Audeze LCD-2 Orthos
May 14, 2010 at 8:09 AM Post #856 of 18,459
Icarium, thanks for taking the time to put down your thoughts on K1000 amps. I have the Mactone MA-300B which I think will work pretty well with the K1000 for now.
I have some monoblocks in the works for my home setup I will try with phones when the arrive, and also there is a new APL hybrid headphone amp in the coming.
 
My hope is that what amp works well with the K1000 will also work well with the LCD-2.
Seeing that Frank Cooter has an amp that works for K1000(120Ohm) as well as HE5(32Ohm) I dont think impedance should be an issue?
 


 
Quote:
Favorite amps for the K1K are foo_me's zanden amp and voltron's Moth Audio 300B amps. Neither are going to be as good as is possible since both aren't impedance matched nor designed specifically for the K1K. If you use resistors to better match impedance (Which wasn't done when I had heard either with the amps) performance theoretically should improve. Better can be done, but probably requires a custom design from someone with some serious chops and some familiarity with the headphone. deepak has heard them through his friend's custom amp with lundahl iron and interesting high performance tubes (Not your usual 6sn7 driving 300b shlock) that probalby is up there as well, but I haven't heard it.
 
I'd say for about 5-10k in parts you can create the ideal k1k amp depending on how pricey you want to go with iron/chassis and how rare and esoteric you want to go with tubes. You could probably do a fricken great job with 1-2k in parts non including chassis/tubes. Neither option makes sense for me at this time though it would if I had high efficiency speakers of similar impedance that I could drive with the same amp, but I don't.
 
As far as LCD-2. Well I think my balancing act and solid state are both pretty good. The balancing act is transformer coupled and will do good with anything down to 32 ohms. The solid state performs well with any load. But none of this stuff is the BEST BEST out there for anything. The dynafet and a few other solid state diy projects edge out barely my dynamid and dynahi... and there are better diy tube amp designs out there than the balancing act that I've heard about. Better in a theoretical standpoint not an observed standpoint. And also you can take fancier designs and chose parts that better match the LCD-2. I could have my amps that I own now tweaked in that manner, but I won't.
 
I'd say what I have and how commercially available it is I'd say what I have is about as good as it gets. TTVJ 307A is good. ZDT is good. Beta22 is pretty good. That moon audio lundahl iron amp is probably pretty good. GS-X which basically is what my balanced reference is pretty good. That's about all that I'd even look at from commercial makers. There are some exceptions where some speaker/audio company makes a 1 off, but those things always seem overpriced to me because you pay for the 1 offness. You don't get the bulk parts price breaks trickled down to you. Still, expensive as they are some of them are great. For anything better and of better value you are going to have to make friends with a skilled DIYer/Designer and then mooch free labor and find someone that is good at sourcing unobtanium transistors, passive parts and tubes.



 
May 14, 2010 at 9:15 AM Post #857 of 18,459


Quote:
..but wouldn't that simultaneously alter another aspect of frequency, elsewhere in the domain? That would be paramount toward criminal activity Brother. Where most of the Music lives...it's (the Audez'e) real darn good!.......What they do right isn't forgettable!


Hey Alan - had typed up a reply last night then firefox crashed so an abbreviated version now.
 
 
The drivers are damped , why be afraid to try something slightly different? The cat may be killed but curiosity drives discovery. I have a pretty good feel for damping orthos and whatever is done, can always be reversed without ill effect. I am just curious to see where it will go..dB
 
May 14, 2010 at 9:42 AM Post #858 of 18,459
I just got an email saying mine will ship Monday.  Really looking forward to hearing these.  I was toying with buying some Stax, but hope that these will scratch that itch for me instead, as they are a better fit for the rest of my existing gear.
 
May 14, 2010 at 9:49 AM Post #859 of 18,459
 
Quote:
Hey Alan - had typed up a reply last night then firefox crashed so an abbreviated version now.
 
 
The drivers are damped , why be afraid to try something slightly different? The cat may be killed but curiosity drives discovery. I have a pretty good feel for damping orthos and whatever is done, can always be reversed without ill effect. I am just curious to see where it will go..dB


Damp them suckers, nothing is perfect until you make it fit your ears! Thats the ortho motto.
ph34r.gif

 
Take good pictures while you are at it....
 
May 14, 2010 at 12:06 PM Post #860 of 18,459


Quote:
I just got an email saying mine will ship Monday.  Really looking forward to hearing these.  I was toying with buying some Stax, but hope that these will scratch that itch for me instead, as they are a better fit for the rest of my existing gear.


Awesome Skylab!  Looking forward to hearing your impressions, especially with the Concerto since it's in my general budget range.
 
By the way, I emailed Audez'e about some scratches on the grills that were bugging me but nowhere near deal breakers.  Dunno if it was in the assembly or packing process, and they are entirely cosmetic.  I've scratched myself worse installing video cards in my computer, after all.  Thought I'd send an email anyway though, and received an email to send pics of the grills to them which I'll do when I get home from work.  Ironic thing is that while I'm an absolute n00b when it comes to electronics, I've assembled plastic and resin models for 25 or so years, so even if they can't do anything about it, I'm reasonably confident that I'll be able to make them far less noticeable on my own.
 
