Audeze LCD-2 Orthos

[BK_856er]

Far too rich for me - ouch.  What's the story on the clone?
 
Hopefully this is not too far off topic for this thread...but if I can make my new LCD-2s perform even better.....
 
BK

 
Quote:

It's a clone of the Audience Adept Response:
 
www.audience-av.com/conditioners/ar12_desc.php
 
Here's a review:
 
www.6moons.com/audioreviews/audience5/adeptresponse.html
 
I haven't tried others so maybe there's something out there for less money that would do as good a job with headphones. This unit has no inductors, only capacitors, and I'm told is really designed for use with power amps where reduction of dynamics with power conditioners is a problem - that shouldn't be an issue with low-level inputs (preamps, hp amps etc.).
 

 

 

[sokolov91]

 
Quote:

So far I'm impressed by 4 things:

- Bass is phenomenon but yet not overwhelm the whole spectrum, unlike my D7000.

- Very retrieving

- I don't really get the concept of "fast" but when I listen to LCD-2 I feel it's very fast. The pace of music is somehow different even compared to my STAX. It's my own feeling. Not by reading other posts.

- Soundstage is indeed not the hugest compared to some phones I had but imaging best them all.

I agree on all accounts! However, I think the fast thing is pretty easy to pick up with certain recordings.
 
Symphonies are excellent. Lots going on in all parts of the spectrum with varying speeds and volumes all over the place... the speed allows all things to come together cohesively, and not drown each other out. The decay and crystal clear imagine at all times, in all frequencies, instead of marginally smeared transients really makes itself apparent.
 
Post-Hardcore, with lots of ambient distortions, (over)use of decaying distorted guitars and in general, and very crowded and thick sound have a level of clarity that I had not yet heard. Amidst the purposefully created chaos, and the very layered sound, it is obvious that much less smears together when using the LCD-2 vs dynamics. The subtleties of the work come out much better as a result of the "clearer lens" that a faster transducer is.
 
Songs with lots of backing vocals - you will be surprised to hear there are quite a few more people than you had originally though. Voices that were once intertwined, or slightly out of focus are much easier to perceive
 
Well recorded percussion. In lots of songs you can hear, to a degree, overtones of the skins and many different tones from the same drum over the course of a second or two. Toms especially have much more character and body, and the snare is much more dynamic. A lot of info that is not fully capture gets captured. 
 
Now, whether or not all of this is directly related to speed I will admit I have no way of knowing for sure. FR is definitely related to a degree.
 
All in all it is the accuracy in a lot of the little things that adds up to make a pretty substantial improvement.
 
If anyone else has some examples I would be interested to read them. These were the best that came to mind.


 
Quote:

I don't really know how these things work but by filtering out the crud in the line it seems to improve the s/n and allow detail that was masked before to be heard. Yes, it was installed on the same outlet/circuit that I'd been using before, and no, the result wasn't a psychoacoustic effect. I didn't even have to A/B because I played CDs/SACDs I had recently listened to with the same set-up, which hasn't changed for a couple of months. This wasn't a subtle improvement that I had to check to make sure I wasn't making it up. Once you know how a reference sounds, obvious changes are just that, obvious. And they were consistent.
 
The amp is DIY, discrete, ss, about 1/2w.
 

 

 
Well, logically, the fact that you did not check means you really don't know at all if it is psychoacoustic or not . And even if you did check, without some sort of control you would not be able to tell if it was truly psychoacoustics or not anyways. Regardless, if it is improving your enjoyment, despite where the change ultimately lies -all the better!
 
Capacitance is an interesting feature I must admit, I am pretty sure mine does not have that. I know my amp has lots of capacitance to supposedly help the op-amps and I think my amp sounds great lol. Who knows.
 
Sounds like you got a nice amp for the LCD-2 btw!
 

 

[immtbiker]

I will have mine on Monday. I missed the notification e-mail otherwise I would have it on my ears this weekend (or does FedEx 2-day include Saturdays?).

 

[Equus]

Unfortunately, I think Saturday delivery is a different service level for both FedEx and UPS.  Bummer about missing the email.

 

[BK_856er]

Really depends on the service option.  For "home" ground service Sat is standard and Sun/Mon is off.  Input your tracking number and you'll find out.  You might also have the option to retrieve your package at the local facility (in my experience as late as 9pm same day).  Go get 'em!
 
BK

 
Quote:

I will have mine on Monday. I missed the notification e-mail otherwise I would have it on my ears this weekend (or does FedEx 2-day include Saturdays?).

 

[Solude]

Well its official no LCD-2 for me this weekend.  FedEx's little side trip to TN meant they weren't cleared for the second time in Ottawa until 1PM and didn't make it out on a truck.  FedEx has also stopped telling me the expected delivery date since... its come and gone, oye.
 
