[MrGreen]

Quote:

Regarding soundstage, imaging and the purity of the frequencies, it depends radically on your associated gear.
 
I heard the LCD2 from a Leben CS600, and (from memory) it was certainly miles ahead of my old O2Mk2 rig (which included the KGSS for a couple of weeks), and killed anything else I'd heard before.
 
I'd be interested to hear Mr Green's opinion after having heard the same setup. And I don't mean that cynically.
 
If you have a good amp, the imaging on the 2s is simply amazing.  Easily as good as the O2 IMO.

 
Next time I'm in melb, I'll drop you a line.
 
My gf went to study at Umelb recently.

 

[Duckman]

We're having a meet on Jan 8 if you're in town.

 

[MrGreen]

Quote:

We're having a meet on Jan 8 if you're in town.

Not a chance, unfortunately. I'm poor after slashing out on stax and I need to start saving for uni books.

 

[pp312]

Quote:

Too much decay, not enough treble, too small a soundstage, compare to what? There maybe headphones that have more decay, more treble, or bigger soundstage, doesn't mean that they are more accurate. The LCD-2s may not sound like loudspeakers, so? Loudspeakers don't sound like real life anyway. The sound from loudspeakers and headphones will never be 100% the same as the real instruments, and even the best microphones in the world can not capture sound 100% as real life. Reference equipments don't sound like real life, but they are there to represent a standard, a standard to judge other equipments by, they are not meant to be better or worse, just like the Pantone Chart, a calibrated LED monitor or a light box with a 'daylight' color temperature. When one goes into the control room of the Abbey Road studio, he doesn't need to check out if the main reference monitors sound 'neutral' or not, because they are supposed to be calibrated as standard. The LCD-2s are not perfect but for headphones, they are the closest thing yet to a pair of reference monitors and what can be heard in the control room. To say they sound better or worse than another pair of headphones is like saying the red color of my car is better than your Pantone Red, or my Type R print looks better than your transparency on a light box. Every record is mixed differently, some have more treble, some have more bass, but almost every album that has been mixed to be pressed on vinyl will be bass light and sibilance free comparing to most records mixed as CDs because of the limitations of vinyl records. It's a bit confusing to say headphone 'A's have recessed treble as it doesn't really mean anything, because maybe the recording was intended to have recessed treble? I personally would refer the LCD-2s as the standard. For instant, the HD800s are treble heavy, but that doesn't mean they are bad, in fact I think that sound signature is great for listening to classical music because they bring the listener sonically closer to the musicians and instrument while increasing the depth of the actual space, but accurate, they are not.

 

This post has the smell of common sense about it, something not always encountered in abundance in these forums. While I wouldn't agree that a brighter phone is necessarily better for classical, still I wanted the post as a whole reprinted for those who might have passed over it earlier. Definitely worth a closer read.  

 

[Frank I]

 
Quote:

In noting that 2D was mentioned in reference to the LCD-2, I can only wonder what music was being played and what the system was. This is such a divergence from what I am hearing it is like saying a white wall is black. I hear better placement, imaging and 3D effect from the LCD-2 than from any other phone I own or have listened to. The dynamics can be downright startling. I also find I can listen at lower volumes than with any of my other phones and still get the body and sound of the music. I have also found that stage size is larger than what I expected, after reading the many comments about a small stage size. I am not trying to "hear" into anything or wish for something to be better than it is. I don't do that and have no need to do that. Having built my own equipment, I know what I want and like and music is what I like. The LCD-2 do a better and more pure job of this than anything else I have heard in the headphone line, save live music and even then live isn't always the best for pure musical enjoyment. 

John you are spot on in your comments regarding the LCD2. I believe that for the money and maybe even much more money they cannot be beat for musicality. They are my favorite cans by far and hoping Audeze continues to put out more products as I for one look forward to what is next from them

 

[MrGreen]

Quote:

This post has the smell of common sense about it, something not always encountered in abundance in these forums. While I wouldn't agree that a brighter phone is necessarily better for classical, still I wanted the post as a whole reprinted for those who might have passed over it earlier. Definitely worth a closer read.  

Jokes aside, common sense is called common for a reason.
 
 
Quote:

Quote:Originally Posted by jamato8 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 I also find I can listen at lower volumes than with any of my other phones and still get the body and sound of the music.

 
 
This is because of the frequency response. The same works for headphones like the GS1k, although for SLIGHTLY different reasons
 

 

[rgs9200m]

As far as the excess-decay in the LCD2, I heard that also loud and clear with the stock SE cable and it really bothered me. But as I mentioned above, the ALO XLR cables address this problem to a large extent.
With the stock cable, it seems to happen in almost all CDs, but now, it is reduced in all CDs and vanishes in many. In fact, I would say that with the ALOs, the midrange decay (and overall speed)
is equal to my T1s (stock cable, single ended).
 
I listened to my (very old) Johnny Rivers hits CD where his vocals have an annoying, almost ringing overhang. It was headache-producing with the LCD2 & SE stock cable, but was reduced enough
for non-painful listening with the ALO XLRs.Then I tried my T1s and noticed the same level of overhang as I did with the LCD2 XLRs.
So it sounds to me like the ALO XLRs, if not completely curing this problem, at least make it equivalent to a stock T1.
 
I tried some other CDs I know well and do not suffer from a loose midrange (Grass Roots, Carole King-Music, 3-Dog-Night) and the mids were also as firm as the T1s. And on my SACDs that I tried (Rolling Stones Hot Rocks and Boston),
things were totally tight and with no flaws at all and just provide what my hypercritical self calls an awesome musical experience.
 
