[golfinggino]

anyone who owns either the 10 or 20 also has the ue 11 or 18 pro and can comment on how they compare ?

 

[Cagin]

Made an appointment tomorrow to go audition the iSine 10 and 20 at a local store which got some in stock finally. They also ordered an LCD-i4, which I'm interested the most about.
I'll finally get to hear it and compare to my Zeus R.

Now that's an interesting comparison! Do let us know!

I had forgotten to give my feedback from that session. Tomorrow, I'll be hopefully returning to the shop to go pick up my LCD-i4, and discover a new path in this costly hobby, passion and pursuit.



Neither of the 2 iSine units had the new Groovy ear tips. So I assume these units were from the initial release batch.

The iSine 10 was opened a good 24h before my arrival, and put on burn-in on a nice desktop Woo Audio amp I couldn't recognize. This iSine 10 didn't have the cypher cable. As I don't own an iphone, it's all ok.
The iSine 20 was an unopened unit (no burn in), and that one did indeed have the cypher cable.
The store owner was intent on emphasising the burn-in diffference. I didn't hold it against him, and didn't say anything back about that. For me, the way the brain acclimatises to sounds overtime and how my mood, psychology and health vs allergies & cold swings daily far outweighs any perceivable value of material burn-in.

I had my Sony WM1A walkman and my Empire Ears Zeus R ciems connected through my Norne Therium 8cond 4.4mm TRRRS cable for comparison. I also had brought my iFi micro iDSD Black Label and my Spinfits tips but I didn't get the time to use them during that session.

iSine comfort:

Having been using ciems almost exclusively for two years now, I'm very used to the isolation comfort and instant seal they provide. Just plug em n twist. The shell locks in tight at the cymba meeting the helix spot and at the intertragic notch. Not much risk of them falling out.

So trying out the iSine 10 and 20 was something counter-intuitively new to me, as in, I didn't feel the need to push em in, I didn't try to push the stock ear tips and big bore to try to reach the 2nd bend of the canal. It's a feeling as if they were just hanging outside. It reminded me of when I was wearing clip over the ear earphones when I was a kid. Yet being so light, they didn't fall despite not wearing the over ear hook or the SureFire Earlock. Of course I was just sitting still, looking around the room, I wouldn't dare try to wear them like this while walking about.

There's are 3 things that got me worried though, and I find it important to discuss. All the more when you consider how these aren't cheap earphones in the first place, and in my case as I'm about to spend 2500 euros into the LCD-i4, the idea of them falling to the ground is a terrorising prospect:

1) The soft rubber Surefire Earlock. The way it's designed with the 3/4 circle part that is supposed to lock around the sound bore. It rotates/slides too easily. The whole part isn't as rigid as I'd expect it for functionality.
This was especially unconcerting to me as I'm used to wearing ciems daily. I was just expecting the Earlock's tip to firmly lodge in the cymba against the helix, providing a secure feel. I failed getting it right, it kept rotating or bending.
I'm not sure I need to hope for sweat and skin decay overtime to make it sticky so I won't have to worry them sliding out. Ideally I just want to use say Groovy/Spinfit/Spiral dot tips + SureFire Earlocks for walking.

Disclaimer: I only used the one in the iSine 10 box. The iSine 20 was just opened in front of me and I didn't want to devalue it by playing around with its accessories too.

2) That 3/4 circle design around the sound bore is also used in the over the ear hooks. I'm apprehensive of a downward force pulling like cable getting stuck on something would make those ear hooks slide up coming loose. Wouldn't a full circle provide better strength? It'd would've been still easily attachable by sliding it around from over the sound bore.

3) The 2 pin socket facing down + stock 3.5mm TRS cable.
That flat ribbon like cable had the 2pin connector which in my opinion came out too easily from the iSine 10 or 20's socket. Now thankfully, when I used my own cable, the Eidolic peek TeCu 2pin connector was a robust tight secure fit. I'd be just worried in case of the event where somehow the earlock or hook get dislodged, and the iSine start falling down. Trying to catch them by holding the default cable might be in vain.
Why couldn't they make the socket face up, so we'd wear the cable over the ear. Also helps cut down on cable microphonics this way.

ps: big respect to Keita Suyama-san for his tinkering. I can only dream to have ciem shell moulded to fit the LCD-i4, and that cap mod to turn the iSine into closed planar while keeping the sound sig matching. #cantstopprogress

I didn't get to do any tip rolling, but I was very happy with how light they were. I'm normally using SS sized Spinfits on uiems, yet I was surprised to see that the big looking sound bore of the iSine wasn't giving me any discomfort while using the medium stock tips. I'm curious if the Groovy tips will fit my ears though. I plan to order the new dual flange Spinfits. Hopefully they'll fit the Audezes.