Wife is out, I have the kids.  Might be able to pick them up locally tomorrow but Sunday we're booked solid so... looking like Monday

 

[Currawong]

I ended up re-making my HD-800 APSv3 cable (which I had bought originally from another Head-fier without any termination on the headphone end) for the LCD-2s.  For some unknown reason, my local DIY/electronics shop started carrying mini-XLR plugs and sockets, including the 4-pin ones. Can't say I notice any difference yet, except less bulk.
 
I'm not sure about the idea that the talk has been all positive and people haven't been posting any negatives.  I think quite a few people have been amazed at the difference in detail compared to their other headphones and not commented as much about the weight, cable or headband, as well as the unusual tonal balance.

 

[sokolov91]

 
Quote:

I ended up re-making my HD-800 APSv3 cable (which I had bought originally from another Head-fier without any termination on the headphone end) for the LCD-2s.  For some unknown reason, my local DIY/electronics shop started carrying mini-XLR plugs and sockets, including the 4-pin ones. Can't say I notice any difference yet, except less bulk.
 
I'm not sure about the idea that the talk has been all positive and people haven't been posting any negatives.  I think quite a few people have been amazed at the difference in detail compared to their other headphones and not commented as much about the weight, cable or headband, as well as the unusual tonal balance.

 
I would agree the talk has indeed been subject to some serious negativity, although it has been by no means the bulk of the conversation. The weight, the clamp, the fact not all models are the same, the wait times, the slightly recessed highs etc etc.
 
Personally, I do not experience any of these grips other than the weight. I think age could effect just how recessed the headphones sound. They sound slightly recessed to me, but 20-30 years older I could see how they could be that much darker. Most headphones do tend to be bright though, which would make any recession seem all that more apparent. The fact there are so many positives does make it that much easier to live with any flaws.
 
What do you find odd about tonal balance? To these ears they are spot on, more so than my previous tone champ -the HD 600. It is a rather rich sound, and the accuracy and coherency of the lows, and lower mids is not one often heard in a headphone. Just wondering because odd could be seen as a negative connotation, instead of say remarkable.

 

[Frank I]

Quote:

I ended up re-making my HD-800 APSv3 cable (which I had bought originally from another Head-fier without any termination on the headphone end) for the LCD-2s.  For some unknown reason, my local DIY/electronics shop started carrying mini-XLR plugs and sockets, including the 4-pin ones. Can't say I notice any difference yet, except less bulk.
 
I'm not sure about the idea that the talk has been all positive and people haven't been posting any negatives.  I think quite a few people have been amazed at the difference in detail compared to their other headphones and not commented as much about the weight, cable or headband, as well as the unusual tonal balance.

I think the idea of telling you some of the issue should always be brought out. I am on the list and buying them. I have had questions regarding weight and clamping and the pads. I still have not backe off and I am perfectly happy with my T1 and to be honest those are staying. Microphonic cable should be an  easy fix for Audeze to fix. I am not big into aftermarket cables on expensive headphones. I have had cables on phones that were microphonic as the Shure 840 and it didnt bother me. Impressed at some of the total honesty comin forth lately and yes their is still exaggeration but it will be fun when I get them,

 

[tonereef]

Oh, I'm sure - double-blind tests and level-matching to within .1 dB aren't necessary for really obvious differences, musical memory will suffice. I wouldn't have posted if I had any doubts. By psychoacoustic I meant the power of suggestion - using the term very loosely. True psychoacoustic effects would be those that are perceived but not actual (objective, measurable), right? - but nonetheless real and verifiable. For example, take away or add some highs and the rest of the audio spectrum sounds different too even though nothing was changed there. Or difference tones. Everybody agrees this is how we hear.
 
Plus the effects of power conditioning are well understood - lower the noise floor significantly and there ought to be the types of sonic differences I reported, and that friends of mine have reported using this unit (it's just on loan...). I just wasn't expecting them to be so ear-popping and grin-inducing...
 
You might say I put too much faith in subjective reports (including my own) - I do when I know the people involved, who are not trying to sell me anything! It's like reviewers, you have to know their taste and experience to evaluate what they say. But, I'm totally not anti-scientific, and I don't believe that differences are a simply a matter of taste and personal priorities. Preferences of course (partly) are, but when people imply that flagship headphone A is as good as flagship headphone B because they each have their ardent champions and everyone's taste and hearing is different...that's going a bit far...Even though it's impossible to know what anyone else is actually hearing (doubly so with headphones), and everyone's equipment is different too, there IS a more objective (actually inter-subjective) standard, which is how live music sounds - music that hasn't been put through a sound system before reaching your ears, doesn't all have to be acoustic, some of it might be electric or electronic.
 
Sorry for the rant...I'm not taking any ideological stand here for orthos vs stats vs dynamics or anything else, I just try to report what I hear.
 
Quote:

 

Well, logically, the fact that you did not check means you really don't know at all if it is psychoacoustic or not . And even if you did check, without some sort of control you would not be able to tell if it was truly psychoacoustics or not anyways. Regardless, if it is improving your enjoyment, despite where the change ultimately lies -all the better!
 
