[Lunatique]

Quote:

So Lunatique, have you bought the LCD-2 yet? 

  just curious

I'm on the list currently, and I'm anxiously awaiting the day they contact me with the "Your LCD2 is ready!" email.

  When I get it, and if it really blows me away, I might take it on a trip with me to Japan and Taiwan to compare it to the 007MKII and then decide if I still want to add the 007MKII to my collection, or the LCD2 is indeed "the one to rule them all" for me.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

You're entitled to your opinion Kevin, I'm entitled to mine.  Perhaps you don't like the word deceptive, that's fine.  I have never said my skepticism was fact, I said I'm skeptical because I don't believe the RMS power is anywhere near the published peak power do to the nature of how MOSFETs throttle back output power when they get hot.  I do believe it can deliver that peak power.  My opinion is that advertising it that way is deceptive, I said it wasn't illegal and I said if I'm proven wrong I'll admit it.  I don't need to prove I'm right, I'd just like them to publish the RMS power over full bandwidth.
 
Your statement telling me to prove I'm right amuses me.  You didn't feel deceived and you don't feel you received any less quality or power than you purchased.  Great.  Many have enjoyed the marketing angle of the Schiit amps, others don't.  We're allowed to be skeptical of the amps true RMS power, but we don't have to prove that we're right.  However, you have shown you will fiercely defend the products you purchase and you take on a negative or condescending demeanor with anyone who disagrees with you or expresses any negativity towards the products you have purchased.  In this case by calling me dishonest because I say I'm skeptical and claiming that when I say why I'm skeptical, I'm stating it as a fact (which I haven't).  I'm certainly not the first, and probably won't be the last, to be offended by your demeanor and personal attacks when discussing products in this thread.  I'm also not the first to feel your comments or tone are out of place for a moderator. 
 
I will "put a cork in it" if you will do the same. 

I think we got off on the wrong foot here.  I apologize for my part in that.  To clarify, my beef is with your purporting something to be fact when it's an educated guess, suspicion, or anything but fact.  In some of your posts, you can across like you were stating fact when it was actually your suspicion and opinion.  It's certainly fine to have, hold, and share an opinion or suspicion as long as it's clearly identified as such.
 
I shared your suspicion before my Asgard arrived.  I purposely let the amp fully saturate with heat and let it run a few more hours beyond that and checked (subjectively) the output.  It was not obviously diminished.  The amp still had plenty of reserve on hand to play continuously far louder that I could stand to listen.  I went so far as to take the headphones off, set them on the bench and crank the volume to max, both when the amp was cool and when it was hot.  I did not instrument or measure anything except by my ears so it was all subjective, but I don't seem to see the problem you suspect is there.
 
So I guess we both have opinions, one based on subjective experience, one based on suspicion alone.
 
BTW, the "Professional" SPL Auditor and Phonitor amps list their specs the same way.  Does that make them dishonest too?
 
Also BTW, it's not about what I own or not, it's about what I've experienced.  I generally don't write about gear I've never seen, particularly in a way that might be construed in any way other then speculative.

 

[rhythmdevils]

Quote:

I'm on the list currently, and I'm anxiously awaiting the day they contact me with the "Your LCD2 is ready!" email.

  When I get it, and if it really blows me away, I might take it on a trip with me to Japan and Taiwan to compare it to the 007MKII and then decide if I still want to add the 007MKII to my collection, or the LCD2 is indeed "the one to rule them all" for me.

 
Nice.  I've kind of been following your journey a bit lately because we seem to have similar tastes.  But different audio budgets.  Or rather audio is not my profession, so I don't an excuse

  Anyways, can't wait to hear your impressions! 
 

 

[HK_sends]

Quote:

Do our tastes change over time? Or does more and continued exposure to premium gear alter our tastes?

Yes...

 
-HK sends

 

 

[thinker]

i am amazed how good the LCD-2 sounds even with i pod.Using some days the LCD with Moth i am not now quite sure if tube amps are most ideal partner.Havent heard the Leben amp yet but that experience wich i get with i pod indicates to something else.Theoretically  for my taste would be 2 mono i pods with more current.Unbelievable is that the magical sweet spot you get even with a good recording via i pod.Somehow the LCD deserves cutting sharp channel separation like mono amping and i dont believe that symmetrical use is a good a choice.The soundstage is huge in every direction or should i say you stay in the spot of the performance , its healthy to separate things in this case.