Sound impressions:

Detailing/giving feedback in the same order as I've tried em.

iSine 10 + stock cable 3.5mm TRS + stock medium tips + Sony WM1A direct mode no EQ/DSP

Quite smooth, no harshness, big spherical sound stage
While listening to some Project Az tracks, I noticed cymbal strikes had an extra scintillating aspect.
The sound presentation took me by surprise. I wasn't hearing the sound from my head but from outside of it. A little bit as if I was just listening to music from my pc speakers in the room, not from a source sitting in my ears, or on my ears. When I plugged my Zeus R back, the sound felt so boxed in. Which is crazy because the Zeus R has a wide sound stage in the iem category, and this was further enhanced with the 4.4mm balanced cable I was using them.
So if the 3.5mm stock cable on iSine 10 gave such a big sound stage feel, how would they fare when I plugged them to my Therium 4.4mm cable on the balanced output of the Sony?

iSine 10 + Norn Therium8 4.4mm TRRRS Bal + stock medium tips + Sony WM1A direct mode no EQ/DSP

Well it wasn't pleasant. Sure the separation between instruments improvement and so did the width and depth, but the nice airiness of the 3.5mm iSine 10 turned into a hot fatiguing treble on my 4.4mm balanced silver Therium. I wanted more smoothed out hi-hats, cymbal also on some piano notes. But this was too bright for me. I wanted to try the iSine20 now.

iSine 20 + Norn Therium8 4.4mm Bal + stock medium tips + Sony WM1A direct mode no EQ/DSP
This is it. Like my Zeus R signature, smoother yet with great extension. I got intrigued when I heard newer distinct voice track lines on parts of As Cities Burn tracks or more clear voice separation on Broods' "Medicine".

I've also noticed that I wanted to pump more volume at the iSines. My WM1A on High Gain, 70-100 volume ticks. Balanced to singled ended. These sure like power. No distortion as I kept wanting to increase, but I had to stop, or I know I'd damage my ears and regret it. No hiss at any volume.

Overall I quite liked the sound signature of the iSine 10 and 20. But my preference goes to the iSine20. It's lightly fun/lifted, providing a balanced presentation akin to the Empire Zeus R or a Noble Katana.

When I then wanted to compare the iSine 20 vs the 10 for drum & bass with Koan Sound's Forgotten Myths EP, I noticed something weird.
The 3.5mm TRS stock cable with the iSine 10 gave a very boosted impactful bass. Reminding me of the ASG 2.5 I had tried at the first CanJam London. That one or K10, Andromeda, Oriolus aren't my cup of tea. It's just fatiguing after 2 minutes. The iSine 20 didn't wasn't this punchy, not in 4.4mm Bal, nor in 3.5mm SE. Can't blame burn-in can we ^^?
It's a very hard balance for me to get a pleasurable EDM Drum&Bass listening session with iems. On my Zeus R, I'd want a bit more sub bass lift. Same with the iSine 20. Not sure if tip rolling would help enough. Too much bass boost and it ruins it all and I enjoy the first track and get fatigued by the 2nd one. But I also know it's a type of music I enjoy feeling with my guts. Bass rattling the whole body.

Isolation from outside sounds
No isolation, I could hear my finger flicks over the left and right side clearly.
I could talk clearly with the shop owner.

Leaking music to outside environment
Listening to pop electro, softer music, they didn't leak much when I was holding them at my stretched out arm's range.
Listening to post-hardcore or metal though, I could hear them. Sort of like people listening to ear buds loudly in public transport.