Capacitance is an interesting feature I must admit, I am pretty sure mine does not have that. I know my amp has lots of capacitance to supposedly help the op-amps and I think my amp sounds great lol. Who knows.
 
Sounds like you got a nice amp for the LCD-2 btw!
 

 

[MacedonianHero]

So I've had the LCD-2s now for a few nights and have some very initial musings on them as I was comparing them to my HD800s and T1s. I plan to write something a little more cohesive and detailed when I've had them for a bit longer to really get a feel for them.
 
The microphonic cable issue on the LCD-2 is real, but only in the upper "Y" section if you rub the two wires together. Below where it's a single wire right to the Neutrik plug, the cable is very similar to the T1's cable in girth, length and TRS plug.
 
Comfort wise (for my head), I'd rate the HD800s as 10/10, the DT770/600s 9/10, the T1s 8/10 and the LCD-2s 5/10 (as Skylab says: they are not comfortable, nor uncomfortable

). I would rank the HD650s as 3/10 (and that's being generous) with my melon. The LCD-2s clamp more than the HD800s and T1s, but aren't in the walnut cracker range of the HD650s. They are super heavy though and you really appreciate how light the T1s are when you switch from the LCD-2 to the T1.
 
Bass wise, the LCD-2's are simply the absolute best bass I've heard. Very different from the boomy and bloomy D7000. The mids are not recessed like on the Denons and actually just behind the T1s for being upfront and liquid. Both the T1 and LCD-2 do surpass by a small margin the HD800s in the mid range. The LCD-2's mids are amazing considering that the great bass in no way encroaches on them. They are upfront and smooth (but again, slightly behind the T1s IMHO right now).
 
Is treble is rolled off? Aaron is absolutely right IMO. Compared to the HD800 and T1 which have very neutral in the treble, the LCD-2's treble is recessed...not by much and actually I'm really digging the treble's presentation. It is NOT rolled off like the SE530's treble. The cymbal smashes are further back and one can argue that this is more true to real life as that's where the drummer and cymbals are located.
 
The sound stage king is still the HD800s IMO. I was listening to "Jazz at the Pawnshop" a few nights ago with my HD800s and had to take them off 8 or 9 times because I could swear there were people around me clanking their glasses. With the T1s and LCD-2s, I don't get this effect to the same extent. I would give the HD800s a 10/10  and both the T1 and LCD-2 an 8/10 in that regard.
 
Musicality is where the LCD-2s and T1s really shine and surpass the HD800s in my opinion. Both are phenomenal in portraying the artist's emotion in the the recording.
 
So I would definitely say that the LCD-2s deserve to be considered in the very top 3 headphones that I've ever heard. The HD800s are incredible technically with amazing sound stage and clarity, the LCD-2s are very earthy and organic with true to life bass and mids, but yet portray all the details very close to the HD800s. The T1s are somewhere in between and seem to be a very happy median.
 
I am keeping all three! They are all that good (err...great

).

 

[tisb0b]

You've at least given me another thing to consider in order to complete and tweak my audio system. 
 
Quote:

Oh, I'm sure - double-blind tests and level-matching to within .1 dB aren't necessary for really obvious differences, musical memory will suffice. I wouldn't have posted if I had any doubts. By psychoacoustic I meant the power of suggestion - using the term very loosely. True psychoacoustic effects would be those that are perceived but not actual (objective, measurable), right? - but nonetheless real and verifiable. For example, take away or add some highs and the rest of the audio spectrum sounds different too even though nothing was changed there. Or difference tones. Everybody agrees this is how we hear.

 

[Currawong]

MacedonianHero: Very good summary there.  

 
When previously I said that the tonal balance was unusual, I was thinking of a great many headphones where there is a mid-bass hump and treble peak.  The LCD-2s have a less-common frequency response.

 

[tunarat]

 
Quote:

 
Symphonies are excellent. Lots going on in all parts of the spectrum with varying speeds and volumes all over the place... the speed allows all things to come together cohesively, and not drown each other out. The decay and crystal clear imagine at all times, in all frequencies, instead of marginally smeared transients really makes itself apparent.
 
Songs with lots of backing vocals - you will be surprised to hear there are quite a few more people than you had originally though. Voices that were once intertwined, or slightly out of focus are much easier to perceive
 

Yup!  Detail maniac in certain recordings.  

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

MacedonianHero: Very good summary there.  

 
When previously I said that the tonal balance was unusual, I was thinking of a great many headphones where there is a mid-bass hump and treble peak.  The LCD-2s have a less-common frequency response.

Thanks Currawong!

 
They are certainly one of a kind their their sound signature and don't sound like anything I've heard before. Are they better than my T1s/HD800s...right now I'm going to say nope. They do some things better than the other two and the T1s/HD800s do other things better. But all three are amazing in their own right.
 
I am keeping my Denon D7000s as I need closed headphones (and I really like their fun sound), and they do get honourable mention...but do not keep up with the other three (IMO of course).