[Softable]

Those are my thoughts when using the regular cable. They sound good on the regular cable but no where near as good as they do with the Cipher cable. I have the Chord Mojo and to me the Cipher cable is still the difference maker when you want to achieve the best sound from the iSine 20's

Huh ok. I guess I will have to wait for my Chord Mojo to really tell the difference. Thanks.

 

[golfinggino]

I went to the store and listened to them today - after 15 seconds I knew I would buy them
I bought the 10's as they were on sale for $70 off and I didn't feel like paying $900 for the 20's - Canadian prices lol

I haven't played with the different ear tips - just snapped the ear loops on and started listening

connected to my galaxy s8 it sounds great

connected to my fiio x5 in combo with my fiio e17k it sounds excellent

connected to my surface book with jds labs the element amp with foobar2000 player it sounds outstanding - I cant believe the sound coming out of these - super bass - big soundstage. These things seem to like power - I am playing them on high gain on the jds labs amp

I will fiddle with the eartips and compare to my hifiman 400s

 

[davehutch]

Those are my thoughts when using the regular cable. They sound good on the regular cable but no where near as good as they do with the Cipher cable. I have the Chord Mojo and to me the Cipher cable is still the difference maker when you want to achieve the best sound from the iSine 20's

Yes, the Cipher cable has built in EQ so they will sound very different to the 3.5mm cable. Take a look around post #1280 where the EQs are shown and you might be able to dial in the same EQ using your favourite music playing software. I've done a rough equivalent on iTunes and they sound pretty good now straight out of my Mac. As I'm an iPhone user though my intention is to use them pretty much exclusive y from the iPhone with the Cipher. Perfect!

 

[AlwaysForward]

Thanks for posting this, great review!
If you want more subbass, the cipher eq is quite v-shaped and really brings out the bass. Comply tips should also do the trick like AlwaysForward said. If you want to keep the most of the treble, I think the comply Comforts darken the sound less than the sports (Please correct me if I'm wrong AlwaysForward). With the cipher eq, I use large comforts (used size large on the stock tips aswell) but I've cut off 1-2mm of the tips to brighten the

Hey thanks for the shout. The comfort are definitely the brighter/taller sounding tips compared to the sport. I think you probably hit the nail In the head WRT your mod using increased airflow to to increase brightness.

I think that's why I like the sport so much. They physically cover a larger surface area with the connective seal, which seems to bring treble more in line to where I prefer them and extend the bass response anyOne could be looking for. Again, I'm EDM focused at the moment and if I was more heavy on rock, jazz, blues: comfort all the way. Pretty neat we can use tip rolling to play with the experience like filters might similarly affect other TOTL iem's.

Recapping:
So sport: EDM, Pop, Modern Rock/Metal, Hip Hop/ Rap
Comfort: Rock, Blues, Jazz, Country

Both work across all genres, this is just how I'm perceiving their best/highest performance relative to my experiences with these genres across tips.

One last thing, and it's probably a little nitpicky, is that the cipher is not v-shaped in its DSP EQ treatment. The EQ is posted a ways back by the developer. He also comments on how the methodology on the equalizer shape was developed through both rigorous measurements for flat measurements via tools as well as key product development contributors whom formally studied audio engineering.

 

[kubig123]

I had forgotten to give my feedback from that session. Tomorrow, I'll be hopefully returning to the shop to go pick up my LCD-i4, and discover a new path in this costly hobby, passion and pursuit.



Neither of the 2 iSine units had the new Groovy ear tips. So I assume these units were from the initial release batch.

The iSine 10 was opened a good 24h before my arrival, and put on burn-in on a nice desktop Woo Audio amp I couldn't recognize. This iSine 10 didn't have the cypher cable. As I don't own an iphone, it's all ok.
The iSine 20 was an unopened unit (no burn in), and that one did indeed have the cypher cable.
The store owner was intent on emphasising the burn-in diffference. I didn't hold it against him, and didn't say anything back about that. For me, the way the brain acclimatises to sounds overtime and how my mood, psychology and health vs allergies & cold swings daily far outweighs any perceivable value of material burn-in.

