many of the staxmafia have left their phones stock ]
