[SP Wild]

Quote:

whats the bass like compared to the D7000

From what I understand (which means I may well be wrong) - Hip hop lovers may actually enjoy the LCD2s bass - probably not as much a the D7000, but certainly more than other hi-end alternatives (in a purely quantitative sense).  (Thought I'd make a comment as I am, as I type, enjoying my D7000s with Fragma playing techno tunes)

 

[electropop]

Quote:

From what I understand (which means I may well be wrong) - Hip hop lovers may actually enjoy the LCD2s bass - probably not as much a the D7000, but certainly more than other hi-end alternatives (in a purely quantitative sense).  (Thought I'd make a comment as I am, as I type, enjoying my D7000s with Fragma playing techno tunes)

 

 

[SP Wild]

Quote:

 

Perhaps if one uses the SE530 as a basis for bass comparison - could be a good start, maybe.  Of course without the horrendous treble roll-off in the SE530 (both LCD-2 and SE530 measure dead flat in bass) - which perhaps may mean that there may be a tad less perceived bass response in LCD2 vs SE530 - and the SE530 is not generally regarded a bassheads can either.

 

[midoo1990]

another LCD2+alo cable in the FS forum.i wonder why....

 

[TigzStudio]

Quote:

another LCD2+alo cable in the FS forum.i wonder why....

Maybe it was his tube amps?  I think he had said something in posts about them being to warm or something....
 
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/344355/pictures-of-your-high-end-system/1005
 

 

[DefectiveAudioComponent]

No headphone is for everyone, not even the LCD-2.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

No headphone is for everyone, not even the LCD-2.

true...

 

[thinker]

I sold the LCD-2,they are the best orthos i have ever heard,these phones are great i liked them very much.They are not dark or warm with Moth or other tube amps, the first source is important the DAC or whatever you use as source.I didnt sell these because i didnt like them. There seems to be only one negative feature with these phones and its clamping force.I had also Ultrasone 8 in the past and they were also too tight,i dont like tight phones over my head.People who are considering to buy the LCD-2  phones go ahead and buy them they are cheap against what they can deliver and they deliver probably the best headphone experience what you can get anywhere at the present moment.

 

[electropop]

Quote:

Perhaps if one uses the SE530 as a basis for bass comparison - could be a good start, maybe.  Of course without the horrendous treble roll-off in the SE530 (both LCD-2 and SE530 measure dead flat in bass) - which perhaps may mean that there may be a tad less perceived bass response in LCD2 vs SE530 - and the SE530 is not generally regarded a bassheads can either.

 
K701 bass is perfect for me. I can hear the instrument AND notes (with their pitches) clearly. Not sure about SE530, but SRH840 is a big no no for me. I'm hoping LCD-2 will be natural. I don't even mind a bit of coloration as long as I can hear notes pitch accurately.
 

 

[jcx]

cables cannot change headphone frequency response by the 6-10 dB necessary to change the LCD-2 frequency response to resemble some other high end can - one with a reputation for "brightness" if you like
 
this isn't a subjective opinion - it is a engineering reality - 6 dB is 4x the power, 10 dB is 10x the power - simple short wire and low K dielectric cables, even of Gold or Silver, do not cause relative differences of that magnitude at some frequencies in the audio frequency range and not others driving a load as near a 50 Ohm resistor as Tyll's impedance measurement show for the LCD-2
 
as an engineer I and my employer regularly bet multiple US$10k on such "opinions" - backed by education and experience designing, building and measuring the results
 
if you believe posters of subjective opinions on "cable sound" at all and that what they describe is some function of headphone/cable/amplifier frequency response (as implied by their language when they use terms like "dark", bright") you have to accept that they are talking about differences of fractions of dB
 
 
 
no headphone modifies pitch where it has any output at all - timbre can be affected by frequency response  

 

[Paganini Alfredo]

The fact that you would bet $10,000 bucks on opinions about cables makes your opinion nil in my mind.
 
Oh yeah, I forgot you were talking about cable changes with the LCD-2.... speaking of which did you try them with and without the stock cable?

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

cables cannot change headphone frequency response by the 6-10 dB necessary to change the LCD-2 frequency response to resemble some other high end can - one with a reputation for "brightness" if you like
 
this isn't a subjective opinion - it is a engineering reality - 6 dB is 4x the power, 10 dB is 10x the power - simple short wire and low K dielectric cables, even of Gold or Silver, do not cause relative differences of that magnitude at some frequencies in the audio frequency range and not others driving a load as near a 50 Ohm resistor as Tyll's impedance measurement show for the LCD-2
 
as an engineer I and my employer regularly bet multiple US$10k on such "opinions" - backed by education and experience designing, building and measuring the results
 
if you believe posters of subjective opinions on "cable sound" at all and that what they describe is some function of headphone/cable/amplifier frequency response (as implied by their language when they use terms like "dark", bright") you have to accept that they are talking about differences of fractions of dB
 
no headphone modifies pitch where it has any output at all - timbre can be affected by frequency response  

Your post was well stated, and I agree with the concepts.  I just wanted to add some perspective on pitch alteration phenomena mentioned by some in earlier posts.
 
