[james444]

The young audiophile's secret to inner peace.

 

 

[shotgunshane]

I need to hear the HD800 sometime, since several are reporting a similarity with the K3003, which I very much enjoyed.

If anyone thinks the coherency is severely flawed in the K3003, they obviously haven't heard the T-Peos H100 or some other darlings of HF (all BA) universals I have. Compared to those, I'd say it's minimal at worst on the K3003 (not to minimize anyone's review of them).

 

[up late]

Thing is, I'm not disputing what people hear or think when listening or using different iem's, I'm just saying we are all different. I've never looked at a chart in my 10 years of buying and trying different iem's. I just go by what my ear hear and whether or not it suits my musical tastes. Take the Phonak 232, I love this iem, I've yet to hear a sibilant note on them but I know others do but I don't go in that thread and shoot them down for it.
Maybe as I get older I'm finding it harder to tolerate people's attitude towards each other on these boards. I've never been a big poster but until recently have always enjoyed reading people's reviews and opinions on this great hobby.

It's a shame to see threads derailed by not so hidden agendas and pissing contests.

Unfortunately, the thread is still locked, and it must give newcomers an awkward impression, especially in combination with the many posts and reviews that malign the K3003 as seriously flawed. I'm sure it will make at least some newcomers suspicious and so maybe miss out on a really outstanding IEM. In all honesty, and on behalf of those newcomers, that makes me sad.


I haven’t heard the HD 800 or the FitEar TG 334. All I know is that they’re praised as some of the very finest headphones to date, also here on HF. However, judging from what I hear from the K3003, I’m not surprised that you (and others) find the HD 800 and K3003 remarkably similar. That, if anything, ought to be reassuring to any newcomers looking for a high end reference universal IEM such as the K3003.

The thread lock didn't put me off reading it or the k3003.

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

The young audiophile's secret to inner peace.

 

Spoiler: Warning%3A%20Spoiler!

 

 
 
I guess, then, I'm not so young and certainly no "audiophile" (you know very well how I feel about the term) because I no longer own a single Shure product.

Still, me and me K3003s & HD800s are fairly, er, happy.  

 

[Aero Dynamik]

Quote:

 

 
Great post, Aero Dynamik, and nothing you should be afraid of getting banned for.
 
Edit: Well, nothing except for the font choice, that is.

Thank you very much! Very encouraging reading!

I edit my posts in Word to get some help with spelling and grammar since English isn't my native language. As far as the font goes I guess cutting and pasting from Word doesn't work that well... I’ll try to do better!

 

[Aero Dynamik]

Quote:

   
Thanks for the very kind words, Aero Dynamik.

I have to say your post (irrespective of the flattering comments sent my way) is a breath of fresh air, and not exactly, either, because you're enjoying the K3003s so much—which, btw, is great!—but because you address certain issues in a very refreshing manner not often seen round these parts.

You also seem truly passionate about music first and gear afterwards (always a good sign in by book).

And last, but certainly by no means least, it's great that you avoided the use of audio jargon—not that one always should, mind you—but I'm personally often put off by what not so infrequently seems to me an exercise in cut-and-paste with the overuse of such terms, which, unfortunately, often has the desired effect of impressing several/many people, much like good marketing.

Oh...and I agree completely that the K3003 advert is mostly rubbish, but in a way I can understand AKG (or perhaps, more likely, Harman in this case) for marketing it that way — the actual design (and price!) of the K3003 certainly lends itself to such type of marketing (read: an exclusive piece of [audio] jewellery). Mind you, I did like the fact it was the female character who in the end kept the AKGs (thought that was brilliant — perhaps women 'also' appreciate very good sound?). Looking at the K3003s more closely, though, one can see that they're a little more than an expensive pretty piece of (audio) jewellery.

Anyway, great post, and don't let james444 dissuade from using that font again! 

For some reason I don’t think too much of myself, so each time someone gives me some praise for something I did or wrote it makes me rather surprised and quite happy! So, thank you very much!
 
