[rhythmdevils]

So Lunatique, have you bought the LCD-2 yet? 

  just curious

 

[achristilaw]

 
Quote:

 

Well Sir, I wasn't hoping for so very much, and I wasn't disappointed. They make noise, but are far from optimal as they run out of steam rather quickly. If you listen at medium-levels consistently you can make it by. That's been the finding with most (not all) op-amp based...keep it down, and don't expect the World (or optimum performance), your O.K.
 
Moar Powah = Moar Bettah...

It was here...you didn't report back or forgot...something.
 
They are fatiguing...quite! Can you honestly keep them playing for two or more hours without a break? Really? I wouldn't call the Zana performance a speed barn-burner. The 800's needed solid-state (IMO) because I need transient speed for a host of things. Clarity, decay and ambiance are all related to speed. Control of the ring radiator was best, along with the best bass possible was to be had via solid-state. It (solid-state) offered the best treble extension for the 800. If I had the Leben with the 800...I would have been more content, but the Audez'e got in the way (it was no contest between them).
 
I have a Moth si2A3/45H and the 800 wouldn't live up to my expectations using it. SET's or direct heated triodes lack the sparkle of actual for me and have never been my favorite for Headphones. My home brew horns...that's different! 
 
Tubes (triodes) turned the 800 into a bun warmer, speaking for myself....some people like warm.. those that prefer the typical tube amp.
 

 

[dallan]

Did you use your Moth with 800s?
 
I have heard a solid state i liked with the 800s, it was a balanced set up B22.  I was impressed with that so my mind is open, and it is open to the LCD-2 also, whenever I get the opportunity to hear them.  I realize that you are not a fan of the 800s though and I am not here to change your mind.  I listen to several different phones, the HD800s just end up being on my head more than the others, i must like the sound more.
 
Edit-oh it was you I asked about the Lisa, sorry couldn't remember, and no I missed the response....so that kinda knocks me out of these phones for a bit in that they would require a whole new amp setup.

 

[momomo6789]

so I should be getting these soon payed today yay. but the only headphone amps i have are cmoy / udac which one you think will work better . is there any amps i can build under $100 max that would work decently with these ?

 

[achristilaw]

 
Quote:

Did you use your Moth with 800s?
 
I have heard a solid state i liked with the 800s, it was a balanced set up B22.  I was impressed with that so my mind is open, and it is open to the LCD-2 also, whenever I get the opportunity to hear them.  I realize that you are not a fan of the 800s though and I am not here to change your mind.  I listen to several different phones, the HD800s just end up being on my head more than the others, i must like the sound more.
 
Edit-oh it was you I asked about the Lisa, sorry couldn't remember, and no I missed the response....so that kinda knocks me out of these phones for a bit in that they would require a whole new amp setup.

The Moth and Balanced Beta I own and were used for the 800. I liked the Gilmore's better however...faster and cleaner! When the Audez'e happened..the 800 lost relevancy.
 
People have good reports using the Zana? Or was it the ZDT?...do you have the impedance switch? That would be more than sufficient I would think!! A great amp with great power-supply =

....
 
I was the very same way when I was waiting for my Audez'e. I was here defending the 800 (I thought it was the best I had heard, period, to that point). I was told by others that my opinion might change...IT DID! It's still a credible and relevant phone for most, just not myself any longer. Don't listen...you may be the next victim

.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

I'll pick on the Schiit amp since it's the FOTM and is being advertised in very deceiving ways. 

So tell us more about these deceptions to which you refer.
Thx,
k

 

[achristilaw]

I think the distinguishing of peak vs. continuous power ratings has come into question from some. It would be a non-issue for me as it's cheap and has reasonable power. What is the official gain of the device published/established at? 

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

I think the distinguishing of peak vs. continuous power ratings has come into question from some. It would be a non-issue for me as it's cheap and has reasonable power. What is the official gain of the device published/established at? 

So what's deceptive about that?  It simply is what it is.  It's identified accurately by the manufacturer.  Many, many headphone manufacturers state output capacity in that same manner.  Why are people so quick to throw around derogatory terms, when it's completely dishonest to do?  Talk about being deceptive!
 