I had my Sony WM1A walkman and my Empire Ears Zeus R ciems connected through my Norne Therium 8cond 4.4mm TRRRS cable for comparison. I also had brought my iFi micro iDSD Black Label and my Spinfits tips but I didn't get the time to use them during that session.

iSine comfort:

Having been using ciems almost exclusively for two years now, I'm very used to the isolation comfort and instant seal they provide. Just plug em n twist. The shell locks in tight at the cymba meeting the helix spot and at the intertragic notch. Not much risk of them falling out.

So trying out the iSine 10 and 20 was something counter-intuitively new to me, as in, I didn't feel the need to push em in, I didn't try to push the stock ear tips and big bore to try to reach the 2nd bend of the canal. It's a feeling as if they were just hanging outside. It reminded me of when I was wearing clip over the ear earphones when I was a kid. Yet being so light, they didn't fall despite not wearing the over ear hook or the SureFire Earlock. Of course I was just sitting still, looking around the room, I wouldn't dare try to wear them like this while walking about.

There's are 3 things that got me worried though, and I find it important to discuss. All the more when you consider how these aren't cheap earphones in the first place, and in my case as I'm about to spend 2500 euros into the LCD-i4, the idea of them falling to the ground is a terrorising prospect:

1) The soft rubber Surefire Earlock. The way it's designed with the 3/4 circle part that is supposed to lock around the sound bore. It rotates/slides too easily. The whole part isn't as rigid as I'd expect it for functionality.
This was especially unconcerting to me as I'm used to wearing ciems daily. I was just expecting the Earlock's tip to firmly lodge in the cymba against the helix, providing a secure feel. I failed getting it right, it kept rotating or bending.
I'm not sure I need to hope for sweat and skin decay overtime to make it sticky so I won't have to worry them sliding out. Ideally I just want to use say Groovy/Spinfit/Spiral dot tips + SureFire Earlocks for walking.

Disclaimer: I only used the one in the iSine 10 box. The iSine 20 was just opened in front of me and I didn't want to devalue it by playing around with its accessories too.

2) That 3/4 circle design around the sound bore is also used in the over the ear hooks. I'm apprehensive of a downward force pulling like cable getting stuck on something would make those ear hooks slide up coming loose. Wouldn't a full circle provide better strength? It'd would've been still easily attachable by sliding it around from over the sound bore.

3) The 2 pin socket facing down + stock 3.5mm TRS cable.
That flat ribbon like cable had the 2pin connector which in my opinion came out too easily from the iSine 10 or 20's socket. Now thankfully, when I used my own cable, the Eidolic peek TeCu 2pin connector was a robust tight secure fit. I'd be just worried in case of the event where somehow the earlock or hook get dislodged, and the iSine start falling down. Trying to catch them by holding the default cable might be in vain.
Why couldn't they make the socket face up, so we'd wear the cable over the ear. Also helps cut down on cable microphonics this way.

ps: big respect to Keita Suyama-san for his tinkering. I can only dream to have ciem shell moulded to fit the LCD-i4, and that cap mod to turn the iSine into closed planar while keeping the sound sig matching. #cantstopprogress

I didn't get to do any tip rolling, but I was very happy with how light they were. I'm normally using SS sized Spinfits on uiems, yet I was surprised to see that the big looking sound bore of the iSine wasn't giving me any discomfort while using the medium stock tips. I'm curious if the Groovy tips will fit my ears though. I plan to order the new dual flange Spinfits. Hopefully they'll fit the Audezes.

Sound impressions:

Detailing/giving feedback in the same order as I've tried em.

iSine 10 + stock cable 3.5mm TRS + stock medium tips + Sony WM1A direct mode no EQ/DSP

Quite smooth, no harshness, big spherical sound stage
While listening to some Project Az tracks, I noticed cymbal strikes had an extra scintillating aspect.
The sound presentation took me by surprise. I wasn't hearing the sound from my head but from outside of it. A little bit as if I was just listening to music from my pc speakers in the room, not from a source sitting in my ears, or on my ears. When I plugged my Zeus R back, the sound felt so boxed in. Which is crazy because the Zeus R has a wide sound stage in the iem category, and this was further enhanced with the 4.4mm balanced cable I was using them.
So if the 3.5mm stock cable on iSine 10 gave such a big sound stage feel, how would they fare when I plugged them to my Therium 4.4mm cable on the balanced output of the Sony?

