[wind016]

I just recently tried my Denon d7000s and AKG k701 on a full sized amp and I just KNOW that I have to buy a desktop amp now. What I tried was a Music Hall ph25-2 (Shanling ph3000). The amp just made my music sound just so real. The bass was also fantastic on my Denons.
 
What I have been using is just an Ibasso D10 amp/dac through my computer optical out. I have been looking very hard for headphone amps but it's been really confusing.  People recommend the Heed Canamp but I am worried that that amp will not sound good with my Denons. I am also wondering if Hifiman EF5 amps would be just as good, if not better than the Music Hall/Shanling. Should I save up some money and go for something else that would benefit both headphones? I would prefer to spend around $400 and not much more than $800 if that extra cost is worth it.
 
Btw, I find the bass of my Denon's through the Ibasso to be kind of weak. I like to play it through my Cowon S9 instead of my computer for bass enjoyment. =/ Could anyone please give me some recommendations? It will be much appreciated.

 

[Ypoknons]

There's such a preponderance of amps at that price range, I have the same headache. 

 

[audiofil]

As low budget choice I'd recommend the Matrix M-Stage.
It is a very good match for K701 and neutral enough for Denons or any other headphone.
My experience with it indicates it's a superior amp to my former Heed Canamp (greatly modded).
 
As a high budget choice I recommend a balanced amplifier - Audio-gd ROC or others.
I own the ROC and I'm very pleased with it's performance. K701 in balanced drive are something to marvel at.

 

[wind016]

Thanks ALOT. The Audio gd ROC looks really good. I haven't looked into the Audio gd ROC before but I'm wondering if it will still be worth it if I am not going to balance my headphones.
 
I'm willing to spend more than $300 considering that I want something better than my Ibasso D10.
 
If Audio gd ROC is the best choice, I would just pull the trigger and buy that.

 

[sokolov91]

Audio GD Roc would be a fine choice, but if you are not going to balance the D7000 (reterminate/recable), and do not have a balanced source to accompany it, you are paying for a lot of features you won't use and could find better value elsewhere. 
 
I absolutely adore my Meier Concerto and D7000 combo... truly stunning.  I think you should check it out too. Not to mention as far as single ended performance goes, it bests the Audio GD Phoenix.
 
I think it is safe to say you should probably stick with solid state amping as the impedance of the D7000 is very low (25 ohms) and any resistance in the output of an amp could negatively effect the response curve and sound signature of your D7000. Tube amps from what I gather tend to have higher output impedance, worse technical merits (more distortion, less neutral, higher noise floor) and a better affinity with higher impedance headphones. If you like the sound of a tube amp that is one thing, but a serious solid state amp is what the D7000 craves and deserves. At any rate they eat up current like there is no tomorrow and SS can deliver tons of that. Lastly, the D7000 really shine with super controlled bass... the last thing I think you would want is to make it warmer!
 
For single ended purposes (standard headphone jack) there is not much (or anything that I have seen) that directly competes with the Concerto as far as the technical prowess of the design at its price range. You could look into a 3 board B22 though, but thats big bucks. Sound signature and synergy are different beasts though. Technical specs like the Concerto don't guarantee that you will like it, or that it will be perfect to your ears, but in the end nothing can guarantee this. What it does guarantee though is that your money is well spent on a powerful design and not on a fancy case and hype. 
 
As far as the AKG goes, I have read there is good synergy with tube amps, but people who like the headphone swear by just about any good amp for it.
 
You are spot on in noticing that good amping really makes the D7000 a whole new beast.
 
Best of luck in your quest!

 

[wind016]

Oh WOW... the Meier Corda Concerto looks exactly like what I'm looking for.
 
Is there anything else that's as good for Denon and AKG for the money? If not, I think I will try to get the Concerto.
 
People saying neutrality worries me. I love to feel the bass

 

[Ypoknons]

Definitely keep the output impedance low. The PS Audio GCHA is also a good amp, at that price range these days, though I only heard it briefly.
 
As for the bass, let your headphone handle that. The amplifier is there to provide power so that your headphone's drivers can do their job. No real reason to have the amp impart a lot of coloration on the sound.
 
sokolov, what's so technically proficient the the Concerto's design? It's nice, certainly, but it's a active balanced ground, AD797 design with a digital volume control. Is that really so groundbreaking, especially given the number of discrete circuits and discrete opamp designs at around the same price?

 

[sokolov91]

Nothing groundbreaking really, just offers pretty much everything that should be in a upper mid-fi amp really. 
 
