[illbleed]

Not complaining at all. I was looking at the Jot, Deckard, and HA-1. I was leaning hard towards the HA-1, but felt I wpuld be paying more for features i wouldn't use on the desktop, unless i use it as a pre-amp too. I ended up winning the bid by accident, but I'm not upset. I was still unsure.

I gotcha, i must have missed where you said that. Well hopefully it was a good win my deckard will be here tomorrow.

 

[daddyo1973]

  Ever been able to compare your Jot with DAC vs a Deckard? I'm looking at the Deckard as my goal, but i've heard good things about the Jot and it is somewhat similarly priced. (For the LCD-2 of course).

No, was tempted to pick up a Deckard in Audeze's recent B-stock sale but opted to pass.  Over the holidays I want to compare a few DACs with the Jotunheim DAC module to get a better feel for it.

 

[WayTooCrazy]

  No, was tempted to pick up a Deckard in Audeze's recent B-stock sale but opted to pass.  Over the holidays I want to compare a few DACs with the Jotunheim DAC module to get a better feel for it.

I hope you dislike the Jotunheim! Then I'll feel better about going with the Deckard over the Jot.

 

[Blotto80]

So my new (used) 2.2 Non-Fazor just showed up today. I've been one of the staunch "you can pry my 2.1 from my cold dead hands" types but I found a deal on these I couldn't pass up. The biggest difference I'm finding so far is sound-stage. These have a much wider, 3Dish presentation, I always felt my 2.1 sounded a little more "closed-in" compared to something like my HD650 or HE400. These feel more open and easier to pinpoint instrument locations.  Initial impressions are positive. 

 

[drwlf]

   
And an update: on the same train with @CarlosUnchained, trying again to get a clear answer worked - I was offered a voucher for either LCD-2 for the Black Friday price or the upgrade path to LCD-X for extra 500$, just before they sent the e-mail message to all? Black Friday purchasers/people who had problems, about the same vouchers.
 
Opted for LCD-X for 999$, and the order status is now "Completed - Waiting to Ship", hence this message.
 
Unbelievably enough, after a prolonged hassle and a lot of uncertainties, Audeze honored their deal when I'd estimate, most other companies wouldn't. Some other companies might just cease communications, end a ticket abruptly, which I kinda was expecting, but wasn't the case with Audeze. My sincere thanks to Audeze, and it certainly made my year brighter. In the end, I guess it's a win-win situation for all, Audeze gaining a satisfied customer who might very well buy another product, and spreads favourable word of mouth in RL and here

 
Took a couple of weeks, but the Black Friday hassle is over on my part - got the LCD-X delivered.

 

[WayTooCrazy]

   
Took a couple of weeks, but the Black Friday hassle is over on my part - got the LCD-X delivered.

Awesome! Congrats on an Awesome pair of cans. Look forward to your impressions.

 

[drwlf]

 
Awesome! Congrats on an Awesome pair of cans. Look forward to your impressions.

Will do, already on it as we speak! Just gotta do away with new-toy-syndrome Still can't believe the wonderful customer service I got from Audeze.

 

[WayTooCrazy]

 
Will do, already on it as we speak! Just gotta do away with new-toy-syndrome Still can't believe the wonderful customer service I got from Audeze.

Agreed. That is why, I'm definitely picking up my next set of headphones from them. I also love their "house" sound.

 

[loplop]

Disclaimer: I'm a speaker guy, not a headphone guy. I have heard and owned many speakers and components but not much in the headphone world. The LCD2 is my first "audiophile" headphone. I am not trying to sound elitist or offend anyone who own these headphones.

The more I listen to these LCD2, the more I believe that the sound quality is NOT worth $1k. The "feel", quality of materials and build quality most definitely feel like an expensive product. But the sound is just okay. The mids are somewhat veiled. Highs sound sparkly at times and rolled off other times. Bass is clean but doesn't hit hard unless I turn the volume way up beyond what is comfortable for me. Headphones should cost less than speakers for the same sound quality. For $1k retail price of the LCD2, there are speakers that convey sound with much more realism, resolution, and clarity.

