Are (High-end) Custom IEMs Overrated?

[Yuceka]

Maybe you can just change the title of the thread to something like : Why I think the custom iems are overrated and why I think everyone else who disagree with me will be ignored and not taken seriously"? 
 
There was this man who believed that he was dead. He sees a psychiatrist but the psychiatrist fails to convince the man. In the end, in order to shatter his illusion, the psychiatrist takes a needle and pricks that guy's fingertip and says: See you're bleeding! 
 
But the man says: Wow that is amazing, the dead do bleed after all! 
 
To me, music, you're a prime example of this. I've watched people getting angry at you, giving you honest criticism with respect, and giving you informed responses like FullCircle but no matter what, you come out disagreeing and dismissing. 
 
But I would like to thank you for something. Because of your opinions and posts on this thread, I am dead sure that I want customs, you've removed all of my doubts about them. 

 

[ericp10]

Quote:

Maybe you can just change the title of the thread to something like : Why I think the custom iems are overrated and why I think everyone else who disagree with me will be ignored and not taken seriously"? 
 
There was this man who believed that he was dead. He sees a psychiatrist but the psychiatrist fails to convince the man. In the end, in order to shatter his illusion, the psychiatrist takes a needle and pricks that guy's fingertip and says: See you're bleeding! 
 
But the man says: Wow that is amazing, the dead do bleed after all! 
 
To me, music, you're a prime example of this. I've watched people getting angry at you, giving you honest criticism with respect, and giving you informed responses like FullCircle but no matter what, you come out disagreeing and dismissing. 
 
But I would like to thank you for something. Because of your opinions and posts on this thread, I am dead sure that I want customs, you've removed all of my doubts about them. 

X2
 

 

[caracara08]

Quote:

Maybe you can just change the title of the thread to something like : Why I think the custom iems are overrated and why I think everyone else who disagree with me will be ignored and not taken seriously"? 
 
There was this man who believed that he was dead. He sees a psychiatrist but the psychiatrist fails to convince the man. In the end, in order to shatter his illusion, the psychiatrist takes a needle and pricks that guy's fingertip and says: See you're bleeding! 
 
But the man says: Wow that is amazing, the dead do bleed after all! 
 
To me, music, you're a prime example of this. I've watched people getting angry at you, giving you honest criticism with respect, and giving you informed responses like FullCircle but no matter what, you come out disagreeing and dismissing. 
 
But I would like to thank you for something. Because of your opinions and posts on this thread, I am dead sure that I want customs, you've removed all of my doubts about them. 

x3

 

[Kunlun]

Sure are a lot of weird personal attacks on Music_4321 in this thread. Even a mod called him a troll in another thread, which is shameful.
 
 
 
 
N.B. I deeply and truly enjoy my top-tier customs and they are completely worth it to me. However, I think Music has made great points and that the personal attacks are very strange and completely unnecessary. Why is it so threatening to people that the $$$$$ they have spent or plan to spend may not be entirely warranted... oh.
 
 

 

[caracara08]

Quote:

Sure are a lot of weird personal attacks on Music_4321 in this thread. Even a mod called him a troll in another thread, which is shameful.
 
 

ive learned that if other great head-fiers are like that towards a person, its with due cause.  

 

[Kunlun]

Quote:

ive learned that if other great head-fiers are like that towards a person, its with due cause.  

I have to disagree.
 
Btw, I'm totally a great head-fier. You should be influenced by my opinions.
 
Try it.
 
You'll be happier.
 
Live longer.
 
Be more handsome.
 
Kunlun: The Key to Life Itself
 

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

ive learned that if other great head-fiers are like that towards a person, its with due cause.  

What?  

 

 

[Kunlun]

Quote:

What?  

 

Followers of Kunlun who Love Kunlun!
 
Have a good opinion of Anaxilus.
 
I have spoken!
 
 

 

[caracara08]

i took the defense of someone who was getting piled on by mods and other ppl who are respected on here without knowing the background.  turns out they were right.  i dont believe/trust/respect most ppl on here, but there are some.
 
my point is, find out the background before takign a side.  

 

[barleyguy]

Quote:

Does that mean I've failed? I'm sure there are many who come to this thread and, like you, still go ahead and get a set of customs.
 

Whether you've failed depends on what your goal is.  Is your goal to promote honest open discussion about the topic, or is it to convert people?  I think it seems like the latter, but I would hope it would be the former.
 