So I hope I'll be able to listen to these in the tram if careful, and in the car too. Also for a walk in the park. I'd be afraid of using them daily in public though. Would the dust and city pollution clog up those open meshes fast? Would some malevolent individuals recognise them by the A logo and try to mug me? That's the advantage of using ciems, no one knows their value here ^^

In conclusion, if the stupid custom taxes weren't this high, I'd have ordered both the iSine 10 and 20 and try them fully for 30 days, in every situation/environment I plan to use this type of open in-ears, to know wisely if making the leap for the LCD-i4 is worth it. The iSine just refuses to be in the iem category. Woe to the other iems that wouldn't allow it. I just can't imagine not wanting to wear them if in a quieter environment. I'm keeping the Empire Zeus ciems for noisy settings, daily commuting. But I plan to use a Audeze planar in-ear for PC gaming and music, at home and for peaceful time at the park or in my suburban neighbourhood walks.
Audeze is branding the iSine like an in-ear headphone (IEH) and I agree. Its sound is too big to be considered an iem.

 

[AlwaysForward]

I had forgotten to give my feedback from that session. Tomorrow, I'll be hopefully returning to the shop to go pick up my LCD-i4, and discover a new path in this costly hobby, passion and pursuit.


It's a very hard balance for me to get a pleasurable EDM Drum&Bass listening session with iems. On my Zeus R, I'd want a bit more sub bass lift. Same with the iSine 20. Not sure if tip rolling would help enough. Too much bass boost and it ruins it all and I enjoy the first track and get fatigued by the 2nd one. But I also know it's a type of music I enjoy feeling with my guts. Bass rattling the whole body.

I gotchu fam. Go straight for the Comply Sport with LARGE size and then put it in the middle of your ear canal. The incredible seal it brings over a large surface area brings out the sub bass in spades while sacrificing zero treble. It's the least fatiguing tip/depth I've found. I'm an EDM lover and am headed for EDC this week but also a classically trained musician and prefer to hear the best natural sound possible instead of having it sound boosted. I'd also recommend trying the Comply Comfort in Large as well.

I've shared these with a few peeps and no one has had any size issues while they thought they had small ears. It think after a day or two, they get really soft and broken in to the point you can forget they're in there. But the tighter seal from the larger tips really does these things a favor for bass. You get that incredibly deep planar thump people rave about. It's impactful. You'll love it.

The comforts are really cool and if I listen to rock or classical, I might swap them out but I find the sports to be very compelling across all genres.

 

[AlwaysForward]

Also, it's absolutely crazy that the iSine 20 is competitive with the Zues if I'm reading that right. I know I'm hearing the best sound I've encountered but seriously, it's just WOW.

 

[youngarthur]

After comparing iSINE10 with 846/W60,over a few weeks, i have sold both, keeping the iSINE. For me, the major differences were with iSINE, I am at the concert, with the others, I am listening to the concert, more separation/depth/width.The strange thing, was getting them to fit, and I have settled on large tips, over ear clips, with the buds resting/sealed on the outside of my ears. Works for me, perhaps not for you. These will not be for everyone I am sure, as these I feel, break with tradition.

 

[Beanlipe]

Would love to see a comparison with HE400S.

I'm about to sell my HE-400S to get the iSine 10 and a Oppo HA-2 but I'm a bit concerned after the DMS3 TV Review saying vocal presence is bad and not intimate.

I love listening to every fine detail the music can offer, not sure if the iSine can deliver that.

 

[Sp12er3]

this huh?
again, one review is just another drop in a lake of impressions, If you can get the iSine in for demo with little risk of losing too much money, that'd be the best way to really sate your curiosity about that question.

 

[youngarthur]

Would love to see a comparison with HE400S.

I'm about to sell my HE-400S to get the iSine 10 and a Oppo HA-2 but I'm a bit concerned after the DMS3 TV Review saying vocal presence is bad and not intimate.

I love listening to every fine detail the music can offer, not sure if the iSine can deliver that.

I personally, did not find anything wrong, or missing vocal presence.

 

[Beanlipe]

this huh?
again, one review is just another drop in a lake of impressions, If you can get the iSine in for demo with little risk of losing too much money, that'd be the best way to really sate your curiosity about that question.

Yeah that would be ideal, unfortunatelly here in Brazil there is virtually zero hifi stores with a wide variety to try/get equipaments like that so I rely on my parents travelling to US to bring me. I can definetelly sell them if I don't like but that will mean I'll end up without a main headphone.

 

[makne]

Would love to see a comparison with HE400S.