Maybe these just aren't for me or I'm asking too much from a headphone versus the fidelity I was used to on my stereo setup. Ive tried to ask around on various forums for a headphone recommendation based on my stereo speaker preferences but it's hard to find a group of people who are into both headphones and high end stereos. Is there a headphone that actually measures flat(+-3dB 40-20khz) in real world testing? The measurements on the LCD2 actually look pretty terrible, but I'm not sure if that's common for headphones.

Out of curiosity, does anyone here dabble in the audio hobby outside of headphones? If so, what speakers do you own and how would you compare them to the LCD2? Is there a general guideline on how much to spend on a headphone setup to match the sound quality of a stereo? For example would a $2,000(inclusive of amp,pre,dac) headphone setup be comparable to a $10,000 stereo?

This is probably a long shot, but to be specific, I'm looking to replicate the sound of RAAL tweeters(or any decent true ribbon tweeter), Accuton/Seas Excel level mid drivers in a headphone. For me, speakers (like Salk or Joseph) utilizing those drivers sound true to life, as if the performers are in the room playing live without amplification.

I'm a longtime (30+ years) speaker-based hifi guy.  Excepting my young walkman-based personal audio days, I generally only slid heavy into headphones after changing life circumstances (family) precluded the large devoted listening room.  Headphones are portable and by nature not as disruptive to the home environment, and I value that greatly nowadays.
 
In any case, if your reference is solely loudspeaker-based audio, as another poster above suggested, you will have to change your expectations somewhat.  For me, the two areas of particular importance were adjusting to the lack of physical bass and adjusting to having music so close to your head instead of all around you.  That's just something that takes time to adjust to.  In the process, I found that there were some benefits of headphones not revealed to me at initial blush.  I suspect that's the slope many find themselves on as they slide into headphonia
 
What amp are you running the LCD2F with?  I've found them quite revealing of the amp used to drive them; not particularly picky or hard to drive, mind you, but they do change a lot based upon what they are fed.  My experience with headphones vs loudspeakers is that the amp/headphone pairing is actually more critical in the headphone world; certainly amps make a difference in the hifi world, but I suspect the greater frequency response swings and much varying impedance among headphones cause the interaction to be more critical in the headphone world.  You may want to try a few amps and see if you can achieve a synergy you enjoy.
 
Having owned a pair of Joseph RM25XL some years ago, and having quite some experience with the Pearl's (and to a lesser extent, the Pulsar's) at a friend's house, I'd hazard a guess that you'd prefer something like the Senn HD800.  And with that recommendation amp partnering is REALLY key.  

We all hear differently, though, and to be honest I wouldn't characterize Joseph's as sounding like un-amplified performers, so you'll have to heavily rely on your ears in this situation
 
Hope that helps a bit

 

[loplop]

Agreed. That is why, I'm definitely picking up my next set of headphones from them. I also love their "house" sound.

 


Audeze gets a big thumbs up from me in all this, and I (as well) will look directly to Audeze for future purchases because of it. I know many were frustrated at delays and lack of communication--and certainly they didn't score high marks in that regard--but I think for those that just kicked back and waited for Audeze to do their thing, they're probably very pleased. I know I am. Audeze could have said "we screwed up, we don't have enough b-stock to fulfill your order" and left it at that. But they didn't, and I have a pair of LCD-X wrapped and waiting under the Christmas tree. I'm pumped about that

 

[loplop]

  WOW ! the Deckard probably is the most underrated HP Amp. even though it is SS,  but Class A amp and Lyr 2 is a tube amp ( Class A  6 Watts  Vs  4 watts for Deckard), the Deckard sounds more "balanced" more pleasing to my ears perhaps even more tubey  than  the Lyr 2 ???  it is very musical

I also grabbed a Deckard in the B-Stock sale, and I'm mighty impressed with it.  I haven't done a ton of critical listening, as I intend to use it in my office setup where I'm listening for pleasure or concentration, and not really critically following the music...  But with the terrible audiophile gene rearing its head a few times I did a little serious listening to it as a DAC/Amp and solely as an amp (fed by ifi Micro iDSD BL), and both were satisfying.  On balance I preferred the iDSD > Deckard vs the internal DAC, but the internal DAC is fine by itself and didn't have any glaring shortcomings or (even worse) "digititis"
 
The amp really strikes me as QUITE FINE, especially for the price.  Nice, silky midrange.  On the warm side of neutral.  Highs perhaps a bit muted compared to some amps, but really well matched for the LCD2F, at least.  Overall, hugely, hugely enjoyable for $390!

