[jSatch]

iPods are the McDonalds of audio.
 
That's not to say the other DAPs are so much, if any better, so this pissing duel is kinda funny.
 
There is a reason that good single ended amps can weigh in as backbreaking monsters that can keep your room warm on those cool nights. But for portable audio, I think great strides have been made since their inception just a few years ago. 
 
Seriously, most of the listening I do with my iPod Touch is pretty casual. Hey, the games on the Touch aren't exactly X-Box quality, but I'm not hookin' up a generator to carry that around either. 
 
Just be sensible, compromises are made for the sake of portability. Enjoy it for what it is, not what it's not.

 

[Mr Joboto]

Quote:

You are indeed 'cool' with your iPod... Because that is what Apple makes, 'cool' devices, known by everyone to be 'The Best' As to whether or not you think it is up to scratch as a 'Audiophile' device, you should do a comparison between it, and a home stereo, see which output sounds more full, less electronic... Or try another portable, a Sony, a Cowon, anything with a decent bass EQ, and notice how it doesn't clip or crackle... and how it can play FLAC, and how easy it is to use true drag and drop, and how cross compatible they are between different OS'
.

By 'cool' I meant 'happy'
 
And I run a DACMagic/Talisman setup into HD650s and MS-Pros, I still enjoy my iPod straight out into ESW9s just as much.

 

[uofmtiger]

 
I'm pretty sure he is being sarcastic.
 
 
 
uofmtiger,
 
I would just like to say that there isn't any conspiracy among audiophiles against Apple because people use them a lot, they're the only DAPs I've tried that sound truly bad. I am a nonconformist but if everyone had an ipod and they sounded good, I would gladly jump on the bandwagon.
 
There is no conspiracy against using ALAC either, FLAC is simply better. http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Lossless_comparison#Apple_Lossless_Audio_Codec_.28ALAC.29
 
Sure SQ is open to interpretaion to an extent but the points I mentioned above seem pretty absolute to me.

How old is that link? Hardware listed for Flac was Karma and Phatbox. I have a Phatbox from several years back (that I no longer use) and it is the main reason I have files in FLAC. I simply transcoded them in batch format to ALAC, so I have two libraries. The Flac files in my system sound the same as Apple lossless.

If you don't like the sound of iPods then you should avoid them. No one speaks for all audiophiles. My comment was tongue in cheek because the question is a bit ridiculous. Should I just make an all inclusive statement that iPods are a "go" for audiophiles... Reason...you can get a digital line out from many of them with wadia or onkyo, which you can't do with some of the other DAPs on the market.

In any case, 70+ percent of this market is iPod, so it should be easy for the OP to find someone that will allow him to try it out to see what he thinks.... What he thinks about what he hears is all that really matters.

 

[moouers]

Quote:

iPods are the McDonalds of audio.
 
That's not to say the other DAPs are so much, if any better, so this pissing duel is kinda funny.
 
There is a reason that good single ended amps can weigh in as backbreaking monsters that can keep your room warm on those cool nights. But for portable audio, I think great strides have been made since their inception just a few years ago. 
 
Seriously, most of the listening I do with my iPod Touch is pretty casual. Hey, the games on the Touch aren't exactly X-Box quality, but I'm not hookin' up a generator to carry that around either. 
 
Just be sensible, compromises are made for the sake of portability. Enjoy it for what it is, not what it's not.

Well said.

 

[lilkoolaidman]

I know what iPod bashing is all about, because I used to do it! I would run around ranting and raving on how iPods are crap, they break down, they're cheap, and Apple = EVIL. However, I was looking into a touch device and almost got an Archos, then I learned how intuitive the touch screen on the iPod was and how it had many features (and portability) over the Archos. After I had my touch for a while, I realized that iPods aren't that bad. I also dropped it several times on hard surfaces and it kept on going. That doesn't imply cheap to me. Basically, I would bash iPods because they were "mainstream" and I wanted to be better than everyone else; an elitist.
 

 
So, for now, I'll walk around with my iPod > LOD > amp combo (which I'm sure most people have only heard the HO) and know happily that I am using something because it works for me, and not because someone told me to buy it or because it's different.

 

[Jupiterknight]

I have entered year 2010. I now own a Touch 3G and also still have a six year old, but very funtional Rio Karma (some other DAP's as well).  Both are great, although almost being a  decade between them.  For my needs and so on, both items are very acceptable as being portable "audiophile" devices. One may sound better or slightly different, but then again the other has a functionality brings it on par.

 

[jSatch]

Quote:

... After I had my touch for a while, I realized that iPods aren't that bad. I also dropped it several times on hard surfaces and it kept on going. That doesn't imply cheap to me. 

Funny, I took mine mountain biking. Have a small external pocket that wraps around the strap of my Camelbak. Took everything out of the Camelbak and threw it in the washing machine. Only problem, forgot about the strap pouch and the iPod Touch.
 
So my Touch went through the entire cycle and my wife said, did you realize you forgot to take your iPod out of the Camelbak? 
 
&^&@$)$@  what a jerk.
 
I blew hot air through it (bottom port, vol, switch and on-off button) from her hairdryer several times for the next few days. Then I tucked it away for 3 weeks. Never turned it on.
 
3 weeks later- it worked!
 
Dropped mine too, and it's still working, and it's very clean.  

 

[RaaaghCats]

 I actually agree with that, I had an iPod touch 3rd gen at one point and thought it sounded great at first - But as time went on the bright neutral sound really started to annoy me, I wouldn't so much say it was metallic but it was edgy and harsh and with modern music which is mastered louder anyway it was really loud because of all the added treble.
 
  The 5g as a trade off is less detailed but sounds much more smooth and warm, I find it means it's much nicer to listen to for long periods, It also had a bit more of a dynamic punch type sound to it including the bass.
 
