[mattiastomas]

My dream would be to have a sight that runs a user through a series of questions to find out what kind of listener they are that can somewhat narrow down headphones that suit their tastes, instead of relying on reviewers who try to be "right" about why their tastes are right or wrong. Who knows maybe I will have the time to do it at some point!

That would be amazing! As someone who is newer to the headphone world its definitely hard to make a choice on headphones. And its also hard to test some in person. Being able to figure out what kind of listener and being able to narrow down headphones depending on taste makes it an easier barrier to entry.
Canjam does help with testing but its not always an accurate representation depending on how noisy it is.

 

[haasaaroni]

That would be amazing! As someone who is newer to the headphone world its definitely hard to make a choice on headphones. And its also hard to test some in person. Being able to figure out what kind of listener and being able to narrow down headphones depending on taste makes it an easier barrier to entry.
Canjam does help with testing but its not always an accurate representation depending on how noisy it is.

I second this!! That’s an amazing idea.

 

[AnyDave]

Hey I agree and thankyouthankyou - the Verite was definitely a headphone I tuned more to my own musical sensibilities before I also was affected by the "measurement culture" as much. Not that I didn't measure them, but I think back then I was less prone to reading what reviewers and the like were saying and less worried about it.

I think the reviewer community, just like the headphone manufacturing community and vice versa really pays attention to what each other is saying. On a lot of the live streams done these days they all gather and parrot what each other come up with a lot, instead of reaching out to manufacturers and embracing the differences in audio that make things enjoyable for different people. The pandemic definitely heightened this, as we were all looking at home looking for the best thing without in person abilities as much, so the echo chambers were intensified for all of us. I really am going to make a concerted effort to get to more meets in the next year or two!

My dream would be to have a sight that runs a user through a series of questions to find out what kind of listener they are that can somewhat narrow down headphones that suit their tastes, instead of relying on reviewers who try to be "right" about why their tastes are right or wrong. Who knows maybe I will have the time to do it at some point!

I also want to state clearly this is not about everyone needing to like any particular ZMF. It can also be clearly seen with headphones like the LCD5 and Meze Elite. Two very different headphones both with high merit. It's not about which one is better, but it's about what fits the user better. There's a reason not everyone plays a strat or tele or Les Paul, and that's the beauty of it!

There’s also a reason some of own a Strat, a Tele, AND a Les Paul.

Or, in my case, Strats, Teles and Les Pauls (but that’s a different problem).

 

[Exekuhtor]

Honestly, the Verite Open is such a uniquely tuned headphone, i love it. I had some trouble finding the right ZMF for me until i tried the VO. Laid-back vocals with good extension on both ends and some warmth, on top of that nice dynamics and a big soundstage, put it on an OTL and you get this awesome decay of notes, i would not want to miss it. It plays well with every genre and every volume. I can understand that people want the new things, but the VO is unique and so well tuned. I do recommend it to people nowadays.
Originally i wanted to buy a Hot Cup Summer Burl VO, but i got a very good deal on a fantastic looking African Blackwood with black grills, as an EU guy the import duties are annoying, that's the sad truth.
Some time in the future i will get a limited edition ZMF, maybe a Caldera closed, maybe something else.

 

[bpiotrow13]

It's not about which one is better, but it's about what fits the user better

Could not agree more. I always say audio experience is subjective. The biggest milestone in my audio journey was when i realised what sound i like and that it is not a neutral sound. For sure some reviews i was following caused it to take more time but as a happy owner of VO i can say now VO ticks all the boxes for me with all that recessed upper mids ect. I simply like it

 

[JerseyD]

I still love and use the Verite almost every day as my general go-to ZMF - but there's a couple factors at play here: ...

But hopefully the above helps explain the pricing of the VO, which is part inventory issues, and part that I just really want more people to hear them because I still regard it as one of our very best headphones.

Zach, Thank you for offering such a thoughtful and thorough answer to my question. Your strategy worked on me! I had never heard the VO or AO (but enjoyed my Auteur Classic) and was saving up for an Atrium (or so I thought). Then I read your comments in one thread about the VO being your personal favorite (as well as @Pharmaboy's staunch advocacy of the VO).
Then, you hit us with the VO Select Stock at a discounted price and I couldn't resist.

I'll admit it took me a little while to come around to the Verite's charms (and a different DAC for system synergy) but now I love them. While I'm still planning on an Atrium in November, I doubt that will make me want to sell the Verite. Such a meaty, solid sound!

 

[dleblanc343]

There is no Verite 2 on the way (at least for the next couple years - I had no R/D on the way for that) - I still love and use the Verite almost every day as my general go-to ZMF - but there's a couple factors at play here:

1. It's 5 years old now and demand on Verite is way down, we have inventory that either needs to get sold or will sit around and not be enjoyed.

Whaddup Zach, understandable on not needing to fix what ain't broke - the Verite Open are superb headphones just as much as when they were launched. As with everyting, we all have personal preferences (I prefer it to Atrium until Caldy came along) and VO remains a true ZMF flagship, people seem to forget.