 

[donato]

  My current primary desktop headphone rig is an LCD 2 / Jotunheim combo.  I am a long time audiophile (nearly 20 years) and had a high end two channel system set up in a dedicated room and its last configuration was with planar magnetic speakers.  When I got the planar LCD 2's I was hoping I could reclaim some of that sound I enjoyed in my two channel glory days.  I think now that in most ways my primary headphone rig is a better performing set up.
 
You have to get past the whole speakers vs. headphone presentation thing.  If you can I think that headphones get you much deeper into the recording than speakers can with less hassle too.  A big reason is that you can just strap on a pair of headphones and get perfect acoustics and superbly integrated sonics from low bass all the way through the upper treble.  Ever got that with your first try at placing speakers in a room?  
 
I have friends who own Salk's and Joseph Audio speakers (which is why I had to reply), each system with vastly different electronics and price points.  But I can tell you that my headphone rig costs less than one, yes just one, of my friends speaker cables yet I think in some ways it sounds better than both set ups.  One of my friends reluctantly agrees, but the other says he "just does not get the headphone thing".
 
As I found in high end audio higher price does not always equal higher performance and I am finding the same applies in headphone gear.  I am not saying price does not make a difference, I think it does but up to a point.  Its not as easy as one simple multiplier.  My Jotunheim is better than my Dragon Fly Red, not twice as good, but I still like and use both regularly.  You have to get out and listen to as much gear as you can, then you will naturally find that price / performance balance.   

 
The speaker vs. headphone thing is an interesting dilemma.  I haven't heard a headphone yet that can present a soundstage like speakers.  My setup Monitor Audio PL300, jl audio f113 sub,  integra 80.2  with Audyssey x32 room correction sounds more neutral than almost all of my HPs (to be fair, I dont' use EQ though0, except maybe my ether flows driven by aurilac vega/woo wa22.  Of course, I can listen to my HP rig anytime of day or night.

 

[bassaddicted]

  I'm a longtime (30+ years) speaker-based hifi guy.  Excepting my young walkman-based personal audio days, I generally only slid heavy into headphones after changing life circumstances (family) precluded the large devoted listening room.  Headphones are portable and by nature not as disruptive to the home environment, and I value that greatly nowadays.
 
In any case, if your reference is solely loudspeaker-based audio, as another poster above suggested, you will have to change your expectations somewhat.  For me, the two areas of particular importance were adjusting to the lack of physical bass and adjusting to having music so close to your head instead of all around you.  That's just something that takes time to adjust to.  In the process, I found that there were some benefits of headphones not revealed to me at initial blush.  I suspect that's the slope many find themselves on as they slide into headphonia
 
What amp are you running the LCD2F with?  I've found them quite revealing of the amp used to drive them; not particularly picky or hard to drive, mind you, but they do change a lot based upon what they are fed.  My experience with headphones vs loudspeakers is that the amp/headphone pairing is actually more critical in the headphone world; certainly amps make a difference in the hifi world, but I suspect the greater frequency response swings and much varying impedance among headphones cause the interaction to be more critical in the headphone world.  You may want to try a few amps and see if you can achieve a synergy you enjoy.
 
Having owned a pair of Joseph RM25XL some years ago, and having quite some experience with the Pearl's (and to a lesser extent, the Pulsar's) at a friend's house, I'd hazard a guess that you'd prefer something like the Senn HD800.  And with that recommendation amp partnering is REALLY key.  

We all hear differently, though, and to be honest I wouldn't characterize Joseph's as sounding like un-amplified performers, so you'll have to heavily rely on your ears in this situation
 
Hope that helps a bit

Thanks. I'm using the Schiit Jot with integrated dac connected via balanced cable. I'm going to try out a new amp/dac before giving up on these phones.
 
