[Audioraider]

Guys, are we seriously at the point where we need to invest $$$ in a damn cable to improve the performance of a $2500 headphones??

If you think this disease stops with the headphones you haven’t been doing this very long

 

[Audioraider]

LMAO, I would bet my house that you would not be able to differentiate the OFC cable versus a graphene carbon cable in a blind test.

You would lose your house

 

[YtseJamer]

You would lose your house

Hahaha, man you are probably the funniest guy I've seen on head-fi in a long time. Can I know from where you are ordering your Kool-aid?

 

[Galapac]

Getting back on topic...

Has anyone heard of when the next batch of VC stabilized will be put up for sale? I thought it would have been by now and people do have stimulus money out there to spend.

 

[erroneous]

@Audioraider Is there a loaner/trial period for these cables? I want to believe, and I'll spend the money if it's real, but I need to experience it before dropping the cheese.

 

[Audioraider]

Hahaha, man you are probably the funniest guy I've seen on head-fi in a long time. Can I know from where you are ordering your Kool-aid?

Since I’m sure you wouldn’t be espousing such strong opinions of the sound of a product that you have never heard, I am curious as to why you didn’t like it. What type of system did you use to review the cable? Did you spend a fair amount of time using it with the VC? What were your impressions when you directly compared the WyWire and the stock cable?

 

[Audioraider]

@Audioraider Is there a loaner/trial period for these cables? I want to believe, and I'll spend the money if it's real, but I need to experience it before dropping the cheese.

Check their website I think they have a 30 day return window. As much as I’m impressed with this cable I don’t want to lose sight of what is important. A cable is only as good as the system in which it is used. I don’t know what your system consists of but the cable is the last thing that I would suggest spending money on and not until you have really settled on everything else. If the rest of your system is not up to par a cable this transparent may only highlight deficiencies in your system. My suggestion is upgrade in this order:
1. Headphone
2. Amp
3. DAC
4. Source
5. Cables

 

[kumar402]

Just got my VCs in today - I’m hoping burning them in will improve the sound quality. Out of the box using the stock single ended cable, mids/vocals sound *slightly* like I’m hearing them through a wall, like in the next room, very slightly muffled. There is also barely any instrument separation. Not impressive at any price.

They’re replacing my ten year old pair of Beyerdynamic DT880 600ohm. Maybe I’m just used to what everyone describes as a treble emphasis on the Beyers? Maybe I need to switch up the pads to universe or suede?

I will be giving these my best shot - Alex is supposed to ship a Wywires platinum cable tomorrow, and I’ve already bought a Hugo2/2go combo to replace my ifi micro iDSD BL I used with either my phone or CD player (I’ve also just invested in a NUC to run Roon, and have successfully converted my entire CD collection to flac over the last month). If you’re counting score, that’s like $7k+ worth of stuff I’m throwing at this project to get better sound while also getting rid of my CDs.

I’ll update in a few weeks after I burn in all of this stuff for the recommended 200 hours, but I gotta say, listening to the VCs out of the box, I do prefer the cheap but well worn Germans... which is slightly concerning considering the VCs cost more than 10x as much. Can anyone attest to this experience, and that burn in will transform these to a *definitively* better sound than the setup I’m replacing?

It’s really nice to see fellow headfier working on putting together a nice system.
A big thumbs up for Roon with NUC and Headphone.
But I just don’t enjoy VC With Hugo 2 and since Roon is your software so I assume that you plan to use VC at home only so why not get a better desktop DAC and AMP instead of Hugo 2 which for all its pluses is still suited for portable use. Even as a DAC I find Qutest as a step up from Hugo2.

 

[erroneous]

@Audioraider

1. Headphone VC and Aeolus
2. Amp EC Aficionado (feedback mod)
3. DAC Bifrost 2
4. Source pi2AES
5. Cables some old bull. Mainly stock ZMF and Hart Audio.

