An exploration of Chord DAVE, MScaler, Qutest, and Holo May, HQPlayer
Mar 25, 2022 at 4:57 AM Post #1,081 of 1,488
I did try 4fs for my Sonnet and Metrum DACs and with warm setting I do get more tangible weight in bass and strings. Good stuff, subtle but good
And since it is offline so it will force me to own my my music. Will help me to build my local library.
My DAC is Audio GD R2R-11 with Crystek fem-to oscilators, DIY mod. It brings it closer to the DACs in range above $1K. It is NOS type like Sonnet, but a slam is much harder, very natural sound that can be disturbing on a poor recording. Samples I tried were excellent quality, so I don't know whether upsampling would fix this issue. In these conditions I found no benefits of upsampling, except moments of complex orchestral passages.

Other resamplers always had a negative effect of degrading a natural character of sound which is my preference. This one does not, it is a big things. It is worth to try real-time PGGB Foobar plugin.
 
Mar 26, 2022 at 10:28 PM Post #1,082 of 1,488
So recently acquired a used Holo May KTE (1 month old turned on all the time) for demo, pitting it against the usual suspect (the whole Chord Dave / M scaler gang with Wave cable + power supply)

3 days in so far, have put up Chord combo on classifieds, more so because of the cash back temptation then sound quality, but still could go both way, although if someone grab the chord combo that extra cash will go towards more fun both in this hobby and other hobbies.

Always interested from others re this comparison so thought I'll put some notes down on my own.

Couple things re my setup and comparison case:
- Feeding both setup with Antipodes K30 server. Tried PC vs K30 to Holo May and K30 has quieter background and better separation so K30 has to be in the chain to be fair for both setup.
- Antipodes K30 running Roon server but HQP upsampling up to 1.5mhz to Holo May NOS via direct USB, without HQP upsampling no comparison required, 15 mins listening in Chord combo wins. Tried BNC into Holo May vs. USB but still HQP needs to be in for Holo setup for my taste, otherwise presentation is too forward for my liking.
- Antipodes K30 USB to Antipodes S20/S60 (USB / SPDIF reclocker) to BNC input into M scaler, via Squeeze on K30 as player. After much testing, this was before acquiring Holo May, this is the best setup for Chord so kept it this way.
- Both using WA33 standard edition (KR audio 2a3s / Tak rectifier) XLR to Hifiman Susvara

Comparison using a popular track familiar with most. Fleetwood Mac's The Chain off Rumours album (Qobuz 96khz).

- First couple seconds especially (0.16 to 0.20) with guitar strings on left hand side, Holo May presents a more textured grainer presentation vs. Chord a much more smoother presentation. This is the addictive bit with Holo May, where I can hear grain? in sound which my brain equates to Vinyl sound but I've never heard proper Vinyl setup before so don't read too much into it. I am into photography so Holo May = film picture with it's grains etc which creates nostalgia feel. Overall more emotional from the picture but when zoomed in it's a grainy mess. Chord = super high resolution digital picture, ability to zoom in to admire the detail.
- Holo has an expansive soundstage throughout the track, but less quiet background. Expansive soundstage could just be more background noise creating perception of wider soundstage? Chord combo super quiet background, but left / right sound stage perceived to be smaller.
- Separation goes to Chord. Male / Female vocals at the start (0.30-0.35) of the track, Holo May definitely present them closer together and harder to pick out. Might interpret as just one singer if not paying attention. Chord clearly distinguish male / female vocals. Everything is also super separated when tracks start to get busy, but Holo presentation is warm / analog in that sense so rock tracks like this might benefit with a more congealed presentation vs spreading things out.
- Staging still investigating. Holo presentation is more brash (relative to Chord), therefore much easier for my brain to pick out where things are, because it's more obvious i.e. drums moving (2.49 - 2.55), I hear more of the drums + background noise (bloom?) relating to that instrument making the whole presentation of that drum bigger and easier to pin point. Chord more refined drum sound don't bleed / bloom into others (sharper and smaller?).