I think this decay thing has something to do with digital glare, which is a tough test speakers and phones in general.
 
I also have PS1000s, and they seem to have the firmest midrange and best, most natural decay than either the T1s or LCD2s, and I turn to them for CDs that have this problem.
But the LCD2s are smoother than the Grados, and the upper highs are more liquid than the T1s. I love the upper highs of the LCD2s for their complete lack of bitterness.

 

[jamato8]

I get no excessive decay in the midrange. That is something that would annoy me. I do listen most all the time balanced, which controls the transducer better IMO than SE. I will listen SE and see if I hear it. 

 

[SP Wild]

Some of you guys seriously need to carry out more research into the ADSR stages.  I can smell the BS from here...miles away from where its being spouted.

 

[TimPrice]

like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6pp6OMU5r8

 

[n3rdling]

Quote:

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
 
"Part of the sound bass"? Who are you kidding? You are just a treble head -and hey if you are good for you... but lets be serious please. All the stats I have heard (which admittedly is only 2 models 404 and 303) have SEVERELY rolled of low end in comparison to the mids and especially the highs, and the low low bass say 100hz, okay maybe 80hz and downwards is pretty much non existant.
 
Just because a headphone has neutral bass down to 10 hz does not mean it is coloured and fun or of lesser quality... the LCD-2 is the epitome of bass quality measured, and to my ears.  (and to my ears mids too and highs are excellent but not the best in the world, but not far off).
 
It is flat... so there is not FR tweaking going on here.. it plays it as it is IE hi-fi: highly faithful... rolled off bass is not although it has its place as a sound signature and can be very enjoyable.
 
"controlled" "tight" blah blah blah - sure the quality is great but these words are meaningless because you really mean to say ROLLED OFF which would mean coloured.
 
Stat bass (that I have heard and I know the kind you are speaking of the SA5K/W5K have it too and guess what? THEY ARE CRAZY ROLLED OFF TOO)It is not "part of the sound" because a fair chunk of it is not in the sound in the first place... it is rolled off to the enth degree.
 
There are no "different types of bass" as you put it in reality. There is rolled off, boosted, and neutral. That is it. Stats are rolled off, dynamics tend to be boosted in the mid bass and rolled off, although less so than stats in the subbass, and the LCD-2 are ruler flat perfect -technically speaking.
 
The Stax do have a great soundstage and nice "ethereal" qualities which I quite like. All that being said, the HD 800 ran circles around the 404 in terms of linearity, neutrality, and soundstage. Sure it has a treble spike, but so do the stats, and it has no bass roll off (or CUT OFF  in the case of stats) and is nice and audible down to good ol 20hz.
 
 
 
Like i said before, you don't have to like the LCD-2 let alone worship it... but lets not spout bs

You have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. 
 
SR Omega
 

 
 
SR 404
 

 
SR 404 with earpads lying flush (rough measurements)
 

 
SR 404 with a gap (rough measurements)
 

 
I guess it is possible that you had a gap when listening, though unlikely.  Perhaps your ears are missing, which I suspect after reading that post.

 

[MrGreen]

Hey cool, I didn't know the Omegas were free field equalised as well. Have you tried them with one of the Diffuse Field EQs that stax produced, Milos?

 

[n3rdling]

Nope, never heard them actually.  I just found this today which I might build one day: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/38064/passive-eq-for-stax

 

[sokolov91]

Quote:

 
I guess it is possible that you had a gap when listening, though unlikely.  Perhaps your ears are missing, which I suspect after reading that post.

Umm maybe your eyes are missing? because I did say "the ones I have heard" and mentioned the 303 and 404. NOT the omega.
 
This is very interesting stuff though and gives me hope to one day hear the omega. But the graph of the 404 does not make sense to me eyes and ears.
 
I do like the stax sound overall anyways - just not for the price of entry.
 
 
The 404 graph sounds nothing like what I heard. Maybe the lower down one. There was very noticeable bass roll off and I had specifically brought bass heavy music (among other music) to test them with. There were entire rhythms in the low end that were not there, or barely so that should have been via the 404. To be fair I am a stax nub and there might have been a better way to wear them... I then to wear my headphones loosely and the way that the ultrasone guys and Jan Meier suggest to wear them down and back, to expose the whole ear. I tried doing this with the stax and it is very possible there was not a proper seal thus killing the bass. I used them mid level tube amp.
 
I have no idea if it was the amp, the edition of the headphones, they fit on my head, but I assure you what I was hearing was not that sexy looking middle graph. Not at all and they were easily trounced by my LCD-2 rig at home except for soundstage.
 
 
Too bad I won't have the chance to bring my HD 800 down to the shop and AB, but they HD 800 are noticeably bassier to by ears.
 
So, I might be a noob, an may or may not have worn them improperly - but I know exactly what I am talking about because, oh yeah, I experienced it with my personal reference material.
 
again, the 404 sounded like the SA5K to me, which suggests are very different graph. Sounded like the HD 800 although more neutral in the highs and less neutral in the lows.
 
Oh and P.S. these graphs are well overdue ... however they do not seem to agree with the geocities ones IIRC.

 

[sokolov91]

 
Even that is a nice graph (02) and its much more believable then the one you had for the 01.
 
notice there is bass roll off. TBH though I am no sure which kind of graph this is or if it is compensated etc. Just know it looks much more realistic and the 404 to my ears would be something like this with a bit more roll off in the bass.
 

 
Notice how similar, but more neutral the HD 800 graph is....
 
Seems I am not so crazy after all smarty pants.