 

[YtseJamer]

Since I’m sure you wouldn’t be espousing such strong opinions of the sound of a product that you have never heard, I am curious as to why you didn’t like it. What type of system did you use to review the cable? Did you spend a fair amount of time using it with the VC? What were your impressions when you directly compared the WyWire and the stock cable?

Hey, I never tried the WyWire cable and I have no intension to waste my money with anything fancier than the OFC cable.

 

[breckstar]

Getting back on topic...

Has anyone heard of when the next batch of VC stabilized will be put up for sale? I thought it would have been by now and people do have stimulus money out there to spend.

Wouldn't hurt to send an email to ZMF to find out. I'm sure there will be an email and postings here about when they will go live.

Got my VC's in. Been listening to them with auteur pads and loving the sound.

 

[econ83]

Original Post:

Just got my VCs in today - I’m hoping burning them in will improve the sound quality. Out of the box using the stock single ended cable, mids/vocals sound *slightly* like I’m hearing them through a wall, like in the next room, very slightly muffled. There is also barely any instrument separation. Not impressive at any price.

They’re replacing my ten year old pair of Beyerdynamic DT880 600ohm. Maybe I’m just used to what everyone describes as a treble emphasis on the Beyers? Maybe I need to switch up the pads to universe or suede?

I will be giving these my best shot - Alex is supposed to ship a Wywires platinum cable tomorrow, and I’ve already bought a Hugo2/2go combo to replace my ifi micro iDSD BL I used with either my phone or CD player (I’ve also just invested in a NUC to run Roon, and have successfully converted my entire CD collection to flac over the last month). If you’re counting score, that’s like $7k+ worth of stuff I’m throwing at this project to get better sound while also getting rid of my CDs.

I’ll update in a few weeks after I burn in all of this stuff for the recommended 200 hours, but I gotta say, listening to the VCs out of the box, I do prefer the cheap but well worn Germans... which is slightly concerning considering the VCs cost more than 10x as much. Can anyone attest to this experience, and that burn in will transform these to a *definitively* better sound than the setup I’m replacing?

Answering replies (out of order, sorry):

It’s really nice to see fellow headfier working on putting together a nice system.
A big thumbs up for Roon with NUC and Headphone.
But I just don’t enjoy VC With Hugo 2 and since Roon is your software so I assume that you plan to use VC at home only so why not get a better desktop DAC and AMP instead of Hugo 2 which for all its pluses is still suited for portable use. Even as a DAC I find Qutest as a step up from Hugo2.

Thanks, and Good question - and I've wrestled with it. Couple of reasons:
1) Space - We live in a one bedroom 750sf apartment in NYC.
2) The hugo2/2go solution meant not having to worry about cables, power supplies, multiple boxes, etc.
3) the hugo 2 was recommended by Zach

I was going to get a tt2, but after trying to find/research a good solution for streaming, I had became physically ill at the thought of all those components, powering it all, and cabling it all together.... and the thought of trying to convince my wife to have it all out on full display in the living room.

But yeah, the NUC/Roon/2go combination is essentially invisible and works brilliantly. I really started this whole journey to get rid of my CDs (again, space), and then it kind of snowballed to upgrading my headfi stuff instead of my stereo equipment, which I'd also like to get rid of (maybe replace it all with a pair of actives).

Anyway, with the VCs, I just wanted to get the very best closed back available, because the noise floor in my apartment is horrible (Although, I recently discovered that I can put a chair in my closet, and for sound isolation, its ! ) . I chose the VCs over the Stellias because:
1) reviewers seem to prefer the VCs
2) VCs are supposed to have to better sound isolation
3) all of the VC parts are replaceable (tunable pads, headband, etc)
4) the Stellias look a bit garish.

