[maverickronin]

Quote:

Thanks for the advice. I already have the amp to do either pair of cans justice .... I just hate the thought of spending so much money, IF I would be just as happy with the 880s.

That's certainly a harder question.  If you've got the cash buying both of them from someplace with a good return policy, and trying them out for a while is the only real way to find out.

 

[pataburd]

 
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Last night I a/b-ed the T1 and the K501.  The K501 have the better integrated midrange at this point.  Though the T1's midrange is remarkably clean and ultra-detailed, it is still lean and tipped a bit forward toward the upper midrange.  The T1 give you lots of breathiness, nasality and wet lip-pealing detail, but that part of the voice anchored behind the throat and down into the chest cavity is missing (at least at this point, with hours of break-in still to go).  
 
Interestingly, the T1 can generate "warmth" about vocals, but it's more like a glow, an aura, a patina that remains disjoint from and non-integrated with the upper midrange.  The T1's midrange is ultra-clear and transparent, but lacks flushness and solidity compared to the K501.  Unlike the T1, the K501's midrange is exceptionally well-integrated from top to bottom, with the "warmth" inhering within vocal tracks instead of radiating around them.  
 
For now, I think I'll just leave the T1 jacked into the Denon AVR-1905 receiver, let FM music pulse thought them for the next few days and just forget about them.  The DT880/600 ohm have settled down nicely with extended hours (including a more settled and integrated midrange), so I am counting on the same from the T1--then watch out!
 
The DT880/600 sound very even and smooth now.  Sure, they're not the T1, but they give you more than a modicum of what the T1 can do, and for a heap less dollars.  Switching over from the T1 to the DT880/600, I can immediately reckon with a loss of fine resolution, nuance and detail, but after about five minutes I am very much enjoying the DT880 all over again in their own right.  The bang-for-the-buck aspect of the DT880/600 further enhances my enjoyment of them.  (I'd like to re-cable the DT880/600 with UPOCC copper and then hear how they fare against the T1!) 
 
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[pataburd]

Quote:

Pataburd... How does the T1 midrange compare with that of the K701?
 
Any of that upper midrange peak/discontinuity that makes everything sound distant and smaller than life... and missing some of the vital harmonics that makes music beautiful?
 
Do you need to crank the T1 up loud before the midrange blossoms? Like I have to do with the K701/2... but if the track contains both mids, upper mids and treble, then playing them loud does not solve the problem fully as the lower treble and upper mids run all over the mids.

Trinanjan,
It's been so long since I've had or heard the K701 that it's hard to say, but I will say that the T1 sounds leaner overall in the midrange, sans discontinuity on par with the K701.  
 
The AKG K501 and K701 are essentially midcentric performers, with the K701 providing a heftier bottom and a more airy notion at the top (albeit at the catastrophic loss of midrange integrity) compared with the K501.
 
The Beyer DT880/2003, DT880/250/2005, DT880/600 and T1 rank order from most to least lean in the midrange.  But a lean and lithe midrange has always been the "trademark" Beyerdynamic sound.  The pay-off is a better sense of transparency and oodles more detail compared to the AKGs.
 
To me, the AKGs better all the Beyers (including the T1) in terms of three-dimensionality and well coordinated positioning of instruments/performers, as well.  True, the Beyers can throw a huge, volumetric space, but things within that space are not as well anchored and positionally "nailed down" as they can be with the AKGs.
 
Of course, the T1 I refer to have not fully broken in yet, so these observations may be subject to revision later on.  However, the Beyers will never, IMHO, equal or better the AKGs in terms of what the latter do better; and conversely. 
 
As far as having to turn up the volume to evince their midrange potential, I would say that the T1 do not seem to need that like the K701.  Even at relatively low volume, the T1's midrange remains pretty stable and balanced alongside the upper and lower registers.  I remember having to increase volume with the K701 to get a better sense of their midrange (and bass).  I also remember that you couldn't get too loud with the AKGs, either, for fear of onsetting harshness.  I always attributed that to the "Varimotion" drivers, and the relative degrees of radial stiffness that imposed "thresholds" on the K701's sweet spots for midrange and bass.  The K701 succeeded at moderate listening levels, but sort of "fell apart" at high volumes.    
 