-Discreet, perfectly matched volume
-Has capacitance that people rave about like with the BCA thingee
-Has very good op amps with very high slew rate. Discreet does not mean better.. just different
-Has active balance
-Crazy low noise floor and distortion
-Enough voltage to "fully" drive 600 ohm headphones... and enough current for the low impedance ones
-Crossfeed if you want to count it
 
Every way you slice it, you are paying less than top dollar for ALL of the features that various amp manufacturers throw at you at this price range... all of that without raving on Jans end and a modest chassis. Functionality over all else is really what most peoples wallets want, even if they don't agree.
 
If you saw something like this from another vendor it would not have the same price tag that is for sure...
 
As far as the volume control, I could be wrong, but I am pretty sure it is still analogue in nature even though it is digitally controlled. Hence the discreet resistors and steps. As I understand it is the same thing basically as a stepped attenuator just with more steps. I could be wrong though.
 
GCHA is a very nice amp indeed although I feel at this point the Concerto is more neutral. I will be making a comparison review when I have time. I will almost certainly end up selling one though, only because I need a new source, so if you want a deal on an amp, send me a PM. Most likely going to be the GCHA one that goes as it is a touch more musical than the Concerto and that is not really what I am looking for.
 
Quote:

Definitely keep the output impedance low. The PS Audio GCHA is also a good amp, at that price range these days, though I only heard it briefly.
 
As for the bass, let your headphone handle that. The amplifier is there to provide power so that your headphone's drivers can do their job. No real reason to have the amp impart a lot of coloration on the sound.
 
sokolov, what's so technically proficient the the Concerto's design? It's nice, certainly, but it's a active balanced ground, AD797 design with a digital volume control. Is that really so groundbreaking, especially given the number of discrete circuits and discrete opamp designs at around the same price?

 

[sokolov91]

I think you are mistaking neutral with basslight.
 
The concerto is a HINT basslight in the sense it does't boom in a sloppy way. It punches precisely and is able to hold those low low notes you didn't even know where there. As far as bass performance goes with the D7000, the Concerto is absolutely superb. GCHA is nice too but goes a little less low, and is a little warmer.
 
At the prices they go for used though they are a very good deal.
Quote:

Oh WOW... the Meier Corda Concerto looks exactly like what I'm looking for.
 
Is there anything else that's as good for Denon and AKG for the money? If not, I think I will try to get the Concerto.
 
People saying neutrality worries me. I love to feel the bass

 

[buz]

The M-Stage sounds really nice with my D2000 and unlike many other amps, it has adjustable gain which may be very important when you try to drive both efficient D7000 and what I think are rather hard to drive AKGs....

 

[Frank I]

Quote:

I just recently tried my Denon d7000s and AKG k701 on a full sized amp and I just KNOW that I have to buy a desktop amp now. What I tried was a Music Hall ph25-2 (Shanling ph3000). The amp just made my music sound just so real. The bass was also fantastic on my Denons.
 
What I have been using is just an Ibasso D10 amp/dac through my computer optical out. I have been looking very hard for headphone amps but it's been really confusing.  People recommend the Heed Canamp but I am worried that that amp will not sound good with my Denons. I am also wondering if Hifiman EF5 amps would be just as good, if not better than the Music Hall/Shanling. Should I save up some money and go for something else that would benefit both headphones? I would prefer to spend around $400 and not much more than $800 if that extra cost is worth it.
 
Btw, I find the bass of my Denon's through the Ibasso to be kind of weak. I like to play it through my Cowon S9 instead of my computer for bass enjoyment. =/ Could anyone please give me some recommendations? It will be much appreciated.

I own the 701 and the Matrix brought them to another level. The gain switches allow it to be compatible with any can and this amp is a steal. I know you will not be disappointed with the amp on the 701.
 

 

[wind016]

I went to the audio store today again and brought my Ibasso amp with me to see if my mind was playing tricks on me. After the visit, I felt my mind did, in fact, make me think the amp in the store was better than it actually was. I'll make a brief impression of what I heard and what I thought. Since it was a store, I did not bring much to try out and did not spend too much time. However, I think it might still benefit someone.
 
Equipment I used include the following:
 
 1)Headphones: Grado GS1000i (the store's demo) vs. Denon D7000 vs. AKG K701
 2)Amplifiers: Ibasso D10 vs. Music Hall PH25.2(also known as Shanling PH3000, a hybrid tube amp)
 3)Cowon S9 mp3 player
 
I just want to say first that I have used Grado headphones phones for two years and I have started to not care for them. I find that their highs too peaky. I personally feel like the highs in Grados take a rocket up to the sky so this impression is probably biased. I enjoy the AKG and Denon sound more and find it more natural. But I am still very open minded. I know that headphones with better highs sound differently after you listen to more bassy headphones. Headphones with more high range extension tend to sound more scratchy and painful afterwards. Something with your brain getting used to a particular kind of sound.
 