 

[BoilermakerFan]

 
Quote:

I think we got off on the wrong foot here.  I apologize for my part in that.  To clarify, my beef is with your purporting something to be fact when it's an educated guess, suspicion, or anything but fact.  In some of your posts, you can across like you were stating fact when it was actually your suspicion and opinion.  It's certainly fine to have, hold, and share an opinion or suspicion as long as it's clearly identified as such.
 
I shared your suspicion before my Asgard arrived.  I purposely let the amp fully saturate with heat and let it run a few more hours beyond that and checked (subjectively) the output.  It was not obviously diminished.  The amp still had plenty of reserve on hand to play continuously far louder that I could stand to listen.  I went so far as to take the headphones off, set them on the bench and crank the volume to max, both when the amp was cool and when it was hot.  I did not instrument or measure anything except by my ears so it was all subjective, but I don't seem to see the problem you suspect is there.
 
So I guess we both have opinions, one based on subjective experience, one based on suspicion alone.
 
BTW, the "Professional" SPL Auditor and Phonitor amps list their specs the same way.  Does that make them dishonest too?
 
Also BTW, it's not about what I own or not, it's about what I've experienced.  I generally don't write about gear I've never seen, particularly in a way that might be construed in any way other then speculative.

 
Fair enough Kevin, perhaps deceiving wasn't the correct word to use.  Misleading is probably a more appropriate choice.  I initially did not say they were dishonest (that occurred one page back, but has now been edited to reflect the better choice of words: misleading); however, presenting true peak power information without documenting the conditions allows for the data to be misinterpreted or misconstrued so that assumptions are made about its overall continuous power output.  That can be very misleading.  The peak power requirement for the amp is 35W and I have no doubt they measured the amp and achieved a 20V peak swing and 315mA bias at peak power output.  I stated I was suspicious that the amp would continue to deliver that level of peak power once it was warm. 
 
I believe any specifications for peak power that are not documented with the test conditions that achieved the results are "deceiving" or more appropriately worded, misleading.  Peak and RMS power levels with the documented test conditions and bandwidth for each test eliminates the confusion or misunderstanding that can be misconstrued or assumed from the marketing specifications. 
 
In this case even if the amp only delivers 1/10th of it's peak power, that is still 1.2W/ch and it is sufficient to drive the LCD-2s and probably most other dynamic headphones short of the K1000s.  Would you be able to hear the reduced power output?  Probably not until you hooked up speakers too it and played a very dynamic piece of music with a lot of transients, but I realize it's not intended to drive speakers. 
 
So we've had a long discussion of our opinions on the choice of words, they're meanings, and the marketing of a $250 amp.  I'll go back and edit my posts to use the word misleading instead of deceiving, and clarify that I'm simply suspicious that it can deliver that same level of peak power that comes with a 315mA bias level once the amp is hot and at a stabilized operating temperature.  We can agree to disagree about how amplifiers are marketed, but it doesn't pertain to the LCD-2s, so I'll stop derailing the discussion any further. 
 

 

[smeggy]

Mine is gonna get big feet and a nice heatsink to keep it chugging along at full-tilt. It may not need it but I like to keep things running at cooler levels. That and I'll find it impossible not to tinker

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Mine is gonna get big feet and a nice heatsink to keep it chugging along at full-tilt. It may not need it but I like to keep things running at cooler levels. That and I'll find it impossible not to tinker

I have similar inclinations.  On my SAC1000 amp I placed a 2" low speed muffin fan above it to keep air moving slowly.  It makes a BIG difference in how cool the amp runs to the touch.  I didn't measure junction or internal heat sink temps, but I'm sure removing all that heat helps prolong the life of the amp.
 