Then, realizing that my phone to the ifi is always super awkward, I started to look for options. The Hugo2/2go was like a perfect silver bullet... and it is. It's brilliant. Clearly better sound than the ifi (improved dynamics, and everything else is at least as good as the ifi, but I haven't done a ton of AB testing because why would I do that), but right now, I still prefer the Beyers plugged into the ifi micro BL over the VCs plugged into the Chord, and it's not even close. The VCs are a mess right now. I was doing some more listening last night, and I couldn't find a single thing about the VCs that I prefer over the DT880s, besides the sound isolation. I'm hoping this becomes a story about the miracles of burn in. If not, I'm surely going to return them if I can, or sell them if I must. I'll take 10% hit for the trial.

Welcome to the club

First, despite what you can read on this thread, changing the cable will not help. Are you using them with them with the Auteur Leather pads by any chance? I highly recommend you to try the Universe Hybrid pads.

Along with the Auteur solids that came on the VCS, I also got the Universe solid, and Auteur suede pads, so I'll try those after the burn in process. I purchased the cable a week or two ago and is supposed to ship today, so I'm just going to wait until that arrives to start the 200 hour clock playing pink noise (I actually bought a pink noise CD because I'm antiquated af). Anyway, my attitude is that the cable isn't likely to be worse than the stock cable, so there's only upside returns. It is what it is.

I'd let your ears adjust and your perception might change. Transducers do often benefit from some use but I think your brain needs to 'burn in' as well.

Nah. I listened again last night for much longer on additional variety of tracks. It's definitely not as good. Wife confirmed, and she's only used to airpods. Plus I have several entry level IEMs that I prefer as well.

My first week with the VC’s were interesting, they do take 100 hours or more to burn in. Now I like them more then my Stellia’s and go back and forth between my LCD 4’s and VC for which I like better. The VC’s definitely sound better through a tube amp, then again so do the LCD 4’s. The Stellia’s like the amp right in my Dave dac. I think the Hugo 2 has a little more powerful amp then my Dave. I wouldn’t even bother with pad rolling until they have some hours on them, but standard Autuer pad seems to be most liked, I also like the Universe hybrid, the BE2 full leather gives a very in your face sound, great for acoustic music, makes it even more like your sitting right across from the artist.

This is my plan! I've never heard a tube amp before, so I wanted to listen to one before commiting... and also, I have a space problem. Q: Isn't the LCD 4 too sensitive for a tube amp?

I'm a big Beyer fan myself (especially the DT770/DT880/DT990), and somewhat understand where you're coming from. If you've been on the DT880 for ten years, it's going to take a while to adjust to ZMF. Beyers of that generation are sparkly with a sort of in-your-face level of detail retrieval and separation (which I love).

The VC are more subtle and require a fair amount of adjustment before they hit their stride. They won't necessarily have the instant "wow" factor of some headphones, but I find over time they offer a more satisfying natural timbre and level of technical performance. I'd also say, in my experience, the VC sound much better at higher volume. At low volumes, they lack some dynamism.

Their performance is very much dependent on your set-up and on your pads. Personally, I recommend the BE2 but you'll definitely need to try out a couple of sets before you find which suit you.

I guess i just don't understand where the extra $2000+ of value is coming from then (at the moment, before burn in). I also have some IEMs and they're all "better" than the VCs (nothing crazy, ER4xr which are excellent, westone 3 which I complained about 12 years ago on this forum that you can still see if you click my profile, and a KZ6 from alibaba I paid like $35 for, which have a weird sound signature, but overall very good, like depressingly good).

You need to give it some time, with your past headphones you’re used to hearing a completely unnatural high frequency response. Now that you’re a member of the Chord club I would also suggest reading this post from the genius Rob Watts. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/watts-up.800264/#post-12457933 I thought I knew everything about how to listen for sound but once I put my “Audio ego“ aside and read this post with an open mind it changed everything for me and lead to a system that is nothing short of pure magic. Give some time for your brain to adjust and reconsider how you’re listening from Robs suggestions and I think you’ll find the VC provides a level of listening pleasure you never thought possible.