iSine 10 + Norn Therium8 4.4mm TRRRS Bal + stock medium tips + Sony WM1A direct mode no EQ/DSP

Well it wasn't pleasant. Sure the separation between instruments improvement and so did the width and depth, but the nice airiness of the 3.5mm iSine 10 turned into a hot fatiguing treble on my 4.4mm balanced silver Therium. I wanted more smoothed out hi-hats, cymbal also on some piano notes. But this was too bright for me. I wanted to try the iSine20 now.

iSine 20 + Norn Therium8 4.4mm Bal + stock medium tips + Sony WM1A direct mode no EQ/DSP
This is it. Like my Zeus R signature, smoother yet with great extension. I got intrigued when I heard newer distinct voice track lines on parts of As Cities Burn tracks or more clear voice separation on Broods' "Medicine".

I've also noticed that I wanted to pump more volume at the iSines. My WM1A on High Gain, 70-100 volume ticks. Balanced to singled ended. These sure like power. No distortion as I kept wanting to increase, but I had to stop, or I know I'd damage my ears and regret it. No hiss at any volume.

Overall I quite liked the sound signature of the iSine 10 and 20. But my preference goes to the iSine20. It's lightly fun/lifted, providing a balanced presentation akin to the Empire Zeus R or a Noble Katana.

When I then wanted to compare the iSine 20 vs the 10 for drum & bass with Koan Sound's Forgotten Myths EP, I noticed something weird.
The 3.5mm TRS stock cable with the iSine 10 gave a very boosted impactful bass. Reminding me of the ASG 2.5 I had tried at the first CanJam London. That one or K10, Andromeda, Oriolus aren't my cup of tea. It's just fatiguing after 2 minutes. The iSine 20 didn't wasn't this punchy, not in 4.4mm Bal, nor in 3.5mm SE. Can't blame burn-in can we ^^?
It's a very hard balance for me to get a pleasurable EDM Drum&Bass listening session with iems. On my Zeus R, I'd want a bit more sub bass lift. Same with the iSine 20. Not sure if tip rolling would help enough. Too much bass boost and it ruins it all and I enjoy the first track and get fatigued by the 2nd one. But I also know it's a type of music I enjoy feeling with my guts. Bass rattling the whole body.

Isolation from outside sounds
No isolation, I could hear my finger flicks over the left and right side clearly.
I could talk clearly with the shop owner.

Leaking music to outside environment
Listening to pop electro, softer music, they didn't leak much when I was holding them at my stretched out arm's range.
Listening to post-hardcore or metal though, I could hear them. Sort of like people listening to ear buds loudly in public transport.

So I hope I'll be able to listen to these in the tram if careful, and in the car too. Also for a walk in the park. I'd be afraid of using them daily in public though. Would the dust and city pollution clog up those open meshes fast? Would some malevolent individuals recognise them by the A logo and try to mug me? That's the advantage of using ciems, no one knows their value here ^^

In conclusion, if the stupid custom taxes weren't this high, I'd have ordered both the iSine 10 and 20 and try them fully for 30 days, in every situation/environment I plan to use this type of open in-ears, to know wisely if making the leap for the LCD-i4 is worth it. The iSine just refuses to be in the iem category. Woe to the other iems that wouldn't allow it. I just can't imagine not wanting to wear them if in a quieter environment. I'm keeping the Empire Zeus ciems for noisy settings, daily commuting. But I plan to use a Audeze planar in-ear for PC gaming and music, at home and for peaceful time at the park or in my suburban neighbourhood walks.
Audeze is branding the iSine like an in-ear headphone (IEH) and I agree. Its sound is too big to be considered an iem.

thanks for your review, after listening to the isine20 I had the same impressions, if the isine10/20 need power, be ready for the lcdi4, they are even more hungry!!!