As I recall the gain is not published, and was a minor concern of mine until I got the unit.  Gain seems to be more than sufficient for my needs.

 

[BaboonGuy]

Gain is 5x. I asked it if could be changed to 1x and they said they can't offer that. Then they said perhaps we should do a buffer amplifier next, as that would be able to do 1x.

 

[BoilermakerFan]

 
Quote:

So tell us more about these deceptions to which you refer.
Thx,
k

I already covered it in this thread.  It's being advertised as a high-end audiophile amp with very high peak power output, when in reality the RMS power will be very low once it is up to temperature.  In my eyes, this is no different that the car stereo amps at Wal-Mart claiming 200W + 200W when in reality, it might deliver 5W per channel at 1.7% THD.  But they advertise it as a 20V peak Class A at 315mA.  Let the amp get good and hot, ground the input signal and measure the bias.  That's the real bias, when the FETs are hot and the amp is stable.  It's not illegal to make the claim they make, but it's misleading. 
 
If I'm shown a shot of an amp that's up to temp and running nice and hot with a iR temp reading visible along with a DVM showing the correct mV reading for the bias based on the measured rail voltage in the same pic with a Kill-A-Watt meter showing the hot amp still drawing 35W from the wall, I'll admit I was wrong to believe they are being misleading in their marketing.  I'll congratulate them on having the balls to sell an amp for $250 each to the public that is capable dissipating 35W of power through its aluminum chassis plate without current soaking the PS iron to cause voltage drops or heat soaking the chassis to the point that the MOSFETs throttle back their peak output power.  Until I see that pic, I choose to remain a skeptic and view their marketing as misleading along the same manner as the "Panasony" 400W car amp at Wal-Mart.  If I see the pic, I'll admit I was wrong and eat my humble pie with some Cool Whip.  
 
 
I think any amp manufacturer that makes peak power claims that aren't at full operating temperature and full spectrum are misleading.  That might reel in many sponsors here on H-F.  So be it.  It's my opinion.  If they want to publish peak power or peak swing fine, but publish the RMS specs over the full bandwidth too.  The most reputable companies that have engineered a great product tend to to do that already though. 
 

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

 

I already covered it in this thread.  It's being advertised as a high-end audiophile amp with very high peak power output, when in reality the RMS power will be very low once it is up to temperature.  In my eyes, this is no different that the car stereo amps at Wal-Mart claiming 200W + 200W when in reality, it might deliver 5W per channel at 1.7% THD.  But they advertise it as a 20V peak Class A at 315mA.  Let the amp get good and hot, ground the input signal and measure the bias.  That's the real bias, when the FETs are hot and the amp is stable.  It's not illegal to make the claim they make, but it's deceptive. 
 
If I'm shown a shot of an amp that's up to temp and running nice and hot with a iR temp reading visible along with a DVM showing the correct mV reading for the bias based on the measured rail voltage in the same pic with a Kill-A-Watt meter showing the hot amp still drawing 35W from the wall, I'll admit I was wrong to believe they are being deceptive and I'll congratulate them on having the balls to sell an amp to the public that is dissipating 35W of power through its aluminum chassis plate without current soaking their PS iron to cause voltage drops or heat soaking the chassis to the point that the MOSFETs throttle back output power for $250.  Until I see that pic, I choose to remain a skeptic and view their marketing as deceptive along the same manner as the "Panasony" 400W car amp at Wal-Mart.  If I see the pic, I'll admit I was wrong and eat my humble pie with some Cool Whip.  
 
I think any amp manufacturer that makes peak power claims that aren't at full operating temperature and full spectrum are dishonest or deceptive.  That might reel in many sponsors here on H-F.  So be it.  It's my opinion.  If they want to publish peak power or peak swing fine, but publish the RMS specs over the full bandwidth too.  The most reputable companies that have engineered a great product tend to to do that already though. 
 
How am I being dishonest or deceptive when I write that I'm skeptical of their claims or that I feel their marketing techniques promoting the peak power is deceptive when RMS power and frequency range it was measured over isn't published.  You may not feel it's deceptive marketing where as I do, but that sure as hell doesn't make me dishonest. 