Quote:

Ipod touches and iPhones are way off the mark. As an older audiophile (50s) I have to say they are among the least pleasant mass marketed audio devices I've owned. Much too far on the bright side of neutral. I think someone called them "metallic" sounding. Well, that's not a typical audiophile term, but I think the sound he means is edgy and harsh, rather than euphonic. I agree. I liked my new iPhone at first, but the brightness of the sound has driven me away from using it as an iPod. I'm planning on getting rid of it. I have warm Sennheiser headphones and use a vintage Total AIrhead (the warmest amp they ever made) and I still can't tame these newer iPod and iPhones. Just way too bright. Apple really degraded the sound in these because they were more interested in putting a boatload of "gizmos" on these devices. The older iPods had much better sound. My 2nd gen players packed a wallop. Powerful and plenty of bass. I might see about fitting a bigger harddrive in one of those, one of these days.Many people think the best sound - among the modern iPods - came to fruition during the "video iPod" line. I can attest to that and recommend you hunt down one of these used if you really care for sound quality, Gen. 5 or 5.5. I recently used my iPhone as a player for three weeks. Then I went back to the same rig with the iPod video as a source. You would not believe how much better the iPod video sounds. If you keep moving forward with the latest ipod on the market, without looking back for comparison, you'd never know the difference. But that's what audiophiles do. We WORK at finding the best sound. I would never give up using an iPod. They are just way too convenient. A great device. But lately sound has suffered seriously in the name of other features. So to answer your question. Yes, iPods are for audiophiles, but the latest ones are not.

 

[ianmedium]

Well, according to a great many comments on this thread that the ipod is basically rubbish at sound reproduction my ears must be truly terrible!
 
As portables go I was never into ipods. I was a die hard Sony man, my first portable was their first walkman tape player (yes indeed I am that old!) then I had the first discman they came out with and then a few more and then onto their minidisc players.
 
When it came to digital I went right for them as well. Then a friend let me listen to their itouch.. I was impressed enough with the sound and ease of use that I went and got one!
 
I now use the latest generation ipod classic and love it, It holds all my music, is easy to use and to me sounds not at all metallic or digital.
 
I had the opportunity last week to listen to a friends home set up, Wilson Sasha speakers and Nagra CD, pre amp and power amp, with cables this set up nears the $100,000 mark. I heard Handels harp concerto and loved it so much I went out and purchased the cd, ripped it lossles to itunes then onto my player.
 
Now I am not going to say it sounded the same as the Wilson set up but I have to tell you it had the detail and it gave me the musical enjoyment that I found I loved with the Home set up. Sure it lacked scale, dynamics and a whole host of other things the sublime Wilson/Nagra set up gave me but here is the important thing. I did not feel I was left wanting when it came to listen to my ipod, IE8's and Nuforce icon mobile set up!
 
My ears and feelings felt like they were experiencing a mini version of that set up and I do not know how much more one should expect from a total outlay (if all purchased retail) of $1000 ( I actually paid $635) for a complete music set up!
 
I am in no hurry to go transfer over three hundred albums to a different DAP in which I have to fiddle with the eq to achive optimum set up unlike the ipod which now my amp is burnt in is on no eq.
 
I feel a lot of people knock the ipod but compare it to eq'd daps, that is not fair. I am of the old school it should sound right with no eq and for the music I listen to my apple does that with aplomb!

 

[lucozade]

Quote:

It's a stupid question and sorry for asking, but from all the pictures I see posted, no one uses an iPod. Is it poor sound quality and lack of Rockbox support for newer models?

I use ipod classic 160gb , i have 4 of them , they sound great  ,do not be fooled by people who do not like apple for what ever reason , there maybe better sounding players out there but the ipod classic is pretty darn good sounding 

 

[lucozade]

Quote:

I know what iPod bashing is all about, because I used to do it! I would run around ranting and raving on how iPods are crap, they break down, they're cheap, and Apple = EVIL. However, I was looking into a touch device and almost got an Archos, then I learned how intuitive the touch screen on the iPod was and how it had many features (and portability) over the Archos. After I had my touch for a while, I realized that iPods aren't that bad. I also dropped it several times on hard surfaces and it kept on going. That doesn't imply cheap to me. Basically, I would bash iPods because they were "mainstream" and I wanted to be better than everyone else; an elitist.
 

 
So, for now, I'll walk around with my iPod > LOD > amp combo (which I'm sure most people have only heard the HO) and know happily that I am using something because it works for me, and not because someone told me to buy it or because it's different.

x2 , and i have dropped my ipods may times on concrete floors with no damage done to the ipods

 

[uofmtiger]

I have a 160gb classic that stays in my car.  It has never had a problem over the years.  With the heat index (outside the car) reaching nearly 120 degrees, I can't imagine how hot it gets in the car.  It also takes temps in the teens or lower.  I only take it out of the car on vacation (to listen to with headphones), so I would say the build quality is decent. 
 
 
I also have an old 20 GB 2nd Gen iPod that still works (although it has to be plugged in because there is not much battery power left).
 

 

[lucozade]

@umfotiger , what is that on top of your ipod in the picture ?

 

[stevenswall]

^Perhaps it is something that improves the SQ?

 

[uofmtiger]

Quote:

^Perhaps it is something that improves the SQ?

 
I had this setup in my sunroom with some less than stellar speakers, so I was not really looking for shakti stones or the like to get better sound. 
 
It is a navipod remote.  The 2nd Gen iPods have firewire instead of USB and this plugs into the firewire port and will let you control the iPod.  It also has a firewire pass through so it can be charged while the remote sensor is plugged in.  I don't really use this setup very often nowadays.  I usually just plug in my iPhone and put on Pandora.