Relatively new to this hobby, about 1.5 years experience so take the above with bit of salt etc and hopefully the things called out above don't contradict each other. I climbed the chord ladder relatively quick from Qutest to current setup over a few months, so still plenty to learn.

But overall impression (probably much easier to write), is that Holo May has a more analog presentation (detecting grainy texture of instruments / vocals, not sure whether it's part of the track or part of Holo R2R implementation). Busier tracks where there are alot of things going on with Rock albums etc Holo might have an advantage if preferring a more congealed put together presentation. However quieter tracks especially orchestral / opera, where soundstage is less important because only 1 opera singer or 1 string playing, I get much more emotional attachment with the Chord setup, probably because of the sharper presentation with less background noise, so with eyes closed you can see deeper into the music (like digital photography you can zoom in to admire the detail) with my headphone setup. Holo setup when I close my eyes to try to zoom into specific instrument / vocal I get less enjoyment as it's more smeared out. All relative as both setup is top of the line and aiming for different presentation.

Anyway, more fun to be had as I do more comparison with both setup. Have to say learn more about audiophile terms actually having 2 DACs I can compare to, so if nothing else this is making me understand / appreciate more about these terms (staging/ soundstage/ timbre etc).
 

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Mar 27, 2022 at 1:27 AM Post #1,083 of 1,488
So recently acquired a used Holo May KTE (1 month old turned on all the time) for demo, pitting it against the usual suspect (the whole Chord Dave / M scaler gang with Wave cable + power supply)

3 days in so far, have put up Chord combo on classifieds, more so because of the cash back temptation then sound quality, but still could go both way, although if someone grab the chord combo that extra cash will go towards more fun both in this hobby and other hobbies.

Always interested from others re this comparison so thought I'll put some notes down on my own.

Couple things re my setup and comparison case:
- Feeding both setup with Antipodes K30 server. Tried PC vs K30 to Holo May and K30 has quieter background and better separation so K30 has to be in the chain to be fair for both setup.
- Antipodes K30 running Roon server but HQP upsampling up to 1.5mhz to Holo May NOS via direct USB, without HQP upsampling no comparison required, 15 mins listening in Chord combo wins. Tried BNC into Holo May vs. USB but still HQP needs to be in for Holo setup for my taste, otherwise presentation is too forward for my liking.
- Antipodes K30 USB to Antipodes S20/S60 (USB / SPDIF reclocker) to BNC input into M scaler, via Squeeze on K30 as player. After much testing, this was before acquiring Holo May, this is the best setup for Chord so kept it this way.
- Both using WA33 standard edition (KR audio 2a3s / Tak rectifier) XLR to Hifiman Susvara

Comparison using a popular track familiar with most. Fleetwood Mac's The Chain off Rumours album (Qobuz 96khz).

- First couple seconds especially (0.16 to 0.20) with guitar strings on left hand side, Holo May presents a more textured grainer presentation vs. Chord a much more smoother presentation. This is the addictive bit with Holo May, where I can hear grain? in sound which my brain equates to Vinyl sound but I've never heard proper Vinyl setup before so don't read too much into it. I am into photography so Holo May = film picture with it's grains etc which creates nostalgia feel. Overall more emotional from the picture but when zoomed in it's a grainy mess. Chord = super high resolution digital picture, ability to zoom in to admire the detail.
- Holo has an expansive soundstage throughout the track, but less quiet background. Expansive soundstage could just be more background noise creating perception of wider soundstage? Chord combo super quiet background, but left / right sound stage perceived to be smaller.
- Separation goes to Chord. Male / Female vocals at the start (0.30-0.35) of the track, Holo May definitely present them closer together and harder to pick out. Might interpret as just one singer if not paying attention. Chord clearly distinguish male / female vocals. Everything is also super separated when tracks start to get busy, but Holo presentation is warm / analog in that sense so rock tracks like this might benefit with a more congealed presentation vs spreading things out.
- Staging still investigating. Holo presentation is more brash (relative to Chord), therefore much easier for my brain to pick out where things are, because it's more obvious i.e. drums moving (2.49 - 2.55), I hear more of the drums + background noise (bloom?) relating to that instrument making the whole presentation of that drum bigger and easier to pin point. Chord more refined drum sound don't bleed / bloom into others (sharper and smaller?).