Also, I have NEVER tried a better amp than either my Ibasso or the Music Hall so I do not know how much better my headphones could sound. I am still experimenting and experiencing.
 
Anyways, the music I listened to are orchestra (Lee Byung Woo), acoustic/pop (Tanya Chua), and some other various rock songs.
 
D10 vs. PH25.2
 
AKG K701
Plugging these headphones into the D10, the sound stage was very wide. All the instruments and voices were very well separated. The bass was there but does not have much impact. Vocals also sounded slightly thin.
 
Into the PH25.2, the AKGs sounded wonderful. The bass came out with slightly more power and impact. The vocals also seemed closer. This amp seems to have better mids than the D10 that made the vocals seem very natural. The presentation of the music is a little different. The sound stage, however, does not seem as wide as when plugged into the D10. This is probably due to the increased response from low and mid notes. The downside tho, is that details that I heard in the D10, were not as apparent in the PH25.2. The instruments were closer and it is more difficult to find minor details. Reverb effects are not as obvious.
 
Denon D7000
These headphones sound great out of my D10. I actually can not find anything quite wrong with this combination but I lack experience to know. If there was something to complain, then it is the lack of bass thump from the D10s that I was able to receive from the PH25.2. The headphones sounded smoother and it was very pleasant to listen to on the PH25.2. However, on some music tracks with a lot of instruments and sounds playing all at once, the headphones start sounding very convoluted. The sounds mix in together and it could actually be kind of messy. The bass could sometimes distort the rest of the sound. So, I still find the D10 to be more detailed and the PH25.2 to be more warm.(though this conclusion is probably obvious)
 
Grado GS1000i
Through the PH25.2, these headphones just does not sound right to me. Listening to Lee Byung Woo's orchestra music was the most memorable moment I had while I was at the store. The orchestra music just did not sound natural at all. The AKGs sounded much more natural but also being more boring. While listening, a picture of an exponential graph was in my head. That is what I thought the highs of the Grados sounded like. The bass was also very impactful, but it made the sound seem even more unnatural. Some headphones sound V-shaped in terms of sound. These sounded more like: ~-----/  Sorry. I hope that's understandable.  The strings in the orchestra simply did not sound like the instruments anymore. The bass also came in weird. It sounded like the bass instruments were very close to my ears but the rest of the orchestral tried to sit much further away.
 
With Tanya Chua, some of her recordings sounded very natural, but I kept having a fear of the highs suddenly becoming painful and unlistenable. With her acoustic songs, this was not a problem. However, with rock songs and other songs that could have very high notes, I do not like the Grado.
 
I know that Grados are supposed to be for quieter listening and I had played the Grados at a good listening level. Maybe this amp was not a good match for the GS1000i but with the AKG, it sounded phenomenal.
I personally have an assumption that Grados are behind in technology but I am ignorant in the engineering of audio, so my assumption is basically meaningless... I'm going to make another meaningless assumption that German and Japanese audio products are just simply more advanced.
 
Anyways, conclusion is that the Ibasso D10 seems like a tremendous deal. The Music Hall was much more musical and enjoyable to listen to. This seemed to be mostly from the Music Hall having a more mid bass thump and smoothed out mids. The Ibasso on the other hand was more detailed and had I been able to use the optical out in it's included DAC in the store, it would have had a more extended low end. The differences between the two amps are the huge differences in power, but sound-wise, the Music Hall just seems to have a little more mid bass.

 

[Pariah1]

I have the Head Direct EF-1 (which I think the EF 5 is an upgraded version of) I use with my 702's and though it sounds nice, but I keep thinking the 702's just need more power. It does sound great with my Grado 225i's.
 
I'm thinking of the Matrix since it's supposed to be good with the 701/02's and wouldn't be much of an investment to try. It could also be gain adjusted to work with my 225i's and other cans I might get down the road if I liked it better than my EF-1.

 

[wind016]

I have decided to get a Woo Audio 6A w/ Sophia Princess.  I love how it looks and hopefully I will love how it sounds =)

 

[kunalraiker]

Quote:

I have decided to get a Woo Audio 6A w/ Sophia Princess.  I love how it looks and hopefully I will love how it sounds =)

nice choice,I was contemplating getting myself one