 

[james444]

Quote:

I have to wonder why average_joe never got a Westone, Ultimate Ears, Unique Melody, or JHA custom - I should imagine a good reviewer would first know the most well known products and then compare those against other lesser known brands. 
 
Originally, his JH16 was going to be a reshell and meant to be done by Kozee Sound Solutions, ie the JH16 was not directly purchased from JHA. Kozee is a 'company' average_joe practically single-handedly brought to peoples' attention. The JH16 reshell actually never materialised and nothing was said about what happened there. Suddenly, he purchases a brand new JH16 and the JH16 reshell becomes a thing of the past - very odd. Kozee, of course, being the 'company' where HF'ers are experiencing QC and, specially, CS issues. Why didn't he try to get the JH16 reshelled by UM who seem to have a decent reputation, specially considering the reshell was for a rather more complex product than, say, a JH5, ES3X, or UE10?
 
He also never got a set of JH13s, the most highly regarded custom on HF (at least for a very long time), and instead he got the Earsonics EM3Pro right at the height of the SM3 hype, the SM3 thread that he, BTW, started - Earsonics being another company that, until then, was virtually unknown, at least on HF. Practically all the customs average_joe owns are from unknown companies, which, I'm sure are very pleased they're being talked about on these forum threads - I find all of this rather peculiar.
 
I know some of the information average_joe provides is useful - some of it really very useful -, but I personally would prefer to get reviews on customs and/or other IEMs from different sources.

 
Sorry to disagree with you, but I have to take up the cudgels here for average joe. In the light of his Custom IEM Resource thread, how could anyone think he's not a good reviewer? Have you seen the first seven posts of this thread? That's by far the most comprehensive writeup on customs ever done. I don't care whether he got a Westone or Ultimate Ears too or not. I know how long it takes me to write a halfway decent review about a single pair of IEMs - and this must have taken him an unimaginable amount of time and effort to put together. I tell you, nobody does something like this for any other reason than enthusiasm and maybe a dose of sheer insanity.
 
That said, ever since Joe's take on the SM3, I've come to the conclusion that the two of us hear things a bit differently, so I tend to take his reviews with a grain of salt. But that doesnt take anything away from my deep respect for his work.

 

[music_4321]

^ You most certainly do not need to apologise for disagreeing with me.
 
I do agree AJ has put tremendous effort in that thread and other lists and tables he's compiled/created. I did praise him once or twice for some other work he did related to different sleeves/tips - quite remarkable, in fact.
 
And I do agree that his reviews do have quite a few things that most definitely deserve praising, and are in part the result of sheer enthusiasm/passion. However, I won't go into further details as to why I personally take his customs reviews with a huge grain of salt as well as some of his 'contributions' on this thread. Like you, his take on the SM3 was different to mine (much more so in my case) - I can certainly live with that. But the patterns I outlined in the post you quoted are something else.
 
As it is it right now, it seems I've opened a can of worms, so I'll just leave it at that, and I do mean it.
 
And, I do appreciate your posting your honest take on my post.

 

[ericp10]

X2 ... I've said this before @ james444 (with a few long-time head-fiers disagreeing, including you, kunlun and the starter of this thread), but I don't care how a member gets an iem for review, as long as he  or she is honest and forthright about how they feel about the product. No one is getting paid to take time out of their busy schedules to let other here know about what an earphone or headphone sounds like. They do it because they have passion for this hobby. Now, I once refused to say if I paid for my 1964-Q (my words were more or less it's not anyone's business), and I was attacked for not waningt to divulge that information (by some of the very people/person kunlun is defending here). Some knew that I took it upon myself to be the guinea pig for the Quad (no one on this forum had heard it at that time although one person did receive his a little bit before I received mine). The point I'm making is what would it benefit a head-fi member to praise an item that totally sucked - whether he paid for it, got a deal or got for free - and lose his credibility on this forum forever? And to discount his or her other countless impressions and reviews of other items before? What happened to following patterns of people's behavior - even if you don't agree with the conclusion?
 
Some of the criticisms of certain people such as average_joe strikes me as "well maybe he got his for free or a deal, but that same company wouldn't give me the item for free or a deal; therefore, that reviewer, company and the product all must be liars and inferior along with putting out false information." I hear some kids on street refer to this sort of behavior as "hating" on someone else.