Relatively new to this hobby, about 1.5 years experience so take the above with bit of salt etc and hopefully the things called out above don't contradict each other. I climbed the chord ladder relatively quick from Qutest to current setup over a few months, so still plenty to learn.

But overall impression (probably much easier to write), is that Holo May has a more analog presentation (detecting grainy texture of instruments / vocals, not sure whether it's part of the track or part of Holo R2R implementation). Busier tracks where there are alot of things going on with Rock albums etc Holo might have an advantage if preferring a more congealed put together presentation. However quieter tracks especially orchestral / opera, where soundstage is less important because only 1 opera singer or 1 string playing, I get much more emotional attachment with the Chord setup, probably because of the sharper presentation with less background noise, so with eyes closed you can see deeper into the music (like digital photography you can zoom in to admire the detail) with my headphone setup. Holo setup when I close my eyes to try to zoom into specific instrument / vocal I get less enjoyment as it's more smeared out. All relative as both setup is top of the line and aiming for different presentation.

Anyway, more fun to be had as I do more comparison with both setup. Have to say learn more about audiophile terms actually having 2 DACs I can compare to, so if nothing else this is making me understand / appreciate more about these terms (staging/ soundstage/ timbre etc).
Holo wins again :D.
 
Mar 27, 2022 at 2:03 AM Post #1,084 of 1,488
Holo wins again :D.
Although it is interesting again that it was a headphone only (I think) system. In my speaker only system the May came off second best against the DC4Dave/MScaler by a big margin and it was the May that got sold. I think it shows that one has to listen in one’s own system.
 
Mar 27, 2022 at 2:10 AM Post #1,085 of 1,488
Holo wins again :D.
oh come now there is no winner here. Only loser (my bank account).

But I'm not sure how to deal with the background noise of the Holo setup, maybe need more brain burn in to get used to the higher noise floor.
 
Mar 27, 2022 at 2:59 AM Post #1,086 of 1,488
Mar 27, 2022 at 3:18 AM Post #1,087 of 1,488
Although it is interesting again that it was a headphone only (I think) system. In my speaker only system the May came off second best against the DC4Dave/MScaler by a big margin and it was the May that got sold. I think it shows that one has to listen in one’s own system.
Well yes DC4 is a whole other beast so something I don't have easy access to test against.

Re headphone vs. speaker setup, I think this is very valid.

Holo definitely has a more spacious presentation which headphone user craves, as the soundstage is literally just in the headphone. The accuracy of sound staging and separation goes to Chord, which without having much experience with Speakers, would think is one of the key challenge especially with sound projected across the rooms etc.

Don't have the room suitable for speakers, so will settled with headphones for now.
 
Mar 27, 2022 at 7:10 AM Post #1,088 of 1,488
So recently acquired a used Holo May KTE (1 month old turned on all the time) for demo, pitting it against the usual suspect (the whole Chord Dave / M scaler gang with Wave cable + power supply)

3 days in so far, have put up Chord combo on classifieds, more so because of the cash back temptation then sound quality, but still could go both way, although if someone grab the chord combo that extra cash will go towards more fun both in this hobby and other hobbies.

Always interested from others re this comparison so thought I'll put some notes down on my own.