I’m flattered that you notice the way I express myself. When I write or speak I always try to use “my own language” for the simple reason that I don’t think it is possible to really reach other people if they don’t feel you’re doing just that. That is, that you are being yourself and that you are honest The only time I use audio jargon is if I feel that I have really made it my own property, that the words feel like my very own and best expresses what I want to say. If you’re trying to be something you’re not, it will (sooner or later) shine through and I guess you’ve probably developed an “allergy” towards this.
 
You are right; I’m not an audiophile, i.e. a “lover of sound”. If I was I guess I would be indifferent to whether I was listening to “wind in the trees” or music, and I’m not. I suppose a true audiophile gets his or hers real kicks from listening to sinus tones and the likes. Come to think of it; maybe I’m on to something here. Maybe the incoherency of the K3003 is very palpable and real when you quickly switch between a 300 Hz and 3 kHz sinus tone? Anyway, I wouldn’t know because I would never try that. Also, I never try to listen with my eyes by looking at charts, I always use my ears. There is always one extremely vital parameter missing in charts that renders them more or less useless, and that parameter is me.

 

[Aero Dynamik]

Quote:

Quote:

The gripe I have with posts and reviews that categorically describe the K3003 as seriously “flawed” (i.e.: “characterized by a fundamental weakness or imperfection”) is that “flawed” is simply the wrong word choice! If I were to buy a wristwatch that didn’t show the correct time, it would be flawed. If the breaks on a vehicle don’t work it would be flawed. However, if Itzhak Perlman would choose to play a passage of a violin concerto incoherently by using two strings rather than coherently using one string, no one in their right mind would describe his performance or violin as “flawed”. Some may not like it and they are entitled to, but to call it flawed would IMHO be just plain wrong.

 
If Itzhak Perlman's violin is unable to reproduce the tones that it should and Itzhak Perlman wants out of it, Itzhak Perlman's violin is "flawed" (maybe even broken.)
 
Similarly, if the K3003 is unable to reproduce the tones that it should and it's owner wants out of it, it is "flawed" (maybe even broken.)

You are absolutely right! Couldn't agree with you more as long as we can agree on that it is Perlman who dictates what his violin should sound like and that it is the individual owner of the K3003 who dictates what it should sound like. However, in the case of the K3003 it is not the owner/buyer who dictates what it should sound like, it is the engineers at AKG. As long as the K3003 sounds as intended, specified and sold by AKG it is by definition not flawed.

 

[Aero Dynamik]

Quote:

OK, let's get rid of this issue once and for all. EVERY headphone/speaker is flawed. So saying something is flawed is a content-free statement. Fatally flawed would mean it is dead (duh), that essentially no one could enjoy the unit past its "fatal" flaw, clearly not the case with the K3003. So we can get back to the more interesting issue of the K3001's good and bad points, why it may be great for some and others may prefer something else.
 
Kevin

If by that you mean that every headphone has at least some imperfection, you are absolutely right! However, if you mean that every headphone is “characterized by a fundamental weakness or imperfection”, the true meaning of the word "flawed" according to the "Oxford Dictionary of English", I most certainly do not agree and will flay you!

 
BTW, I really enjoyed reading your review of the K3003. Very professional, personal (honest) and entertaining! Thanks!

 

[Aero Dynamik]

Quote:

Quote:

IMO the only "problem" these IEMs have is what I call "hyper realism", that hi end ba based phones can provide. It's not a natural sound, they exaggerate detail while somehow reducing the dynamics.

 
I think we may be on the same wavelength in that regard. 

 
Though I must say, the 3003 have actually very good dynamics at low volume, they're probably my favorite phones for nighttime / in bed listening.

Trying to get to grips with some [size=11pt]audio jargon would you agree that "very good dynamics at low volume" could be written as: "Very good ability to portray various sound pressure levels (high and low) in the music when listening at low volume"? if so, I do agree with you, and if not please elaborate! Thanks![/size]

 

[Aero Dynamik]

Quote:

I bought the K3003 new and sealed from ebay a few days ago for £670, which is £330 less than retail here in the UK.
Now I'm not best qualified to comment about some of the issues/flaws that others claim but I find them to be the dogs bollocks as we say in the UK. By far the best iem I've owned/heard, and that's just listening through through my iPod nano and Blackberry 9900. Will be able to hook them upto my DX100 which should be back from China tomorrow after being repaired.