 

[miprasetya]

I had compare between Lg g6, Fiio X5 3rd, Iphone 6 +cypher cable, the result is quite is...between G6 and X5 not much improvement... on X5 the sounds is smoother but the soundstage is bigger on G6. With the iphone6 I feel the soundstage and the bass feels a lot more natural...more airy and the bass doesnt pushed into my ears directly...makes them very different from my previous IEM...definitely prefer with the last one.

 

[makne]

Hello all,

I just received my iSine 20s today, and I am kind of confused. When I got them, before even listening to them changed the tip so I got the best seal I could. I then plugged them into my iPad with the cipher cable and thought "Wow. These sound like my Z1Rs. These are amazing." So I fired up my computer to listen more there with the standard cable and they sounded WAYY different (Using the Fulla 2). They sound more like the SHP9500s without a DAC/AMP of any kind. What the heck? They sound amazing out of my iPad but not out of my Fulla 2? Do they need a better amp? My Chord Mojo should be arriving tomorrow so if it is a source thing than it should be fixed, but man.. The difference is so clear....

This is 100% because of the eq profile built into the cipher cable (not the audeze app). Using the same eq signature with a better source and amp than the cipher (like a mojo) will give you the ultimate sound quality. Here is the original cipher eq:
If you don't have a parametric eq, you can use equalizerAPO on your pc, it's free and system wide. It's what I use. There has also been posted two alternatives to the original, to tame the 4k peak that bothers some people (I prefer the original).

 

[makne]

Hello guys i ordered the isine 20s yesterday and they should arrive in couple of days...

I heard a lot of different things about them.

Some say they have a peak at around 2k and no treble and others say they have great mids and smooth relaxed treble.
I know its hard to compare them to other iems...
Me personally i own headphones like th900 and hd 800...
Those arent really treble shy...
Final audio design fi-ba-ss is my current iem a lot of treble and great midrange...
But i want something smoother so how does the isines compare to full sized cans?
Are they more like an hd 800 with less treble and more bass or more like the lcd2 where the treble for me was lacking a bit...
Btw im planing on using it with the questyle qp1r so no cipher for me at least for now

Thanks a lot to everyone

The 1k or 2k peak/resonance is only noticeable without cipher cable or cipher eq. It seems to disturb some people more than others. To me it was very prominent and unnatural sounding at first, now it doesn't really bother me (idk if it's burn-in or my brain adjusting). Without eq, they are smooth and warm, more like LCD-2 I guess. With cipher eq, they sound very close to Focal Elear to me, but with better bass extension. So no HD800 here, definitely smoother, warmer, more bass (but not as dark as LCD-2).

 

[makne]

Hey thanks for the shout. The comfort are definitely the brighter/taller sounding tips compared to the sport. I think you probably hit the nail In the head WRT your mod using increased airflow to to increase brightness.

I think that's why I like the sport so much. They physically cover a larger surface area with the connective seal, which seems to bring treble more in line to where I prefer them and extend the bass response anyOne could be looking for. Again, I'm EDM focused at the moment and if I was more heavy on rock, jazz, blues: comfort all the way. Pretty neat we can use tip rolling to play with the experience like filters might similarly affect other TOTL iem's.

Recapping:
So sport: EDM, Pop, Modern Rock/Metal, Hip Hop/ Rap
Comfort: Rock, Blues, Jazz, Country

Both work across all genres, this is just how I'm perceiving their best/highest performance relative to my experiences with these genres across tips.

One last thing, and it's probably a little nitpicky, is that the cipher is not v-shaped in its DSP EQ treatment. The EQ is posted a ways back by the developer. He also comments on how the methodology on the equalizer shape was developed through both rigorous measurements for flat measurements via tools as well as key product development contributors whom formally studied audio engineering.

I can't imagine anyone wanting/needing more bass than cipher+comforts lol... The bass is so deep and impactful and perfect... tried listening to Future on them? Especially The songs Wicked and Solo, the deep bassline is so strong. I can literally feel my face vibrate and a slight tickle in my chest.