I'm about to sell my HE-400S to get the iSine 10 and a Oppo HA-2 but I'm a bit concerned after the DMS3 TV Review saying vocal presence is bad and not intimate.

I love listening to every fine detail the music can offer, not sure if the iSine can deliver that.

All respect to DMS, I really like his reviews, but I think he got something horribly wrong regarding the fit of the iSines. He said that he struggled to get them to fit properly and get a decent seal, I think that's why he didn't like the sound. Because his opinion is almost the straight opposite to most people.
As for your HE-400S, I think the isines would be an improvement (without having heard the HE-400S myself).

 

[Beanlipe]

All respect to DMS, I really like his reviews, but I think he got something horribly wrong regarding the fit of the iSines. He said that he struggled to get them to fit properly and get a decent seal, I think that's why he didn't like the sound. Because his opinion is almost the straight opposite to most people.
As for your HE-400S, I think the isines would be an improvement (without having heard the HE-400S myself).

Exactly what I thought, he even mentioned in one of his previous videos he thought he had a defective unit and that's why the video was delayed but since I can't hear the iSine before buying it every review is important to clarify how they fit to my need.

 

[makne]

I had forgotten to give my feedback from that session. Tomorrow, I'll be hopefully returning to the shop to go pick up my LCD-i4, and discover a new path in this costly hobby, passion and pursuit.



Neither of the 2 iSine units had the new Groovy ear tips. So I assume these units were from the initial release batch.

The iSine 10 was opened a good 24h before my arrival, and put on burn-in on a nice desktop Woo Audio amp I couldn't recognize. This iSine 10 didn't have the cypher cable. As I don't own an iphone, it's all ok.
The iSine 20 was an unopened unit (no burn in), and that one did indeed have the cypher cable.
The store owner was intent on emphasising the burn-in diffference. I didn't hold it against him, and didn't say anything back about that. For me, the way the brain acclimatises to sounds overtime and how my mood, psychology and health vs allergies & cold swings daily far outweighs any perceivable value of material burn-in.

I had my Sony WM1A walkman and my Empire Ears Zeus R ciems connected through my Norne Therium 8cond 4.4mm TRRRS cable for comparison. I also had brought my iFi micro iDSD Black Label and my Spinfits tips but I didn't get the time to use them during that session.

iSine comfort:

Having been using ciems almost exclusively for two years now, I'm very used to the isolation comfort and instant seal they provide. Just plug em n twist. The shell locks in tight at the cymba meeting the helix spot and at the intertragic notch. Not much risk of them falling out.

So trying out the iSine 10 and 20 was something counter-intuitively new to me, as in, I didn't feel the need to push em in, I didn't try to push the stock ear tips and big bore to try to reach the 2nd bend of the canal. It's a feeling as if they were just hanging outside. It reminded me of when I was wearing clip over the ear earphones when I was a kid. Yet being so light, they didn't fall despite not wearing the over ear hook or the SureFire Earlock. Of course I was just sitting still, looking around the room, I wouldn't dare try to wear them like this while walking about.

There's are 3 things that got me worried though, and I find it important to discuss. All the more when you consider how these aren't cheap earphones in the first place, and in my case as I'm about to spend 2500 euros into the LCD-i4, the idea of them falling to the ground is a terrorising prospect:

1) The soft rubber Surefire Earlock. The way it's designed with the 3/4 circle part that is supposed to lock around the sound bore. It rotates/slides too easily. The whole part isn't as rigid as I'd expect it for functionality.
This was especially unconcerting to me as I'm used to wearing ciems daily. I was just expecting the Earlock's tip to firmly lodge in the cymba against the helix, providing a secure feel. I failed getting it right, it kept rotating or bending.
I'm not sure I need to hope for sweat and skin decay overtime to make it sticky so I won't have to worry them sliding out. Ideally I just want to use say Groovy/Spinfit/Spiral dot tips + SureFire Earlocks for walking.

Disclaimer: I only used the one in the iSine 10 box. The iSine 20 was just opened in front of me and I didn't want to devalue it by playing around with its accessories too.

2) That 3/4 circle design around the sound bore is also used in the over the ear hooks. I'm apprehensive of a downward force pulling like cable getting stuck on something would make those ear hooks slide up coming loose. Wouldn't a full circle provide better strength? It'd would've been still easily attachable by sliding it around from over the sound bore.

