[kingdixon]

I stand to be corrected but it’s likely because the amp doesn’t have enough power to drive the LCDs properly, not the other way round.

Well,

I definitley thought of this because it happened to me before when i tried to pair the mad dogs with the shozy alien, at higher volume it distorted badly along the whole spectrum, but in this case just along the high notes when vocals reach this peak, i start hearing zzzzzzzzzz along the high notes, i will try the same song with idsd micro and check the result.

I think that you are playing the LCD-2 to the point that its distorting. I've only used the QP1R in the store and its one of the more powerful DAPs that I've ever heard and I used a HD650 at the time and couldn't get the volume above 70 IIRC before my ears were starting to hurt. While you can check how much power the HD650 and LCD-2 can handle the QP1R is putting out less power at 300ohms (HD650) versus 70ohms (LCD-2) so using the position of the volume knob does not mean much as to how much power each can handle.

Yee thats a nice point, i am not that good in physics, but i will try to get the numbers and check if the output power at high gain will exceed what lcd 2 can handle or not.

Thanks guys

 

[gLer]

Well,

I definitley thought of this because it happened to me before when i tried to pair the mad dogs with the shozy alien, at higher volume it distorted badly along the whole spectrum, but in this case just along the high notes when vocals reach this peak, i start hearing zzzzzzzzzz along the high notes, i will try the same song with idsd micro and check the result.




Yee thats a nice point, i am not that good in physics, but i will try to get the numbers and check if the output power at high gain will exceed what lcd 2 can handle or not.

Thanks guys

The LCD can easily take up to 4W of power - and up to 15W in a short burst. I can assure you your DAP doesn’t begin to output even a fraction of this power. Even the iDSD Micro only pushes 4W into 16ohms, and closer to 1W at the LCD’s 70ohm rating.

 

[DavidA]

The LCD can easily take up to 4W of power - and up to 15W in a short burst. I can assure you your DAP doesn’t begin to output even a fraction of this power. Even the iDSD Micro only pushes 4W into 16ohms, and closer to 1W at the LCD’s 70ohm rating.

How much power a headphone can handle doesn't mean its not starting to distort before you reach this limit.

 

[gLer]

How much power a headphone can handle doesn't mean its not starting to distort before you reach this limit.

Yes I agree, but I think you'll struggle to find a DAP that can drive the LCDs to distortion. I would go deaf before I can hear any distortion in my LCD-2s, and that's off my 3.8W desktop amp.

 

[DavidA]

Yes I agree, but I think you'll struggle to find a DAP that can drive the LCDs to distortion. I would go deaf before I can hear any distortion in my LCD-2s, and that's off my 3.8W desktop amp.

Agree that I would also go deaf and I don't hear any distortion either but I don't get above 85dB, The person was going almost full volume on the QP1R which is crazy loud, probably around 110dB+ would be my guess which is why I think its distortion from the headphone side rather than the QP1R which IIRC is one of the few DAPs that use a "current mode amp"

 

[gLer]

Agree that I would also go deaf and I don't hear any distortion either but I don't get above 85dB, The person was going almost full volume on the QP1R which is crazy loud, probably around 110dB+ would be my guess which is why I think its distortion from the headphone side rather than the QP1R which IIRC is one of the few DAPs that use a "current mode amp"

Still not convinced. I also listen around 85db (which I consider 'normal' volume), and on occasion (and for very short bursts) I've pushed the headphones well beyond 100db (probably closer to 110-120dB) and they haven't even flinched. Given a well mastered track with plenty of DR and an equally powerful amp, your eardrums will distort before the headphones do.

Edit: according to the Questyle website: "Output Power: Pout=40mW@32Ω" in high gain mode. I'm not quite sure how this works together with current mode, but 40mW@32Ω seems quite low, so I'm sure there's more power kicking in from somewhere. Still, you really want an amp that delivers at least 1W of power @ 70Ω to give the LCDs the room they need to breathe and do their best work. Again I can't really say what would qualify as "underpowered" and result in distortion, but I can assure you the DAP is not going to be overpowered for the headphones. Regardless, if he's hitting 110dB, distortion is the least of his worries. Permanent hearing loss would be my concern.