 

[Softable]

This is 100% because of the eq profile built into the cipher cable (not the audeze app). Using the same eq signature with a better source and amp than the cipher (like a mojo) will give you the ultimate sound quality. Here is the original cipher eq:
If you don't have a parametric eq, you can use equalizerAPO on your pc, it's free and system wide. It's what I use. There has also been posted two alternatives to the original, to tame the 4k peak that bothers some people (I prefer the original).

What are the EQ settings of the cipher cable? I have never used any EQ sofware before. Is there a way that you could send me the cipher EQ profile? (I'm kinda a noob when it comes to this stuff, sound EQ and things of the sort).

Thanks.

 

[makne]

What are the EQ settings of the cipher cable? I have never used any EQ sofware before. Is there a way that you could send me the cipher EQ profile? (I'm kinda a noob when it comes to this stuff, sound EQ and things of the sort).

Thanks.

The pictures i posted are the eq, the top one is the original (the one in the cipher cable). The line is how the signature looks, the boxes under are the filters used. All the filters in the original are peak filters. They have a frequency (Hz) which is where they are on the line. The gain (dB) is how much they pull on the line. Q is how wide/narrow the peak/dip will be, higher Q means narrower dip/peak. I recommend using equalizerApo, just google and download it. There are some pretty decent youtube tutorials on how to use it.

 

[makne]

What are the EQ settings of the cipher cable? I have never used any EQ sofware before. Is there a way that you could send me the cipher EQ profile? (I'm kinda a noob when it comes to this stuff, sound EQ and things of the sort).

Thanks.

Here's the text file you can upload in equalizerApo, so you don't have to write all the filters yourself CIPHER – original.txt

 

[Cagin]

Ok back from my local audio shop (Belhifi), and I didn't try the iSine 10 or 20 for a second time. Tried the LCD-i4 I had ordered for 2h30 in there, felt super satisfied, paid and brought em home

I quite like so far the rubber earhooks, they aren't irritating even after a long session (5+h). The rubber earhook is quite sticky, I don't feel they would slide off actually. I'm relieved.

I'll try to use the SureFire Earlocks tomorrow and give them another try.

But sadly I can't say the same thing about the groovy tips. I put on the the smallest one yesterday right after opening the LCD-i4's box.
I can feel the tiny lines and they started to chafe me 15min in. I still kept using them and listened about 9h in between sessions.
Well my ears were sore today. So I tried to put on the a pair of sport Comply I had received last year at Canjam London, but I couldn't manage to attach them to the bore.
I then tried my go to Spinfit SS, hassled a bit but did get them on. Now mind you my ears were still sore, but at least it was comfortable enough to wear them 6h straight.
Now I'm still going through all my library, genre by genre, but so far, the Spinfits are good good good.

I'll post my LCD-i4 impressions in its thread, but I'm still subscribed to this one ^^

 

[clerkpalmer]

This is 100% because of the eq profile built into the cipher cable (not the audeze app). Using the same eq signature with a better source and amp than the cipher (like a mojo) will give you the ultimate sound quality. Here is the original cipher eq:
If you don't have a parametric eq, you can use equalizerAPO on your pc, it's free and system wide. It's what I use. There has also been posted two alternatives to the original, to tame the 4k peak that bothers some people (I prefer the original).

Total noob here on eq. I am using USB audio pro. Can someone help me achieve this eq for analogue? Thanks.

 

[AlwaysForward]

I can't imagine anyone wanting/needing more bass than cipher+comforts lol... The bass is so deep and impactful and perfect... tried listening to Future on them? Especially The songs Wicked and Solo, the deep bassline is so strong. I can literally feel my face vibrate and a slight tickle in my chest.

Lol! Yeah, they certainly add a visceral "headphone" quality don't they?

My mentality was "I spent $600 on these and they're some of my first IEM Along with the 1more Quad - I'm gonna tip roll until 100% happy and $20 experimenting are just experiment investments until I have all the information"

The comforts were my first 100% moment. The sport aren't "better" but for my tastes, I prefer them. IMHO, if you found similar enjoyment in the comforts and ever have $20 laying around to experiment with on headphones, it's like buying a Zuess filter that plays with the sound a little. Not better and still the same isine just with a different area of seal contact and less "space" super extended trebles. But trust me, you don't lose any details, the emphasis is what changes.