Couple things re my setup and comparison case:
- Feeding both setup with Antipodes K30 server. Tried PC vs K30 to Holo May and K30 has quieter background and better separation so K30 has to be in the chain to be fair for both setup.
- Antipodes K30 running Roon server but HQP upsampling up to 1.5mhz to Holo May NOS via direct USB, without HQP upsampling no comparison required, 15 mins listening in Chord combo wins. Tried BNC into Holo May vs. USB but still HQP needs to be in for Holo setup for my taste, otherwise presentation is too forward for my liking.
- Antipodes K30 USB to Antipodes S20/S60 (USB / SPDIF reclocker) to BNC input into M scaler, via Squeeze on K30 as player. After much testing, this was before acquiring Holo May, this is the best setup for Chord so kept it this way.
- Both using WA33 standard edition (KR audio 2a3s / Tak rectifier) XLR to Hifiman Susvara

Comparison using a popular track familiar with most. Fleetwood Mac's The Chain off Rumours album (Qobuz 96khz).

- First couple seconds especially (0.16 to 0.20) with guitar strings on left hand side, Holo May presents a more textured grainer presentation vs. Chord a much more smoother presentation. This is the addictive bit with Holo May, where I can hear grain? in sound which my brain equates to Vinyl sound but I've never heard proper Vinyl setup before so don't read too much into it. I am into photography so Holo May = film picture with it's grains etc which creates nostalgia feel. Overall more emotional from the picture but when zoomed in it's a grainy mess. Chord = super high resolution digital picture, ability to zoom in to admire the detail.
- Holo has an expansive soundstage throughout the track, but less quiet background. Expansive soundstage could just be more background noise creating perception of wider soundstage? Chord combo super quiet background, but left / right sound stage perceived to be smaller.
- Separation goes to Chord. Male / Female vocals at the start (0.30-0.35) of the track, Holo May definitely present them closer together and harder to pick out. Might interpret as just one singer if not paying attention. Chord clearly distinguish male / female vocals. Everything is also super separated when tracks start to get busy, but Holo presentation is warm / analog in that sense so rock tracks like this might benefit with a more congealed presentation vs spreading things out.
- Staging still investigating. Holo presentation is more brash (relative to Chord), therefore much easier for my brain to pick out where things are, because it's more obvious i.e. drums moving (2.49 - 2.55), I hear more of the drums + background noise (bloom?) relating to that instrument making the whole presentation of that drum bigger and easier to pin point. Chord more refined drum sound don't bleed / bloom into others (sharper and smaller?).

Relatively new to this hobby, about 1.5 years experience so take the above with bit of salt etc and hopefully the things called out above don't contradict each other. I climbed the chord ladder relatively quick from Qutest to current setup over a few months, so still plenty to learn.

But overall impression (probably much easier to write), is that Holo May has a more analog presentation (detecting grainy texture of instruments / vocals, not sure whether it's part of the track or part of Holo R2R implementation). Busier tracks where there are alot of things going on with Rock albums etc Holo might have an advantage if preferring a more congealed put together presentation. However quieter tracks especially orchestral / opera, where soundstage is less important because only 1 opera singer or 1 string playing, I get much more emotional attachment with the Chord setup, probably because of the sharper presentation with less background noise, so with eyes closed you can see deeper into the music (like digital photography you can zoom in to admire the detail) with my headphone setup. Holo setup when I close my eyes to try to zoom into specific instrument / vocal I get less enjoyment as it's more smeared out. All relative as both setup is top of the line and aiming for different presentation.

Anyway, more fun to be had as I do more comparison with both setup. Have to say learn more about audiophile terms actually having 2 DACs I can compare to, so if nothing else this is making me understand / appreciate more about these terms (staging/ soundstage/ timbre etc).
Nice write up!
Out of curiosity what hqp config are you using?
 
Mar 27, 2022 at 8:00 AM Post #1,089 of 1,488
Nice write up!
Out of curiosity what hqp config are you using?
Thanks Goldensound! Absolutely enjoyed your Youtube reviews, always know it's gonna be a good time when you upload.

Using the one you recommended previously Sinc Mx, LNS15, 1.536m limit. :relaxed:

The more testing I've done, the more I seem to be leaning back towards Dave / M Scaler again.