But one thing has piqued my curiosity, have you experimented with ADS with Verite? I wonder if it may have upgrade potential à la Auteur Classic down the line

Of course, don't reveal your secrets but one can wonder

 

[Monsterzero]

But one thing has piqued my curiosity, have you experimented with ADS with Verite? I wonder if it may have upgrade potential à la Auteur Classic down the line

Zach has mentioned a couple of times that there are elements of the ADS in place in the Verites, and last I heard he was happy with where they were within the ZMF family, but I like your train of thought. I asked him the same thing awhile ago.

Since you're a MOT for ATH, do you have a line on an original AD2000 non-X? I sold my pair a few years ago as I sold the amp I used to use to drive it. I'm curious as to how it would sound with the Violectric v550.

 

[goldwerger]

a small community of reviewers

I think the reviewer community, just like the headphone manufacturing community and vice versa really pays attention to what each other is saying.

That is a real problem. Lots of “group think” and, also, feels like sometimes some folks find safety in restating sentiments rather than listening for themselves. Critical listening should be rigorous and honest.

 

[robo24]

I sure hope there's no new Verite Open anytime soon, because of course I'd have to buy it!

I agree with others that it was my favorite even over the Atrium Open until the Caldera was released. There's nothing I'd change about it, and along with the VC is the ZMF which seems closest to the Caldera in extracting detail. After time with the Caldera, being less resolving is noticeable on all my other headphones, but I really have to try to hear it when it comes to the Verites. I feel like any change one might need in them is already possible with different pads and pad materials, amps, tubes, etc. and even EQ for those who EQ.

I also agree it can take some time to really appreciate it. Also agree it's weird how different the reviews are on the Closed vs. Open when they're quite similar overall and on some tracks extremely similar. I use different pads on each somewhat to maximize differences.

Personally I'm so over all the Harman stuff. Averages are that and not something I'm generally interested in especially in a sense as wildly variable as hearing. Just think how much everything changes just by folding your ears forward. I think audiophiles are anything but average consumers when it comes to listening. The average consumer thought Windows 3.1 was just fine back in the day, think their new TV with terrible default settings like the soap opera effect are just fine or don't see much difference between 1080p and good 4k. Based on sales the average consumer seems to prefer headphones from Sony, Beats, Apple. So what. That doesn't make those averages "correct" or what manufacturers should strive for. Your ears and brain tell the true story for you in a way no graph can.

Knowing how sampling and curves work, in reality only a minority are at any exact average. If average height is 5'10" in a country the reality is that a minority percentage are exactly 5'10". Similarly only a minority percentage prefers exactly the Harman curve. That curve would change anyway based on measuring rigs.

I love Zach's work and what I perceive from his comments about Harman, that it has some utility and is a reference that can be referred to, but that there is much more to the headphone experience than some studies which have many limitations as all sampling & statistics do. For example, did those studies include the same distribution of subjects as humans worldwide in terms of age, sex, race/ethnicity, ear shape, hearing loss, etc.? No, of course they didn't and you cannot control for every such variable. And that means the Harman curve is a preferred average for those in a specific sample and not necessarily beyond that. Statistics as a tool has so may limitations which are greatly increased when doing human subjects research, even more so on subjective measures. Spending a couple decades doing human subjects research will make you roll your eyes about pretty much every study discussed in consumer media, even by skilled science reporters. Rant over, lol.

 

[goldwerger]

Harman, that it has some utility and is a reference that can be referred to, but that there is much more to the headphone experience

Even where it helps in some areas, frequency attenuation/elevation is a mere single aspect of what makes headphones sound like they do. Timbre alone is a topic that can’t be singularly measured and results from interplay of harmonic resonances, and which each person hears differently. In the end, it boils down to finding people whose opinion you trust to be independent, and with whom you ideally share your tastes; beyond that, course ideally trying stuff for yourself whenever possible is the only way find what’s good for you..

 

[aloki]

There is no Verite 2 on the way (at least for the next couple years - I had no R/D on the way for that) - I still love and use the Verite almost every day as my general go-to ZMF - but there's a couple factors at play here:

1. It's 5 years old now and demand on Verite is way down, we have inventory that either needs to get sold or will sit around and not be enjoyed.

2. A huge part of the lack of demand started when a couple prominent reviewers who started their ranking systems and working for companies instead of being independent called the tuning of the Verite "wonky" and hid their original independent positive review of the Verite Open and replaced it with more muted covered under the window of the conglomerate. People started parroting this coverage and it made it a harder headphone to blind buy.

The crazy part about tall this to me is that these same reviewers hold the VC in higher regard, even though they are tuned extremely close to each other and the VO having some strengths VS the VC and vice-versa which are subjective in nature

3. The lack of headphone shows during the pandemic have people less chance to hear the VO - which hasn't helped since the VO often gets the "I'm surprised this is my favorite one based on what I've read on the internet about it" statement.