3) The 2 pin socket facing down + stock 3.5mm TRS cable.
That flat ribbon like cable had the 2pin connector which in my opinion came out too easily from the iSine 10 or 20's socket. Now thankfully, when I used my own cable, the Eidolic peek TeCu 2pin connector was a robust tight secure fit. I'd be just worried in case of the event where somehow the earlock or hook get dislodged, and the iSine start falling down. Trying to catch them by holding the default cable might be in vain.
Why couldn't they make the socket face up, so we'd wear the cable over the ear. Also helps cut down on cable microphonics this way.

ps: big respect to Keita Suyama-san for his tinkering. I can only dream to have ciem shell moulded to fit the LCD-i4, and that cap mod to turn the iSine into closed planar while keeping the sound sig matching. #cantstopprogress

I didn't get to do any tip rolling, but I was very happy with how light they were. I'm normally using SS sized Spinfits on uiems, yet I was surprised to see that the big looking sound bore of the iSine wasn't giving me any discomfort while using the medium stock tips. I'm curious if the Groovy tips will fit my ears though. I plan to order the new dual flange Spinfits. Hopefully they'll fit the Audezes.

Sound impressions:

Detailing/giving feedback in the same order as I've tried em.

iSine 10 + stock cable 3.5mm TRS + stock medium tips + Sony WM1A direct mode no EQ/DSP

Quite smooth, no harshness, big spherical sound stage
While listening to some Project Az tracks, I noticed cymbal strikes had an extra scintillating aspect.
The sound presentation took me by surprise. I wasn't hearing the sound from my head but from outside of it. A little bit as if I was just listening to music from my pc speakers in the room, not from a source sitting in my ears, or on my ears. When I plugged my Zeus R back, the sound felt so boxed in. Which is crazy because the Zeus R has a wide sound stage in the iem category, and this was further enhanced with the 4.4mm balanced cable I was using them.
So if the 3.5mm stock cable on iSine 10 gave such a big sound stage feel, how would they fare when I plugged them to my Therium 4.4mm cable on the balanced output of the Sony?

iSine 10 + Norn Therium8 4.4mm TRRRS Bal + stock medium tips + Sony WM1A direct mode no EQ/DSP

Well it wasn't pleasant. Sure the separation between instruments improvement and so did the width and depth, but the nice airiness of the 3.5mm iSine 10 turned into a hot fatiguing treble on my 4.4mm balanced silver Therium. I wanted more smoothed out hi-hats, cymbal also on some piano notes. But this was too bright for me. I wanted to try the iSine20 now.

iSine 20 + Norn Therium8 4.4mm Bal + stock medium tips + Sony WM1A direct mode no EQ/DSP
This is it. Like my Zeus R signature, smoother yet with great extension. I got intrigued when I heard newer distinct voice track lines on parts of As Cities Burn tracks or more clear voice separation on Broods' "Medicine".

I've also noticed that I wanted to pump more volume at the iSines. My WM1A on High Gain, 70-100 volume ticks. Balanced to singled ended. These sure like power. No distortion as I kept wanting to increase, but I had to stop, or I know I'd damage my ears and regret it. No hiss at any volume.

Overall I quite liked the sound signature of the iSine 10 and 20. But my preference goes to the iSine20. It's lightly fun/lifted, providing a balanced presentation akin to the Empire Zeus R or a Noble Katana.

When I then wanted to compare the iSine 20 vs the 10 for drum & bass with Koan Sound's Forgotten Myths EP, I noticed something weird.
The 3.5mm TRS stock cable with the iSine 10 gave a very boosted impactful bass. Reminding me of the ASG 2.5 I had tried at the first CanJam London. That one or K10, Andromeda, Oriolus aren't my cup of tea. It's just fatiguing after 2 minutes. The iSine 20 didn't wasn't this punchy, not in 4.4mm Bal, nor in 3.5mm SE. Can't blame burn-in can we ^^?
It's a very hard balance for me to get a pleasurable EDM Drum&Bass listening session with iems. On my Zeus R, I'd want a bit more sub bass lift. Same with the iSine 20. Not sure if tip rolling would help enough. Too much bass boost and it ruins it all and I enjoy the first track and get fatigued by the 2nd one. But I also know it's a type of music I enjoy feeling with my guts. Bass rattling the whole body.