 

[kingdixon]

Agree that I would also go deaf and I don't hear any distortion either but I don't get above 85dB, The person was going almost full volume on the QP1R which is crazy loud, probably around 110dB+ would be my guess which is why I think its distortion from the headphone side rather than the QP1R which IIRC is one of the few DAPs that use a "current mode amp"

First, thanks for this conversation, iam learning alot from it,

I found it also weird when people say they listen at around 70 or 80, i feel that sounds very low, i always use high gain and for my iems i listen at around 60 or 70, but for lcd and hd650 iam starting to feel satisfied from 110 and up, so ymmv , may be my ear has weakend over time.

Also without reply gain it depends on the songs playing, some songs at 110 seems so loud so i keep changin the volume if the song needs it.

the clipping or distortion is not happening to all songs on volume 120, alot of songs play fine with no distortion, and in the songs i noticed it only happens with female vocal high peak not along the spectrum or even in the bass region, so imo it is not related to power..

 

[DavidA]

First, thanks for this conversation, iam learning alot from it,

I found it also weird when people say they listen at around 70 or 80, i feel that sounds very low, i always use high gain and for my iems i listen at around 60 or 70, but for lcd and hd650 iam starting to feel satisfied from 110 and up, so ymmv , may be my ear has weakend over time.

Also without reply gain it depends on the songs playing, some songs at 110 seems so loud so i keep changin the volume if the song needs it.

the clipping or distortion is not happening to all songs on volume 120, alot of songs play fine with no distortion, and in the songs i noticed it only happens with female vocal high peak not along the spectrum or even in the bass region, so imo it is not related to power..

Based on your description that the distortion is only on some tracks and female vocals it seems like you are trying to describe sibilance and its got noting to do with power or how loud but more the recording is not the greatest. You probably don't notice it on the HD650 since it has highs that are rolled off a little more than the LCD-2 and its one of the most forgiving headphone of poor / sub-par recordings.

You should get a dB meter to check the level you are listening at since listening at high levels will usually cause some hearing damage over time. If you have a smart phone just download an app, its not very accurate but for getting a ball park figure its good enough. I also use a closed cell foam sheet to keep external sounds from affecting the readings:

Most phones don't have very good microphones (mine is only 100hz - 3khz) so try to use songs with a wide range of frequencies to get a better reading and some dB meter apps let you also do some calibration to get better results.
Also, you can check OSHA or other agencies to see what is the recommend Max listening levels, IIRC its about 85dB for no more than an hour. My normal listen level is 55-65dB with peaks around 70dB. If you listen at higher levels going down to this level will make almost all headphones sound dull and lifeless but after a while you get used to it and they all begin to sound normal again. If you want to keep enjoying listening to music I'd really consider listening at lower levels to prevent hearing damage/loss.

 

[kingdixon]

Based on your description that the distortion is only on some tracks and female vocals it seems like you are trying to describe sibilance and its got noting to do with power or how loud but more the recording is not the greatest. You probably don't notice it on the HD650 since it has highs that are rolled off a little more than the LCD-2 and its one of the most forgiving headphone of poor / sub-par recordings.

You should get a dB meter to check the level you are listening at since listening at high levels will usually cause some hearing damage over time. If you have a smart phone just download an app, its not very accurate but for getting a ball park figure its good enough. I also use a closed cell foam sheet to keep external sounds from affecting the readings:

Most phones don't have very good microphones (mine is only 100hz - 3khz) so try to use songs with a wide range of frequencies to get a better reading and some dB meter apps let you also do some calibration to get better results.
Also, you can check OSHA or other agencies to see what is the recommend Max listening levels, IIRC its about 85dB for no more than an hour. My normal listen level is 55-65dB with peaks around 70dB. If you listen at higher levels going down to this level will make almost all headphones sound dull and lifeless but after a while you get used to it and they all begin to sound normal again. If you want to keep enjoying listening to music I'd really consider listening at lower levels to prevent hearing damage/loss.

I will try to listen to lower volume and give it some time, see if i can enjoy it ..

But definitley it is not sibilance, it is some kind of rattle or noise not a sssssss but a zzzzzz .. iam pretty sensitive to sibilance it hurts my ear but this makes you annoyed like something might be wrong with the headphones.

When iam back home later i will try to record how it plays, if i could i will post a record here so you can check it out.

 

[DavidA]

I will try to listen to lower volume and give it some time, see if i can enjoy it ..

But definitley it is not sibilance, it is some kind of rattle or noise not a sssssss but a zzzzzz .. iam pretty sensitive to sibilance it hurts my ear but this makes you annoyed like something might be wrong with the headphones.