I can accept that the spacial presentation from headphones will be lacking compared to speakers. However, should the voicing and clarity be lacking too? People were raving about the superb midrange of the LCD series phones, and honestly they are no where near a Seas Excel, Revelator, or Accuton speaker driver.  The mids of the LCD are veiled and muffled in comparison to those drivers. Also, around this forum, people seem to equate high frequency detail and clarity with treble boosting. But you can absolutely have INSANE high frequency detail, naturalness, nuance without the bright boosted highs. If anyone here has ever heard a speaker with a RAAL tweeter, you will know what I'm talking about. If you have not heard one, you're in for a real treat when you do. 
 
IMHO, the Joseph speakers are insanely overpriced considering their off the shelf drivers due to selling through a dealer network. 

 

[loplop]

  Thanks. I'm using the Schiit Jot with integrated dac connected via balanced cable. I'm going to try out a new amp/dac before giving up on these phones.
 
I can accept that the spacial presentation from headphones will be lacking compared to speakers. However, should the voicing and clarity be lacking too? People were raving about the superb midrange of the LCD series phones, and honestly they are no where near a Seas Excel, Revelator, or Accuton speaker driver.  The mids of the LCD are veiled and muffled in comparison to those drivers. Also, around this forum, people seem to equate high frequency detail and clarity with treble boosting. But you can absolutely have INSANE high frequency detail, naturalness, nuance without the bright boosted highs. If anyone here has ever heard a speaker with a RAAL tweeter, you will know what I'm talking about. If you have not heard one, you're in for a real treat when you do. 
 
IMHO, the Joseph speakers are insanely overpriced considering their off the shelf drivers due to selling through a dealer network. 

I've not heard the Schiit with my LCD2F's, so I can't comment specifically, on that combo.  
 
Generally: headphones are much more varied than loudspeakers (IMO) in frequency response, presentation, and perception or "feel."  Like if you could plot all similarly-priced louspeakers on a continuum they may fall somewhat like this ---{--}--- (between the braces) whereas headphones are more like {-----------}
 
As to the Audeze's: I don't hear what you hear, but we all have different expectations and experiences.  I tend to think of Audeze's as having a slightly recessed midrange, which can on some recordings reduce presence in that region, but with very fine detail and speed in that region which keeps me involved.  They are more laid back than some in overall presentation, with less edge definition and attack; to me this sounds natural, to others it may veiled.  Your description tends to suggest that you'd be more satisfied with a dynamic driver, specifically the HD800.
 
It takes some time (years, maybe) to settle in comfortably to headphones, so IMO just kick back and listen for awhile.  You may eventually find positives with the Audeze's that your speaker-based systems lack.  Enjoy the ride.  

 

[Odin412]

Out of curiosity, does anyone here dabble in the audio hobby outside of headphones? If so, what speakers do you own and how would you compare them to the LCD2? Is there a general guideline on how much to spend on a headphone setup to match the sound quality of a stereo? For example would a $2,000(inclusive of amp,pre,dac) headphone setup be comparable to a $10,000 stereo?

 
I happen to use both headphones and speakers and I own an LCD-2F as well. My speakers are Zu Audio Omen Dirty Weekend driven by a Peachtree Decco 65 amp, which in turn is fed by a Schiit Modi Multibit DAC. My LCD-2Fs are driven (balanced) by a Cavalli Liquid Carbon amp fed by a Schiit Bifrost Multibit DAC. I guess that price-wise the two systems are roughly comparable. I find that the sound from speakers and headphones are very different and I tend to use them for different purposes. Speakers give a much bigger sense of space and the feeling of the performers being in the room right in front of you. Also, you get the physical feeling of deep bass - and you can share the experience with others! I don't get the same feeling from headphones at all. On the other hand, I feel that headphones can dig deeper into a recording and get me up close and personal with the music. Sometimes I feel like I'm in the control room with the recording engineer. Also, I can use headphones when I don't want to disturb others, and when I just want to shut the world out and drift away into the music. For me it's not speakers or headphones, it's both but for different purposes.