It is now AKG's turn to pick up the gauntlet.  If they could just iron the upper midrange wrinkle out of the K701 (i.e. reproduce the K501's midrange within the existing platform of the K701), add extension and subtract edginess, we'd have a real serious contender on our hands, . . . er, ears.
 
: )

 

[pataburd]

Downsize,
You're in Rochester, I see.  If you would like to audition the T1 on my rig, you're welcome.
 
Bring some of your favorite music and an overnight bag if you feel so inclined.  : )
 
pab

 

[downsize]

Quote:

Downsize,
You're in Rochester, I see.  If you would like to audition the T1 on my rig, you're welcome.
 
Bring some of your favorite music and an overnight bag if you feel so inclined.  : )
 
pab

Wow .... This is almost too good to be true. I would love to take you up on the offer sir. It will be a couple of weeks before I am freed up completely, but I will get in touch with you at that time, and we will see if we can plan something.
Thanks

 

[downsize]

The whole DT880 thing is confusing to me. Would anyone be kind enough to set me straight with a little 880 education ?
 
I see debates about pre 2005, and the newer one's sound.
 
I see where 600 ohm versions sound better than the 250 ohm versions ..... If the amp driving them is capable of driving both equally well, why the difference ?
 
Lastly, what is the difference in the DT880 Pro, and the DT880 Premium ?

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

The whole DT880 thing is confusing to me. Would anyone be kind enough to set me straight with a little 880 education ?
 
I see debates about pre 2005, and the newer one's sound.
 
I see where 600 ohm versions sound better than the 250 ohm versions ..... If the amp driving them is capable of driving both equally well, why the difference ?
 
Lastly, what is the difference in the DT880 Pro, and the DT880 Premium ?

I think Beyer has the most confusing lineup ever.  I've been researching it a lot the last month or so and here's what I've found.
 
Beyer likes to update their models without changing the name, so you need to know the year too, like its a car.  The '05 is the latest revision, and the one they're selling right now.  I don't know if there is a consensus, but I think most people like the '05 better than the '03.  I haven't done much research into that area though, since I didn't want to have to hunt ebay for a used '03 even if I thought I might like it a little better.
 
Now the impedance issue.  The 32, 250, and 600 ohm versions of each model could be considered separate models in their own right.  I should have brought my multimeter to canjam to check, because I don't think there's any other way to tell without opening them up and looking at the drivers.  I listened to many different Beyers on many different systems and some just sounded very different from one another.  More than an amp or DAC could account for, and in the areas that amps or DACs wouldn't usually affect much.  They sounded like completely different headphones, because they are.  The differences between these versions is just something stupid like an impedance adapter hidden inside the plug or something.  The higher impedance versions actually have thinner wires in their voice coils.  If you use the same number of turns worth of thinner wire you will obviously have more impedance than if you used thicker wire, but more importantly it makes the voice coil lighter.  This allows it to accelerate and respond faster, improving the sound.  There are all kinds of other factors that will effect the final sound of a driver, so "higher impedance = better" really only applies to these Beyers, with drivers that are identical except for the wire gauge the voice coils are wound with.  The T1 only uses 600 ohm drivers BTW.
 
Premium vs Pro.  According to Beyers website the only difference (not counting looks) between the premium and pro versions is that the headband on the pros clamps more.  AFAIK the 880 and 990 pros also only come in 250 ohm versions, which you probably don't want.  The 770 pros are a little weird.  They also come in an 80 ohm version.  I think the 770s get less bassy and more neutral as their impedance go up, but don't change much anywhere else, so the impedance issue isn't as clear cut as it is for the 880s and 990s which get less shrill and tighten up all over the spectrum.
 
Confusing enough for you?

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

Page 3 of this thread has started me wondering if I wouldn't be almost as happy with the 880 600ohm, and come out better financially ... The T1s just blew me flat out away, but they were hooked to a HP-4 amplifier, and and Ayer DAC ... I mean a KILLER sounding, and very expensive system !!  I made a huge mistake by not hooking the DT880s to that same system for a comparison.
 