Holo May for good easy listening, Dave / M scaler for analytical no distraction close eye listening is my take from today's listening sessions.
 
Mar 29, 2022 at 3:18 PM Post #1,090 of 1,488
I keep testing HQplayer to see if i can find a combination better than ..solo Dave, let alone the M-scaler. Besides subjective preferences, Sometimes I keep getting noise (from static to pops and clicks) Like on this track for example :


@GoldenOne am I doing something wrong here?
1648581507019.png
 
Mar 29, 2022 at 3:41 PM Post #1,091 of 1,488
I keep testing HQplayer to see if i can find a combination better than ..solo Dave, let alone the M-scaler. Besides subjective preferences, Sometimes I keep getting noise (from static to pops and clicks) Like on this track for example :


@GoldenOne am I doing something wrong here?
1648581507019.png
Static/pops/clicks mean there's an issue with lost packets/frames somewhere.

Try changing the buffer value to 10ms or 200ms and see if either of those works. Or just default. No need to change it unless you're having an issue.

Longer term static is something with the chord driver I think. I get that just using roon sometimes and had it on Dave and qutest so I'm not sure what causes that.
 
Mar 29, 2022 at 4:01 PM Post #1,092 of 1,488
Static/pops/clicks mean there's an issue with lost packets/frames somewhere.

Try changing the buffer value to 10ms or 200ms and see if either of those works. Or just default. No need to change it unless you're having an issue.

Longer term static is something with the chord driver I think. I get that just using roon sometimes and had it on Dave and qutest so I'm not sure what causes that.
No buffer value is having any effect, tried the Asio and the Wassapi drivers with HQplayer, both of them have issues. I'm also using Roon, however going directly to Dave, I'm not having any issues with any of them. There's also some hissing in the background on some tracks with HQplayer (latest version for both it and Roon). Not sure if the SRC-DX would actually have an impact in this case.
Just like every other time i've tested HQplayer (on different pcs ) , there is a clear loss of low level detail, clarity and subtleties with all filters (tried so far), even if the soundstage increase is a nice party trick.
 
Mar 29, 2022 at 4:16 PM Post #1,093 of 1,488
No buffer value is having any effect, tried the Asio and the Wassapi drivers with HQplayer, both of them have issues. I'm also using Roon, however going directly to Dave, I'm not having any issues with any of them. There's also some hissing in the background on some tracks with HQplayer (latest version for both it and Roon). Not sure if the SRC-DX would actually have an impact in this case.
Just like every other time i've tested HQplayer (on different pcs ) , there is a clear loss of low level detail, clarity and subtleties with all filters (tried so far), even if the soundstage increase is a nice party trick.
Chord's USB implementation is crap. That's why you get static.
 
Mar 29, 2022 at 4:18 PM Post #1,094 of 1,488
No buffer value is having any effect, tried the Asio and the Wassapi drivers with HQplayer, both of them have issues. I'm also using Roon, however going directly to Dave, I'm not having any issues with any of them. There's also some hissing in the background on some tracks with HQplayer (latest version for both it and Roon). Not sure if the SRC-DX would actually have an impact in this case.
Just like every other time i've tested HQplayer (on different pcs ) , there is a clear loss of low level detail, clarity and subtleties with all filters (tried so far), even if the soundstage increase is a nice party trick.
Src-dx could definitely help.

I had all sorts of problems with hqplayer + qutest.

I have an src-dx on the way and a Dave/mscaler here currently so will see if it helps things
 
Mar 29, 2022 at 5:49 PM Post #1,095 of 1,488
Chord's USB implementation is crap. That's why you get static.
I know that is the marketing punchline for The src-dx, “the amanero controller is crap”. However everyone seems to love the Singxer su-6, which uses the same one. So I’m not what could be so bad about it. It’s only hqplayer that has issues. And it has so many of them
 

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