Thanks for this link. Regardless of whether or not anyone owns a chord, I think this is very good reading. I 1000% subscribe to Rob Watts' philosophy. It annoys me seeing people bash subjectivists and then start referencing Archimigo and Amir because they're implicitly assuming that all qualities of sound replication are perfectly testable, and they're just not - that part of Rob's post was so satisfying to read. The result of so many objectivists is that companies like topping make DACs specifically designed to ace the *known* tests, and go no further. Would anyone listen to a Quetest against a D90 and choose the D90 if price weren't considered? According to Amir and his followers, anyone who doesn't is a fool, and that's just stupid. Tests can be used to disqualify, but shouldn't be the last step of evaluating performance because known tests only go so far - there are no known tests for sound stage, instrument separation, timbre, etc - so you have to listen. Anyway, that's why I'm not too fussed about spending an extra $360 for a wywires platinum cable (on your recommendation no less) when some of the selling points aren't based on any real empirically proven results - as long as it has copper and adequate shielding (because we have high impedance loads, not speakers), and enough people can hear a difference, it's worth a shot. The whole idea of bun in is also scientifically tenuous, but here we are.

ANYWAY, his descriptor definitions are also very useful, also regardless of how someone approaches audiophilia. And still, the DT880 outperforms the VCs before burn in basically all dimensions. It might be that noise floor modulation bit, I don't know. I don't think it is. We'll see.

Yes, I can attest to that- they will drastically change for the better. Personally speaking, it was painful to go through, but give it 200 hours, really do. To clarify, the lower frequencies initially bled into the mids, and the mids were recessed, which made my pair sound veiled, "dark." After my pair come into its own, there was no contest.

thank god.

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

It’s really nice to see fellow headfier working on putting together a nice system.
A big thumbs up for Roon with NUC and Headphone.
But I just don’t enjoy VC With Hugo 2 and since Roon is your software so I assume that you plan to use VC at home only so why not get a better desktop DAC and AMP instead of Hugo 2 which for all its pluses is still suited for portable use. Even as a DAC I find Qutest as a step up from Hugo2.

My primary system for listening to my VC is my Bottlehead crack tube amp and Bifrost 2 DAC, but my secondary system is Hugo 2 with EQ. It's more of a reference sound with nice body and richness in the bass and midrange rather than the standard ZMF house sound.

Isn't Qutest just the same DAC as in the Hugo 2, so when running Hugo 2 in DAC only mode, it's the same?

 

[bluestorm1992]

Original Post:


Answering replies (out of order, sorry):



Thanks, and Good question - and I've wrestled with it. Couple of reasons:
1) Space - We live in a one bedroom 750sf apartment in NYC.
2) The hugo2/2go solution meant not having to worry about cables, power supplies, multiple boxes, etc.
3) the hugo 2 was recommended by Zach

I was going to get a tt2, but after trying to find/research a good solution for streaming, I had became physically ill at the thought of all those components, powering it all, and cabling it all together.... and the thought of trying to convince my wife to have it all out on full display in the living room.

But yeah, the NUC/Roon/2go combination is essentially invisible and works brilliantly. I really started this whole journey to get rid of my CDs (again, space), and then it kind of snowballed to upgrading my headfi stuff instead of my stereo equipment, which I'd also like to get rid of (maybe replace it all with a pair of actives).

Anyway, with the VCs, I just wanted to get the very best closed back available, because the noise floor in my apartment is horrible (Although, I recently discovered that I can put a chair in my closet, and for sound isolation, its ! ) . I chose the VCs over the Stellias because:
1) reviewers seem to prefer the VCs
2) VCs are supposed to have to better sound isolation
3) all of the VC parts are replaceable (tunable pads, headband, etc)
4) the Stellias look a bit garish.