Except  for the administrators, who selected certain ones out of the group to be head-fi ethics police? I missed that memo. Like james444 eluded to, I don't agree with a lot of average_joe's views on earphones we have heard in common, and definitely not on sound signatures (he and I once bumped heads over him calling the SM3 the king of all universal iems, when I said there is no king), but I never thought in my head that average_joe's overly enthusiastic statements about products he loved came about probably because he got the product for free or at a great discount. I thought he just really liked the product and we disagreed. And when I couldn't stand what average_joe was saying about a product where it seemed like hype, what did I do? I went out and bought the product to hear it for myself (SM3 was great to my ears but still not king - and there is no king although the FX700 was MY favorite universal until recently listening to the EX600 with Zo subwoofer).

Now, this is were I take a bit of an issue with a thread like this one. If you have heard three or more customs (not the universal versions) and reached the conclusion that customs are not better than universals, well I have respect for your opinion somewhat (although I still would want to know for myself).  But some of you who are making that definitive statement haven't heard any customs or maybe just one or two. I don't see how one could make a definitive statement such as that under those circumstances.

I have only heard one custom, the 1964-Q. And I can't say that all customs are better than all universals, and won't say that only having just heard one custom. What I can say, however (and have said), is that of all the universals I HAVE HEARD, not one beats the 1964-Q TO MY EARS.  Of course some will hit the conspiracy theories again and say I'm just overly enthusiastic because I'm a 1964 EARS company plant (trust they find if more amusing than me and wonder why I haven't asked them for anything at this point due to some of the abuse I've taken for loving their product....lol). 
 
So my point is let's just take everybody's opinions with a grain of salt and do our individual homework. I'm really impressed with many of you who have taken the time to do such elaborate reviews - no matter if I agree with you or not. I haven't had the time (and truth be known) nor much of the desire to do those type of reviews (yet) due to some attitudes here, and the demands placed on some here,  who give of their time, energy, thoughts and opinions so freely with not so much as a thank you from the regulars. Even if I do know something more than the next person, I don't believe in ever presenting myself with an elitist attitude. All should feel welcomed and comfortable on this forum. IMHO of course.

 
Quote:

 
Sorry to disagree with you, but I have to take up the cudgels here for average joe. In the light of his Custom IEM Resource thread, how could anyone think he's not a good reviewer? Have you seen the first seven posts of this thread? That's by far the most comprehensive writeup on customs ever done. I don't care whether he got a Westone or Ultimate Ears too or not. I know how long it takes me to write a halfway decent review about a single pair of IEMs - and this must have taken him an unimaginable amount of time and effort to put together. I tell you, nobody does something like this for any other reason than enthusiasm and maybe a dose of sheer insanity.
 
That said, ever since Joe's take on the SM3, I've come to the conclusion that the two of us hear things a bit differently, so I tend to take his reviews with a grain of salt. But that doesnt take anything away from my deep respect for his work.

 

 

[FullCircle]

As I see it, I see a "fraction" brewing here....   a club of some sorts.  I have seen something like this at a meet before.  "Can fans against anything that is mounted in the ear club." The Can fans would walk by the tables displaying IEMs of any sort, customs, non-customs, BAD, dynamics etc....   and they would look at the display booth as if to say "Ah, such childish toys for little boys."
 
 
Realy is see a rift forming and it is seems crazy to me. My sound equipment, in some respects reflects my life,  I live in both worlds, I have both custom and non-custom, I am an American living in China, my wife is from Thailand, I love BMWs and ride a bus to work, I have a doctorate degree in Audiology, but I am more facinated BADs used for music production rather than BADs used for hearing aids.
 
 I am a hodge-podge, and honestly I'm loving every moment of it. For me, I know Customs have limitations just as my BMW M3 had....  so what, I accept them.  I know my non-customs have limitations too...
 
I think George E. Short III, the president and owner of North Creek Music Systems said it best, and I paraphrase "The laws of physics still require a large speaker to produce good base."
 
.... and that to me, is the limitation of non-custom products. In my opionion, there has yet to be a non-custom IEM, that can match the SQ of a CIEM.

 

[FullCircle]

I use both CIEMs and IEMs   and I enjoy them both. If I could have a non-custom that sounded as good as my customs, then I would use it more so, and maybe exclusively....   until then....   I'll remain a "bi-auralist."