 
You didn't write that you were simply skeptical, you wrote that the manufacturer was being "deceptive."  There's quite a difference.
 
You are entitled to your skepticism, but you are not entitled to publish your skepticism as fact until you've proven it.
 
C'mmon, man, frankly you're wrong!  Instead of evil surmising, prove what you're saying.  My amp does not act anything like what you describe.  If the max power output declines when the amp has been idling for 4 hours, it's not detectable with the LCD-2s.  I don't have to prove you're wrong, because my amp does not exhibit the characteristic that you claim it does without you ever having laid eyes on one.  You need to prove you're right or put a cork in it. 

 

[thinker]

 
 
 
the link wich i put here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFONNkZ4v1A
One feature wich i like to mention is when you listen with LCD-2 you are inside this performance and you can also measure the actual room size wich means that you hear the walls.I dont get it with other cans they appear to be in a objective position to the performance.I like to know how Omega listeners get it.

 

[DefectiveAudioComponent]

Your post makes me think that maybe perhaps you would have preferred the LCD-1 instead. It's got all that loud air. Instead, it doesn't have all that deep bass, as it gets cancelled out by the open construction. It's a fantastic headphone too, IMHO. Although it's a bit out of production, it's a great can for airheads.
 
Quote:

...and another test.Perceiving apparatus on human beeings is very complex but you can remove a little bit imagination when picture is added in a performance.Yes you can run the LCD out of i pod as well as Grado PS.If sombody has on hand both phones can make the following test.
download the following performance on high resolution
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFONNkZ4v1A
 
check out the lady how she treats the guitar.So how much information you get from this live performance and how much information is on that guitar.No question about it the PS gives subtle resonances, you hear clearly the body of the guitar ,every finger tipp and every string on that guitar is audible-this is almost real life.When i put the LCD on my head and tune my attention to this performance i miss the ultimate live airiness i miss the ultimate resonance from the guitar although everything is "there" with LCD but not in that real life way as PS does it.

 

[thinker]

 

[BoilermakerFan]

 
Quote:

 
You didn't write that you were simply skeptical, you wrote that the manufacturer was being "deceptive."  There's quite a difference.
 
You are entitled to your skepticism, but you are not entitled to publish your skepticism as fact until you've proven it.
 
C'mmon, man, frankly you're wrong!  Instead of evil surmising, prove what you're saying.  My amp does not act anything like what you describe.  If the max power output declines when the amp has been idling for 4 hours, it's not detectable with the LCD-2s.  I don't have to prove you're wrong, because my amp does not exhibit the characteristic that you claim it does without you ever having laid eyes on one.  You need to prove you're right or put a cork in it. 

You're entitled to your opinion Kevin, I'm entitled to mine.  Perhaps you don't like the word deceptive, that's fine, I'll go back and edit it to misleading.  I have never said my skepticism was fact, I said I'm skeptical because I don't believe the thermally stabilized peak power is anywhere near the published peak power do to the nature of how MOSFETs throttle back output power when they get hot.  I do believe it can deliver that peak power as measured in a lab at some set of operating parameters when the chassis isn't hot.  My opinion is that advertising it that way is misleading, I said it wasn't illegal and I said if I'm proven wrong I'll admit it.  I don't need to prove I'm right, I'd just like them to publish the RMS power over full bandwidth or at a minimum, publish the conditions for the peak power measurements.
 
Your statement telling me to prove I'm right amuses me.  You didn't feel deceived (or misled) and you don't feel you received any less quality or power than you purchased.  Great.  Many have enjoyed the marketing angle of the Schiit amps, others don't.  We're allowed to be skeptical of the amps true peak and RMS power once they are hot, but we don't have to prove that we're right.  However, you have shown you will fiercely defend the products you purchase and you take on a negative or condescending demeanor with anyone who disagrees with you or expresses any negativity towards the products you have purchased.  In this case by calling me dishonest because I say I'm skeptical and claiming that when I say why I'm skeptical, I'm stating it as a fact (which I haven't).  I'm certainly not the first, and probably won't be the last, to be offended by your demeanor and personal attacks when discussing products in this thread.  I'm also not the first to feel your comments or tone are out of place for a moderator. 
 
I will "put a cork in it" if you will do the same.