[sajunky]

24bit files sound better than 16bit files. So for 24bit Pegasus R2R DAC, we should set 24bit or 20bit inside HQplayer?

I don't remember hqp, but typically bit depth parameter should always be set to 24-bit if pegasus support it (of course it does). It doesn't harm playback of 16-bit files, but in reverse situation it does, so it is wise to keep it always at 24-bit.

 

[clark8888]

I don't remember hqp, but typically bit depth parameter should always be set to 24-bit if pegasus support it (of course it does). It doesn't harm playback of 16-bit files, but in reverse situation it does, so it is wise to keep it always at 24-bit.

Both HQ and PGGB suggest setting 20bit for Holo DAC as 20bit is most linear for R2R, so my concern is 20bit setting has negative effect on 24bit files.

 

[tomita]

Both HQ and PGGB suggest setting 20bit for Holo DAC as 20bit is most linear for R2R, so my concern is 20bit setting has negative effect on 24bit files.

It doesn't. Use a noise shaping setting when selecting dither (like LNS15).

 

[sajunky]

Both HQ and PGGB suggest setting 20bit for Holo DAC as 20bit is most linear for R2R, so my concern is 20bit setting has negative effect on 24bit files.

Well, I do recognize that their recommendation is valid, supported by experience, but disagree for the reasoning. And I don't accept a suggestion in the following post of using noise shaping in a player. In my opinion a DAC should sound the best in bit-perfect mode at a maximum bit-depth of the source file. If it doesn't, there is a serious design issue, something is done to hide defects. I would rather recommend to sell it and chosing a brand without such issue.

It can be data scrambling on low bits responsible for this behaviour, just a one cause. When you send 20-bit file, it sound better as it disables inferior scrambling on these bits, it sound logical. When you add noise shaping, sound is smoothed, simplified, possible less affected by a data scrampling in the DAC.

There are brands that have dithering as an option, it is right, as it gives users a choice. I suggest when you experience a problem on your own, bring this issue to the technical support. This is abnormal, they have to fix it.

 

[clark8888]

It doesn't. Use a noise shaping setting when selecting dither (like LNS15).

Noise shaping can increase bit digit?

 

[tomita]

Noise shaping can increase bit digit?

No, it solves the quantization errors caused by decreasing the bit digit while keeping the same SQ. The same thing happens with DSD (1 bit!).

 

[sajunky]

No, it solves the quantization errors caused by decreasing the bit digit while keeping the same SQ. The same thing happens with DSD (1 bit!).

During upsampling noise shaping (when applied) move quantization noise up in the frequency scale. It make sense for a noise that is created during digital processing like converting from PCM to delta-sigma, as it is hudge. It has very little use with high accuracy processing on PC and a noise shaping cannot be used when frequency remains the same (like in the discussed case of just reducing bit depth). You are unintentionally switching discussion to oversampling.

 

[tomita]

During upsampling noise shaping (when applied) move quantization noise up in the frequency scale. It make sense for a noise that is created during digital processing like converting from PCM to delta-sigma, as it is hudge. It has very little use with high accuracy processing on PC and a noise shaping cannot be used when frequency remains the same (like in the discussed case of just reducing bit depth). You are unintentionally switching discussion to oversampling.

Ok, but dither would still be needed, right?

 

[sajunky]

Ok, but dither would still be needed, right?

Not by user intervention. A small amount of dithering may be added on the final stage of DSP processing without of user knowledge. Even if a math is done with a high precision, rounding errors are cumulative and depends on the algorithm designer makes a choice to add a final touch or not. Remember also that internal math operations are made in a floating point 32-bit or double precision, so conversion to the integer format always take place. When changing format or reducing resolution, adding dithering can take place. It depends on the final bit depth, by example 24-bit output do not require adding dithering at all, for 20-bit is optional, but for 16-bit mandatory, otherwise sound will be harsh.

I made number of tests with oversampling on the PC with my Audio GD R2-R11 upgraded to femto second Crystek oscilators using PGGB offline resampler which is better quality than real-time resampling in the HQP. My DAC is pure NOS, there is no DSP hardware that would alter sound, no way of cheating. I found that in the best case I am unable to recognise a difference, in all other cases sound is slightly losing natural character. With a high quality of PGGB, adding a dither to 24-bit file only deteriorate sound, while noise shaping option removes a large portion of microdetails during fast transients. If your music is computer generated, it may be unnoticed, but on the good recording of acoustic instruments I can't live without these microdetails.

In result, I play in the original file format, I don't need Hqp, foobar 2000 does everything I need in bit-perfect mode.

If upsampling to the maximum frequency helps SQ, it is most probably because the internal DSP with filters, dithering, noise shaping, or ultrasonic data scrambling for hiding ladder linearity errors (all this stuff) is bypassed feeding a ladder with pure data. It also means that a ladder is most likely not operating at the optimal frequency due to the physical transient restrictions. It would be better to have an option to defeat these features at a lower sampling rate too. It means strict requirement for a pure NOS operation.

If I were upgrading my R2R-11 to a balanced version, it would be the an upper Audio GD DAC like R8/R7HE, I am an AGD fan. Also considering Sonnet Morpheus which is offspring of Metrum at the affordable price.

 

[DJJEZ]

The Holo May KTE and Serene KTE join my setup and are going up against the Dave and M-scaler

Will be trying all combinations with the M-Scaler and HQplayer as well as serene's headphone amp.

I'm using both dacs in my 2 channel setup as well.

Will post thoughts after 500 hours+ burn in of both

 

[kumar402]

The Holo May KTE and Serene KTE join my setup and are going up against the Dave and M-scaler

Will be trying all combinations with the M-Scaler and HQplayer as well as serene's headphone amp.

I'm using both dacs in my 2 channel setup as well.

Will post thoughts after the extremely long 500 hours+ burn in of both

Some setup you have. Let us know the winner

 

[Tubewin]

The Holo May KTE and Serene KTE join my setup and are going up against the Dave and M-scaler

Will be trying all combinations with the M-Scaler and HQplayer as well as serene's headphone amp.

I'm using both dacs in my 2 channel setup as well.

Will post thoughts after the extremely long 500 hours+ burn in of both

Really looking forward to your impressions.

 

[gancanjam]

With the Holo May wait / burn in time and HQP setting up challenges, I bought Rockna wavelight to get going . I can still get Holo May though. Studying now with weekly assignments, will write up some impressions when I get a chance. Am more interested in @DJJEZ comparison of Chord and Holo stack meanwhile

 

[alekc]

With the Holo May wait / burn in time and HQP setting up challenges, I bought Rockna wavelight to get going . I can still get Holo May though. Studying now with weekly assignments, will write up some impressions when I get a chance. Am more interested in @DJJEZ comparison of Chord and Holo stack meanwhile

@gancanjam you will be quite happy with Rockna WL as long as you like its sound and loves long listening sessions. IMHO it really shines in speakers setup to really relax and immerse into music. Honestly speaking I love my WL and so far it gets great synergy with everything I've paired it so you are definitively on the safe side mate!

 

[1laraz]

If anyone is interested, on Mac OSX you can use Loopback (by Rouge Amobea) as a virtual audio device, send your audio to Loopback and then use it as an input in HQPlayer. You can route audio from any app (Apple Music etc.) into HQPlayer for upsampling on the fly. Works really well, but you need to make sure you use the correct sampling rate for your source. Most of my stuff is 44.1 PCM so for me it's not an issue, but it could be if your library is all sorts of stuff. I use it in conjunction with Audio Hijack for EQ and other bits.

Nice! Any chance to repeat this trick on Windows?