Isolation from outside sounds
No isolation, I could hear my finger flicks over the left and right side clearly.
I could talk clearly with the shop owner.

Leaking music to outside environment
Listening to pop electro, softer music, they didn't leak much when I was holding them at my stretched out arm's range.
Listening to post-hardcore or metal though, I could hear them. Sort of like people listening to ear buds loudly in public transport.

So I hope I'll be able to listen to these in the tram if careful, and in the car too. Also for a walk in the park. I'd be afraid of using them daily in public though. Would the dust and city pollution clog up those open meshes fast? Would some malevolent individuals recognise them by the A logo and try to mug me? That's the advantage of using ciems, no one knows their value here ^^

In conclusion, if the stupid custom taxes weren't this high, I'd have ordered both the iSine 10 and 20 and try them fully for 30 days, in every situation/environment I plan to use this type of open in-ears, to know wisely if making the leap for the LCD-i4 is worth it. The iSine just refuses to be in the iem category. Woe to the other iems that wouldn't allow it. I just can't imagine not wanting to wear them if in a quieter environment. I'm keeping the Empire Zeus ciems for noisy settings, daily commuting. But I plan to use a Audeze planar in-ear for PC gaming and music, at home and for peaceful time at the park or in my suburban neighbourhood walks.
Audeze is branding the iSine like an in-ear headphone (IEH) and I agree. Its sound is too big to be considered an iem.

Thanks for posting this, great review!
If you want more subbass, the cipher eq is quite v-shaped and really brings out the bass. Comply tips should also do the trick like AlwaysForward said. If you want to keep the most of the treble, I think the comply Comforts darken the sound less than the sports (Please correct me if I'm wrong AlwaysForward). With the cipher eq, I use large comforts (used size large on the stock tips aswell) but I've cut off 1-2mm of the tips to brighten the sound up. Still a little darker than the stock tips, with slightly fuller, smoother midrange and just insane amounts of subbass.

 

[roxrite]

Hello guys i ordered the isine 20s yesterday and they should arrive in couple of days...

I heard a lot of different things about them.

Some say they have a peak at around 2k and no treble and others say they have great mids and smooth relaxed treble.
I know its hard to compare them to other iems...
Me personally i own headphones like th900 and hd 800...
Those arent really treble shy...
Final audio design fi-ba-ss is my current iem a lot of treble and great midrange...
But i want something smoother so how does the isines compare to full sized cans?
Are they more like an hd 800 with less treble and more bass or more like the lcd2 where the treble for me was lacking a bit...
Btw im planing on using it with the questyle qp1r so no cipher for me at least for now

Thanks a lot to everyone

 

[Softable]

Hello all,

I just received my iSine 20s today, and I am kind of confused. When I got them, before even listening to them changed the tip so I got the best seal I could. I then plugged them into my iPad with the cipher cable and thought "Wow. These sound like my Z1Rs. These are amazing." So I fired up my computer to listen more there with the standard cable and they sounded WAYY different (Using the Fulla 2). They sound more like the SHP9500s without a DAC/AMP of any kind. What the heck? They sound amazing out of my iPad but not out of my Fulla 2? Do they need a better amp? My Chord Mojo should be arriving tomorrow so if it is a source thing than it should be fixed, but man.. The difference is so clear....

 

[Slim1970]

Hello all,

I just received my iSine 20s today, and I am kind of confused. When I got them, before even listening to them changed the tip so I got the best seal I could. I then plugged them into my iPad with the cipher cable and thought "Wow. These sound like my Z1Rs. These are amazing." So I fired up my computer to listen more there with the standard cable and they sounded WAYY different (Using the Fulla 2). They sound more like the SHP9500s without a DAC/AMP of any kind. What the heck? They sound amazing out of my iPad but not out of my Fulla 2? Do they need a better amp? My Chord Mojo should be arriving tomorrow so if it is a source thing than it should be fixed, but man.. The difference is so clear....

Those are my thoughts when using the regular cable. They sound good on the regular cable but no where near as good as they do with the Cipher cable. I have the Chord Mojo and to me the Cipher cable is still the difference maker when you want to achieve the best sound from the iSine 20's