I think most people are familiar with the boomy car subwoofers that can be heard a block away as they pull up behind you on the street.  The bass emitted has a very monotonic character to it because the sonic energy is largely focused around the resonant frequency of the bass box in the car.  These "woofers" are tuned to a particular frequency, usually somewhere between 50 and 200 Hz.  Almost any bass excitation from the music causes resonance at the resonant frequency of the woofer system in the car along with the fundamental tone.  The effect is extremely non-musical and even dissonant to me.
 
Now, thousands of times more subtle, but just as audible to a trained ear, are...
 
Any high Q resonance issues in a headphone system will lend a similar monotonic character (but at different resonant frequencies) to material being listened to on that headphone.  Waterfall plots are very useful for revealing these resonant problems in a headphone.  Re-cabling a headphone will have no effect on these sorts of issues.  BTW, the waterfall plots for the LCD-2 are some of the very best I have ever seen in the industry.

 

[Skylab]

KW, all of that makes sense to me, but it still has nothing to do with pitch. Timbre, yes. Pitch, no. You could only change the pitch of the music by speeding up or slowing down the recording in question - emphasizing some frequencies, even in the extreme car stereo example, does not alter the pitch.

 

[jcx]

 
Quote:

The fact that you would bet $10,000 bucks on opinions about cables makes your opinion nil in my mind.
 
Oh yeah, I forgot you were talking about cable changes with the LCD-2.... speaking of which did you try them with and without the stock cable?

 the "Bet" referred to is about the validity of engineering calculations in the course of designing a product
 
to make a new industrial instrument or motion controller I make decisions based on dozens of engineering calculations (ie "my opinions") during the design phase and then commit many hours of technician, purchasing time and many more (non refundable) dollars to vendors, fabrication services - I expect to hit much more precise measured performance goals than the "6-10" dB I mentioned
 
I specifically did not claim anything requiring subjective evaluation
 
 
the implied "bet" would be about the measured frequency response variations of a headphone with specified load impedance and "simple short wire" headphone cables not exceeding some level (such as 1 dB or the repeatbility of the frequency response measurement itself)

 

[immtbiker]

Last night, I sat down and did a serious listening session comparing the LCD-s', the T-1's and the Denon 7000's (which were
completely rewired from head to toe using Siltech wiring by Drew of Moon Audio).
First of all, I was extremely surprised to find that the T-1's bass were totally anemic compared to the other 2 brands. It was
just plain missing. I would have not noticed this without doing head-head comparisons.
Secondly, anyone who says that the LCD-2's are not a dark headphone, either has not done direct comparisons or have
become  completely acclimated to them after some long term ownership. They blew the other 2 headphones away in detail, but
I'm sorry, the treble is extremely rolled off, and the only way to not hear that is to just listen to them by themselves without
doing comparisons to other top tier headphones.
A lot of people when they first get them, say they are dark, but change their minds after hours of use. The truth is, they are
dark. They just don't reach the upper register that other headphones from $900-1500 reach. There's no way around that. I think
that they are just convincing themselves to justify their purchase. They are a great headphone that succeed in many areas, but
treble extension is not one of them. Their detail is unrivaled and they produce a presentation that is unbelievable, but they are
missing notes and have a deficit when it comes to sustaining the high notes.
The T-1's are a good overall performer, but when comparing the three headphones, the bass is just downright missing. It's not
that the bass isn't visceral, it's just that it is not there. Period. This analysis was made using the same source and the same
amp for all three.
 
In come the modded Denon 7000's. They lack a bit in detail, and the bass is a bit wobbly, but the highs are clear as a bell
(the Siltech wiring is probably the emulsifier) and the bass is truly dominant even though they can use a bit more tightness. It
made me realize all of the upper register that was missing from the Audeze. Our brains, especially after a $1000 purchase can
easily be convinced to grow with the LCD-2's, but I believe, unless you get a better cable, it is bottlenecking the upper end.
Listening to the LCD-2's for a solid week without listening to anything else, was a rewarding experience, until I brought some other equally priced, high end offerings into the mix.
A good percentage of new owner say they are dark, right from the onset, and then eventually grow to love them. That doesn't
mean that the sound has changed. Our brain has accepted them for what they are, and without comparisons, they are the greatest thing since color TV. Once you compare, it becomes a different story.
 
This, combined with different retrofits still being offered to different order periods, make me want to wait until Audeze comes
out with a final product, that they feel is the best that they can offer. It is not fair that different monthly orders are getting different headphones. Each revision needs to be called a different model number so that the models can be distinguished from one another.
 
Again, these are great ortho headphones with gobs of detail and tremendous bass, but 1/3 of the equation is still missing. God's
gift to the headphone world is going to have to be allowed some more time.