I do remember being very impressed with the DT880 600s , and wonder if I wouldn't be just as satisfied, considering the rather large price difference.

 
Quote:

Thanks for the advice. I already have the amp to do either pair of cans justice .... I just hate the thought of spending so much money, IF I would be just as happy with the 880s.
 

You sure have some nice equipment downsize.  The most noticeable difference between my T-1s and '03 880s (250) is the increased sound stage from relocating the drivers forward and angling them in toward the ears and to a lesser extent the increased detail, that accompanies, and is part of, this sound stage.  The penalty for doing this is a higher clamping force, less bass, a much heavier headphone and no where near the comfort level of the old 880s with the snap on padding.
 
USG

 

[TheWuss]

 
Quote:

Quote:
 I don't think there's any other way to tell without opening them up and looking at the drivers. 

 
well, on the dt880's, the ohms is engraved in one of two places - either on the rubber of the plug, or on the rubber of the strain relief where the cable enters the left cup.
the strain relief engraving is on the inside face, so its a little difficult to spot.
 

 

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

well, on the dt880's, the ohms is engraved in one of two places - either on the rubber of the plug, or on the rubber of the strain relief where the cable enters the left cup.
the strain relief engraving is on the inside face, so its a little difficult to spot.

Thanks. That may prove useful in the future.  Wish I knew it then.

 

[upstateguy]

 
Quote:

Quote:

The '05 is the latest revision, and the one they're selling right now.  I don't know if there is a consensus, but I think most people like the '05 better than the '03.  I haven't done much research into that area though, since I didn't want to have to hunt ebay for a used '03 even if I thought I might like it a little better.

I have to disagree with you.  I had them both and sent the '05s on to a family member in NC because the '03s were much better.  Compared to the '03s, the '05s had a boomy one note bass. (I know that's an exhaggeration but that was my initial impression when I evaluated them)
 
Compared side to side, with both plugged into my GS-1, the '03 were clearly the better headphone regarding mid-range and bass reproduction.  When I spoke to the Beyer tech on the phone, he told me that the drivers were exactly the same and the only things that were changed were the shape of the ear cup and the increased clamping force the '05s had.
 
I also have 701s and don't like them nearly as much as my '03 880s.  I find the 701s sound good with very finely mastered recordings, but are otherwise too unforgiving to use on a regular basis.... as in tinny treble, weird mids and anemic bass.
 
USG
 

 

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

 
I have to disagree with you.  I had them both and sent the '05s on to a family member in NC because the '03s were much better.  Compared to the '03s, the '05s had a boomy one note bass. (I know that's an exhaggeration but that was my initial impression when I evaluated them)

 
I'll take your word for it.  Like I said I didn't do much research into that area.  I just came across a few posts where someone said they liked the '05 over the '03 and not the other way around.  Not enough data points for a solid conclusion.

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

 
I'll take your word for it.  Like I said I didn't do much research into that area.  I just came across a few posts where someone said they liked the '05 over the '03 and not the other way around.  Not enough data points for a solid conclusion.

 
Don't take my word, check it out at a meet for yourself.

  You may not agree with me.

I read some of those posts too but IIRC pataburd and I discussed this a few years ago and came to a similar conclusion.
 
Also, both the 880s I had were 250 ohm versions. 
 
I listened to some recabled 600 ohm versions at a meet but didn't do any meaningful comparisons.
 
USG

 

[pataburd]

Yes.  The DT880/2005 (250 ohm) were a huge disappointment to me compared to the DT880/2003.  To me the 2005 version lost significant extension on either end and sounded small and lackluster.  Beyer elected to improve the middle--which admittedly could have stood some improvement--but gave up the extended and airy treble and the deep, well defined bass.

 

[pataburd]

The T1 are still cooking on the Denon receiver.  Meanwhile, I am enjoying Paul McCartney with the DT880/600.  : )  After about 50 more hours of burn-in with the T1, God willing, I'll report on some more a/b-ing.