When iam back home later i will try to record how it plays, if i could i will post a record here so you can check it out.

I think your description is pointing to something that might be an issue with the drivers but usually problems with a driver is usually noted for all songs, not just female vocals. The only reason I brought up sibilance is you say its only with female vocals.

 

[gLer]

I will try to listen to lower volume and give it some time, see if i can enjoy it ..

But definitley it is not sibilance, it is some kind of rattle or noise not a sssssss but a zzzzzz .. iam pretty sensitive to sibilance it hurts my ear but this makes you annoyed like something might be wrong with the headphones.

When iam back home later i will try to record how it plays, if i could i will post a record here so you can check it out.

I suspect it’s not distortion as well - at least not the sort of distortion you’d typically associate with clipping from over/under powered amplification or driver limits. I think you’re hearing what I sometimes hear with my LCDs at higher volumes with female vocals - shouty or glary upper mids. Sounds a bit metallic and echoey, as if your ears are in a small chamber and all the noise is slightly distorted? It definitely affects the LCD-2, and is what I consider one of its only flaws. Only happens with certain female voices, usaually higher-pitched ones. You’ll likely not hear it on the 650 because it controls that part of the frequency better - or rolls it off a bit more. I think it has something to do with the LCD’s upper midrange/lower treble dip. See if you can record it - or at least list a song or two (and time markers) where this happens and I’ll try it out with my own LCDs.

 

[kingdixon]

I think your description is pointing to something that might be an issue with the drivers but usually problems with a driver is usually noted for all songs, not just female vocals. The only reason I brought up sibilance is you say its only with female vocals.

@gLer

Well, i tried to record it but with no luck, needs some equipment, but i made some tests with idsd micro on turbo gain "highest one", through line out and even through headphone out by double amping while using highest volume and gain on qp1r, and it sounded clean .. while volume matching or even much higher volume then using qp1r alone it is still clear ..

Only distorts through qp1r at max gain and volume.

Also I have to mention is it not a big distortion, it is small but audible.

Ps: i though it was a 16 bit flac but turn out it is an mp3 one.

 

[gLer]

@gLer

Well, i tried to record it but with no luck, needs some equipment, but i made some tests with idsd micro on turbo gain "highest one", through line out and even through headphone out by double amping while using highest volume and gain on qp1r, and it sounded clean .. while volume matching or even much higher volume then using qp1r alone it is still clear ..

Only distorts through qp1r at max gain and volume.

Also I have to mention is it not a big distortion, it is small but audible.

Ps: i though it was a 16 bit flac but turn out it is an mp3 one.

Interesting. Could be the file, although if it’s a good MP3 I doubt it. More than likely you’ve hit the limit of your dap’s amp - you really should never get an amp to full volume, especially at high gain. If it’s clean through the iDSD in turbo mode, the you can safely say it’s clipping because the amp in the dap has reached its limit, and you’ll notice it most in certain songs with certain frequencies (the LCDs weak point is that upper mid/treble region). If you’re not getting enough volume with the volume pot at 1-3 o’clock in high gain (about 70-80% max) theni suggest using more sensitive headphones that are easier to drive. I love my LCDs but would never listen to them off a dap (although the iDSD Micro is more than powerful enough to drive them well).

 

[kingdixon]

Interesting. Could be the file, although if it’s a good MP3 I doubt it. More than likely you’ve hit the limit of your dap’s amp - you really should never get an amp to full volume, especially at high gain. If it’s clean through the iDSD in turbo mode, the you can safely say it’s clipping because the amp in the dap has reached its limit, and you’ll notice it most in certain songs with certain frequencies (the LCDs weak point is that upper mid/treble region). If you’re not getting enough volume with the volume pot at 1-3 o’clock in high gain (about 70-80% max) theni suggest using more sensitive headphones that are easier to drive. I love my LCDs but would never listen to them off a dap (although the iDSD Micro is more than powerful enough to drive them well).

Ye i think thats whats happening, i just got the qp1r couple of month ago, and it is just pretty awesome that a dap can drive such headphones even to half its potential and sounds that good, specially at times you dont want to carry lots of stuff around just the dap, but i normally use cavalli LC ..

Well, I will keep the volume a bit lower to avoid this, it is good to know that everything is working fine.

Thanks guys you have been of much help !

 

[cheungbe]

Has anyone compared the lohb strap vs. the carbon fiber headband? Thoughts?