I will probably do something similar with the Asgard.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoilermakerFan /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Fair enough Kevin, perhaps deceiving wasn't the correct word to use.  Misleading is probably a more appropriate choice.  I initially did not say they were dishonest (that occurred one page back, but has now been edited to reflect the better choice of words: misleading); however, presenting true peak power information without documenting the conditions allows for the data to be misinterpreted or misconstrued so that assumptions are made about its overall continuous power output.  That can be very misleading.  The peak power requirement for the amp is 35W and I have no doubt they measured the amp and achieved a 20V peak swing and 315mA bias at peak power output.  I stated I was suspicious that the amp would continue to deliver that level of peak power once it was warm. 
 
I believe any specifications for peak power that are not documented with the test conditions that achieved the results are "deceiving" or more appropriately worded, misleading.  Peak and RMS power levels with the documented test conditions and bandwidth for each test eliminates the confusion or misunderstanding that can be misconstrued or assumed from the marketing specifications. 
 
In this case even if the amp only delivers 1/10th of it's peak power, that is still 1.2W/ch and it is sufficient to drive the LCD-2s and probably most other dynamic headphones short of the K1000s.  Would you be able to hear the reduced power output?  Probably not until you hooked up speakers too it and played a very dynamic piece of music with a lot of transients, but I realize it's not intended to drive speakers. 
 
So we've had a long discussion of our opinions on the choice of words, they're meanings, and the marketing of a $250 amp.  I'll go back and edit my posts to use the word misleading instead of deceiving, and clarify that I'm simply suspicious that it can deliver that same level of peak power that comes with a 315mA bias level once the amp is hot and at a stabilized operating temperature.  We can agree to disagree about how amplifiers are marketed, but it doesn't pertain to the LCD-2s, so I'll stop derailing the discussion any further. 

You're a good man, Charlie Brown, and I do appreciate your insights.

 

[achristilaw]

Quote:

I'm on the list currently, and I'm anxiously awaiting the day they contact me with the "Your LCD2 is ready!" email.

  When I get it, and if it really blows me away, I might take it on a trip with me to Japan and Taiwan to compare it to the 007MKII and then decide if I still want to add the 007MKII to my collection, or the LCD2 is indeed "the one to rule them all" for me.

Remember, better performance with better gear Bilbo!

 

[achristilaw]

 
Quote:

i am amazed how good the LCD-2 sounds even with i pod.Using some days the LCD with Moth i am not now quite sure if tube amps are most ideal partner.Havent heard the Leben amp yet but that experience wich i get with i pod indicates to something else.Theoretically  for my taste would be 2 mono i pods with more current.Unbelievable is that the magical sweet spot you get even with a good recording via i pod.Somehow the LCD deserves cutting sharp channel separation like mono amping and i dont believe that symmetrical use is a good a choice.The soundstage is huge in every direction or should i say you stay in the spot of the performance , its healthy to separate things in this case.

Transistors for the most part, not triodes. The Leben is ultra-linear pentode and the Headphone out comes from the tap of the output transformer!

 It offers chutzpah and a very healthy splash of reality I love with the Audez'e! The sound of the combo beams with flesh and an Orb of Life. I prefer the sound-field to that of Speakers....that has never happened using Headphone's previously.

 

[BoilermakerFan]

Quote:

You're a good man, Charlie Brown, and I do appreciate your insights.

Thanks.  All edited to remove as much confusion as I could.  I did leave the "D" word in a few posts and completely removing it might have further confused new readers, though I wish I could state a reason for the edits like we could in the old forums to clarify why they were edited. 
 

 

[smeggy]

I think this amp will be a nice compliment to my mac mini in the living room. Nice and small that I can hide away to keep wifey happy.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

I think this amp will be a nice compliment to my mac mini in the living room. Nice and small that I can hide away to keep wifey happy.

Have you seen this?   Saw it at CJ.

 
The DAC Mini is a 96/24 DAC with USB, coax, Toslink inputs, plus headphone amp with DAC and line-level RCA inputs and fixed-level RCA outputs. The DAC Mini’s physical form factor exactly mirrors the size/shape of Apples popular MAC Mini, which many enthusiasts are using as their music server of choice. Pricing isn’t finalized yet, but should be “around $850.”
 
Don't have any other real data on it yet, but it looks interesting and matches your mac mini reeeel nice!

 

[smeggy]

$850? Yoiks!
 
Rather get an old mac mini case and stuff a pico dac in it