May 14, 2010 at 12:47 PM Post #861 of 18,459
 I think the rear plates are anodized. It might do them good to have the plates powder coated instead.
 
Or just see if using a permanent marker will blend in nicely in covering up the scratches. Would suggest testing this first.
 
May 14, 2010 at 2:20 PM Post #863 of 18,459


Quote:
From the way you guys describe the LCD-2, the closest thing which I've ever heard and can compare it to is Stax SR-404LE. Am I correct in this assessment?


IMHO, the 404's are FAR more colored in their presentation, and further have an upper mid glare and lack depth of bass all compared to the LCD-2's.  So, I hear the LCD-2's  as being far more neutral, transparent, and substantive than the 404s.
 
May 14, 2010 at 2:22 PM Post #864 of 18,459
BTW, 'been playing with some of my amps today and am finding the RSA SR-71 (original version) to be a great match with the LCD-2's.
 
May 14, 2010 at 3:36 PM Post #865 of 18,459
What type of amps would you recommend for them single stage or tubes? I have auditor, and Goldpoint... The auditor I don´t have yet it´s on its way but I suspect they are in the same neutral and transparent school.
 
 
 
 
May 14, 2010 at 3:52 PM Post #866 of 18,459


Quote:
 I think the rear plates are anodized. It might do them good to have the plates powder coated instead.
 
Or just see if using a permanent marker will blend in nicely in covering up the scratches. Would suggest testing this first.


Good call, thanks. I'll see what they say when I send pics, then muck about a little.
 
May 14, 2010 at 4:48 PM Post #867 of 18,459


 
Quote:
You claim to perceive a "lack of extension" in these headphones.  If that is true, do you mind telling me where the rolloff begins?
Thx,
k

 


The frequency "overview" drops after 2K. Just in the area where the extension reaches and would morph into AIR surrounding an instrument. It's above most vocals (save Sondra) and isn't noticeable there (why typical vocalists sound as great). Brass or Woodwinds don't stay very long at the outer-rim, and are wondrous because of this. Most percussion...again not a problem.
 
 A flat phone, or any other transducer, is unbearable. TOO DAMN BRIGHT! The Audez'e is relaxed and rearranges the high-frequency slant. I DON"T WANT MINE TOUCHED! I kind of like the difference and understand. It's flat where it Matters! I can hear cleanly the body of the Violin...just not the outermost reaches of air that make a lustrous finish.
 
We are spoiled children aren't we? I think dwelling on it is a disservice to the phone at large. A gift like this...and still we bitch!
 
 
May 14, 2010 at 4:53 PM Post #868 of 18,459


Quote:
 

The frequency "overview" drops after 2K. Just in the area where the extension reaches and would morph into AIR surrounding an instrument. It's above most vocals (save Sondra) and isn't noticeable there (why typical vocalists sound as great). Brass or Woodwinds don't stay very long at the outer-rim, and are wondrous because of this. Most percussion...again not a problem.
 
 A flat phone, or any other transducer, is unbearable. TOO DAMN BRIGHT! The Audez'e is relaxed and rearranges the high-frequency slant. I DON"T WANT MINE TOUCHED! I kind of like the difference and understand. It's flat where it Matters! I can hear cleanly the body of the Violin...just not the outermost reaches of air that make a lustrous finish.
 
We are spoiled children aren't we? I think dwelling on it is a disservice to the phone at large. A gift like this...and still we bitch!
 


I hope this is what I hear. I find most headphones today just pronounce trebles, real life to me is not the same like those trebly bright headphones. So the clear extended treble is good, but I want it the way you describe the Audez'e is doing.

Man the wait is killin me. Lol
 
May 14, 2010 at 5:07 PM Post #870 of 18,459


Quote:
 

The frequency "overview" drops after 2K. Just in the area where the extension reaches and would morph into AIR surrounding an instrument. It's above most vocals (save Sondra) and isn't noticeable there (why typical vocalists sound as great). Brass or Woodwinds don't stay very long at the outer-rim, and are wondrous because of this. Most percussion...again not a problem.
 
 A flat phone, or any other transducer, is unbearable. TOO DAMN BRIGHT! The Audez'e is relaxed and rearranges the high-frequency slant. I DON"T WANT MINE TOUCHED! I kind of like the difference and understand. It's flat where it Matters! I can hear cleanly the body of the Violin...just not the outermost reaches of air that make a lustrous finish.
 
We are spoiled children aren't we? I think dwelling on it is a disservice to the phone at large. A gift like this...and still we bitch!
 


My initial reaction to your posts in this regard was to remark that you seem to lack a fundamental understanding of necessary headphone response contouring, but after more careful consideration and rereading your post several times, I think you saying you attribute what you're hearing to what you see in the FR graph.  I'm not sure that's so, but it may be.  Can you show me a FR graph of a can whose sound you do like more?  Let's see if we can narrow down the particular frequencies that you hear missing.  Are you hearing any of the fundamentals missing, or is it all upper harmonics?  Some of the most beautiful woodwinds I've heard on the LCD-2.
 
I propose we are so used to hearing artificially accentuated high mids, that when we hear something which is essentially neutral, it's not what we're expecting, and our brains complain to us that it is not natural.  What do you think?
 

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