Then, realizing that my phone to the ifi is always super awkward, I started to look for options. The Hugo2/2go was like a perfect silver bullet... and it is. It's brilliant. Clearly better sound than the ifi (improved dynamics, and everything else is at least as good as the ifi, but I haven't done a ton of AB testing because why would I do that), but right now, I still prefer the Beyers plugged into the ifi micro BL over the VCs plugged into the Chord, and it's not even close. The VCs are a mess right now. I was doing some more listening last night, and I couldn't find a single thing about the VCs that I prefer over the DT880s, besides the sound isolation. I'm hoping this becomes a story about the miracles of burn in. If not, I'm surely going to return them if I can, or sell them if I must. I'll take 10% hit for the trial.


Along with the Auteur solids that came on the VCS, I also got the Universe solid, and Auteur suede pads, so I'll try those after the burn in process. I purchased the cable a week or two ago and is supposed to ship today, so I'm just going to wait until that arrives to start the 200 hour clock playing pink noise (I actually bought a pink noise CD because I'm antiquated af). Anyway, my attitude is that the cable isn't likely to be worse than the stock cable, so there's only upside returns. It is what it is.


Nah. I listened again last night for much longer on additional variety of tracks. It's definitely not as good. Wife confirmed, and she's only used to airpods. Plus I have several entry level IEMs that I prefer as well.


This is my plan! I've never heard a tube amp before, so I wanted to listen to one before commiting... and also, I have a space problem. Q: Isn't the LCD 4 too sensitive for a tube amp?


I guess i just don't understand where the extra $2000+ of value is coming from then (at the moment, before burn in). I also have some IEMs and they're all "better" than the VCs (nothing crazy, ER4xr which are excellent, westone 3 which I complained about 12 years ago on this forum that you can still see if you click my profile, and a KZ6 from alibaba I paid like $35 for, which have a weird sound signature, but overall very good, like depressingly good).


Thanks for this link. Regardless of whether or not anyone owns a chord, I think this is very good reading. I 1000% subscribe to Rob Watts' philosophy. It annoys me seeing people bash subjectivists and then start referencing Archimigo and Amir because they're implicitly assuming that all qualities of sound replication are perfectly testable, and they're just not - that part of Rob's post was so satisfying to read. The result of so many objectivists is that companies like topping make DACs specifically designed to ace the *known* tests, and go no further. Would anyone listen to a Quetest against a D90 and choose the D90 if price weren't considered? According to Amir and his followers, anyone who doesn't is a fool, and that's just stupid. Tests can be used to disqualify, but shouldn't be the last step of evaluating performance because known tests only go so far - there are no known tests for sound stage, instrument separation, timbre, etc - so you have to listen. Anyway, that's why I'm not too fussed about spending an extra $360 for a wywires platinum cable (on your recommendation no less) when some of the selling points aren't based on any real empirically proven results - as long as it has copper and adequate shielding (because we have high impedance loads, not speakers), and enough people can hear a difference, it's worth a shot. The whole idea of bun in is also scientifically tenuous, but here we are.

ANYWAY, his descriptor definitions are also very useful, also regardless of how someone approaches audiophilia. And still, the DT880 outperforms the VCs before burn in basically all dimensions. It might be that noise floor modulation bit, I don't know. I don't think it is. We'll see.


thank god.

I can confirm that my experience with VC also changes quite drastically with time. My OOTB experience is mostly like yours. The vocals appear to be thick and muddled. I switched to the alternative pad that comes in the box and it improves the clarity. I then continue using it for a week or two. One day, after I picked it up, BOOM, the vocals emerge as clear and smooth with a good 3D soundstage.

 

[Audioraider]

@Audioraider

1. Headphone VC and Aeolus
2. Amp EC Aficionado (feedback mod)
3. DAC Bifrost 2
4. Source pi2AES
5. Cables some old bull. Mainly stock ZMF and Hart Audio.

That’s a good system! I really like your choices it must sound great. I think you might like the Chord Qutest if you decide to upgrade your DAC but otherwise I think you would find benefit in some cable upgrades.