Congratulations, you are now the owner to one of the world's finest headphones! According to some "sound epicures", the K3003 is in the same league as the celebrated full size headphone Sennheiser HD 800 and the other top of the line reference universal IEM, the FitEar ToGo! 334. Don't worry about issues/flaws. As long as you don't hear any, there aren't any.

 

[music_4321]

Hey, Aero Dynamik, you've been on a roll today, haven't you? (posting quite a bit, that is). 
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aero Dynamik /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
For some reason I don’t think too much of myself, so each time someone gives me some praise for something I did or wrote it makes me rather surprised and quite happy! So, thank you very much!
 
I’m flattered that you notice the way I express myself. When I write or speak I always try to use “my own language” for the simple reason that I don’t think it is possible to really reach other people if they don’t feel you’re doing just that. That is, that you are being yourself and that you are honest The only time I use audio jargon is if I feel that I have really made it my own property, that the words feel like my very own and best expresses what I want to say. If you’re trying to be something you’re not, it will (sooner or later) shine through and I guess you’ve probably developed an “allergy” towards this.

Well, when I come across a post like the one you posted the other day, a post I found true & direct, I often let the poster know about it.
 
Quote:

 
You are right; I’m not an audiophile, i.e. a “lover of sound”. If I was I guess I would be indifferent to whether I was listening to “wind in the trees” or music, and I’m not. I suppose a true audiophile gets his or hers real kicks from listening to sinus tones and the likes. Come to think of it; maybe I’m on to something here. Maybe the incoherency of the K3003 is very palpable and real when you quickly switch between a 300 Hz and 3 kHz sinus tone? Anyway, I wouldn’t know because I would never try that. Also, I never try to listen with my eyes by looking at charts, I always use my ears. There is always one extremely vital parameter missing in charts that renders them more or less useless, and that parameter is me.

As for audiophiles, I guess some might think I am, others that I'm not (a true audiophile). To me the term has become very cliched, and like cliches, words or phrases that may have had a real meaning in the past but become so abused and overused that they practically mean nothing these days.

I'll tell you what, though, I'll take a poor/bootleg recording of what I regard as good / real music on a cheap pair of earbuds any day over some reference / so-called audiophile album played through my K3003s/334s//HD800s. And, by the same token, I'll take a well recorded and/or mastered album (like Steven Wilson's latest one) and be very happy with the 192kbps AAC (or even 128) version of it on the excellent Sony MDR-7550 (now available for 150 euros, btw) over some pretty overrated HiRes/WAV/FLAC files using my HD800 (or my K3003 / 334 with a portable amp & DAC with an expensive aftermarket cable and/or LOD) of plenty of pretty poorly mastered/recorded music found these days.

And FWIW, if you ever consider getting the HD800s but don't want to spend a fortune on them, I'd very seriously and heartily recommend the absolutely fantastic 300-euro HD600 (whose aesthetics I much prefer over the HD800's, btw). I personally find the sonic differences between the 1,200-euro HD800 and HD600 to not be as big as some would have you believe.

 

[Maxvla]

I personally find the sonic differences between the 1,200-euro HD800 and HD600 to not be as big as some would have you believe.

It's only gigantic, nothing big.

 

[purrin]

@aero:
 
Did you ever consider that perhaps something which does not sound flawed to you may sound flawed to someone else? Flawed in this case meaning containing a weakness or fault.

 

[Audiowood]

Peace everyone.
It will be a waste to see it get locked again.
 

 

[lee730]

Quote:

@aero:
 
Did you ever consider that perhaps something which does not sound flawed to you may sound flawed to someone else? Flawed in this case meaning containing a weakness or fault.

It may also take listening to other gear in comparison to highlights those faults or weaknesses.