This isn't to say the Verite isn't a slightly quirky headphone, it's not classically tuned like any other headphone on the market and really doesn't follow the Harman curve or anything else that has become popular since it's release in 2018. But it's definitely a casualty of internet reviewer culture and all that stuff. Which please don't take this as me whining about, we/ZMF has certainly benefitted from that in an equal amount. So there's no gripes here! But hopefully the above helps explain the pricing of the VO, which is part inventory issues, and part that I just really want more people to hear them because I still regard it as one of our very best headphones.

For what it’s worth, my Pheasantwood Verite remains my favorite headphone, as much as I also love the VC, Atrium Open, and Caldera Open and other non-ZMF headphones. Thanks to @Monsterzero ’s review when it first came out. I originally was going to go with the Aeolus based on a different reviewer’s opinion. I am glad I trusted @Monsterzero instead.

 

[LXMc]

For what it’s worth, my Pheasantwood Verite remains my favorite headphone, as much as I also love the VC, Atrium Open, and Caldera Open and other non-ZMF headphones. Thanks to @Monsterzero ’s review when it first came out. I originally was going to go with the Aeolus based on a different reviewer’s opinion. I am glad I trusted @Monsterzero instead.

Just curious what aspects of the VO make it your preferred ZMF? I haven't heard it, but I have the VC and I've heard the VO is pretty similar, but a bit leaner in the bass and a bit less intense/in-your-face, more space. As much as I love how the VO look, how it's described compared to the VC make me think I might still prefer the VC and am better served with a second ZMF that's a bit further apart (currently the Classic).

 

[Exekuhtor]

It's more than "a bit". In my opinion the VC and the VO are NOT similiar. The VC puts vocals way more in your face (think of Utopia), the VO has them laid-back. The soundstage difference is big (as it should be considering closed-back vs open-back). I disliked the VC, i love the VO. I also like treble, the VO has more than the VC.

 

[omega1990]

There is no Verite 2 on the way (at least for the next couple years - I had no R/D on the way for that) - I still love and use the Verite almost every day as my general go-to ZMF - but there's a couple factors at play here:

1. It's 5 years old now and demand on Verite is way down, we have inventory that either needs to get sold or will sit around and not be enjoyed.

2. A huge part of the lack of demand started when a couple prominent reviewers who started their ranking systems and working for companies instead of being independent called the tuning of the Verite "wonky" and hid their original independent positive review of the Verite Open and replaced it with more muted covered under the window of the conglomerate. People started parroting this coverage and it made it a harder headphone to blind buy.

The crazy part about tall this to me is that these same reviewers hold the VC in higher regard, even though they are tuned extremely close to each other and the VO having some strengths VS the VC and vice-versa which are subjective in nature

3. The lack of headphone shows during the pandemic have people less chance to hear the VO - which hasn't helped since the VO often gets the "I'm surprised this is my favorite one based on what I've read on the internet about it" statement.

This isn't to say the Verite isn't a slightly quirky headphone, it's not classically tuned like any other headphone on the market and really doesn't follow the Harman curve or anything else that has become popular since it's release in 2018. But it's definitely a casualty of internet reviewer culture and all that stuff. Which please don't take this as me whining about, we/ZMF has certainly benefitted from that in an equal amount. So there's no gripes here! But hopefully the above helps explain the pricing of the VO, which is part inventory issues, and part that I just really want more people to hear them because I still regard it as one of our very best headphones.

Wow, I actually have not noticed, but your right. Some reviewers who did like the verite have removed their videos on YouTube, that's kinda silly.

Personally I view the problem as being in a world of heretics. These heretics in the world of the interent have what's literally called followers and these followers alot of the time take influencers opinions for granted.

While I like to read the reviews and watch videos from these influencers I always take a moment to actually review what I saw or read. That is I take into consideration of what that specific reviewers interests/criteria are that led to their conclusions, and compare them to my own personal interests. On the one hand it's nice to always challenge yourself and listen to someone else's perspective (they are entitled to their own opinions of course), but on the other it seems that some of these reviewers don't exactly like being well "reviewed" themselves. Another thing is that I've noticed manufacturers of headphones move closer to harman and take less risk in personalizing the sound by ear. This homogenizing of the market leads to these influencers wanting to review iems instead because some are calling the headphone market stale or boring (gee, I wonder why lol). As I've tried some iems recently I've noticed that they take way more risk in how they try to stand out and some of these reviewers really love them, and I think to myself why? Since they didn't like similar colorations in headphones, why like those colorations in an iem?

Another thing for me is that at times I felt like some were shoving the measurements down my ear and arguing that harman could not be wrong, only to now support the b&k head rigs which are now resulting in those same reviewers/influencers to now at times literally schitt on the harman curve they swore by for so long. Now it's literally a wild wild west in chasing down who's frequency curve will become the new standard moving forward and right now a lot these reviewers are kinda all over the place which is really confusing to me and others now.

I would recommend to everyone to simply question things and don't take everything for granted. As long as we're trying to help one another, we'll all make it through just fine. Also for reviewers to not write off or disregard people responses who disagree with their reviews as just another narrative and acknowledge it as personal feedback instead.