[Velozity]

Can I briefly rekindle the headphone cable discussion a few pages back? I've always built my own cables, mostly using bulk Moon Audio Black Dragon. I've heard differences between cables, but I eventually adapted the mindset that once cable materials were of high enough quality, differences between high-quality cables were very difficult to confirm over placebo. Just wondering if it is worth reentering that space, do users of silver/silver plated copper really feel the differences are substantial? If so, I might give Norne or Zach's new silver cable a shot.

Here is my Black Dragon ZMF cable I built and use with the Atticus/Auteur. BTW, I wish the rhodium Oyaide 1/4" plugs I use were more widely available, they just feel rugged as hell, bulletproof quality, but are getting hard to come by. Highly recommended!

I can't comment on sound yet until my headphone breaks in. But I should be able to give you feedback of silver vs. OFC once they do. Speaking of the Oyaide 1/4" plug, you can order it on a Norne cable like I did. It is very nice quality:

 

[L0rdGwyn]

I can't comment on sound yet until my headphone breaks in. But I should be able to give you feedback of silver vs. OFC once they do. Speaking of the Oyaide 1/4" plug, you can order it on a Norne cable like I did. It is very nice quality:

Oh that's good to know! I used to order them from Norne, but one time Trevor told me they were going to stop carrying them. If I end up going with something like the Silvergarde, I'll ask for the Oyaide if it's available.

Yes, please share your thoughts on the sound when you can, I would appreciate it

 

[LCMusicLover]

...do users of silver/silver plated copper really feel the differences are substantial?

Yes, I do hear substantial difs between my Silver Dragon and my Lazuli Reference. I prefer the Laz -- like the bit of warmth it adds vs the bit of brightness the Silver Dragon brings.

 

[thecrow]

Can I briefly rekindle the headphone cable discussion a few pages back? I've always built my own cables, mostly using bulk Moon Audio Black Dragon. I've heard differences between cables, but I eventually adapted the mindset that once cable materials were of high enough quality, differences between high-quality cables were very difficult to confirm over placebo. Just wondering if it is worth reentering that space, do users of silver/silver plated copper really feel the differences are substantial? If so, I might give Norne or Zach's new silver cable a shot.

Here is my Black Dragon ZMF cable I built and use with the Atticus/Auteur. BTW, I wish the rhodium Oyaide 1/4" plugs I use were more widely available, they just feel rugged as hell, bulletproof quality, but are getting hard to come by. Highly recommended!

I had a listen to a silver dragon once with the hd800 and found it too dry.

i inow have the silver draug for my auteur, and others, and it is smooth. I used to have the silvergarde 2 with my hd800. That had more punch on the bottom end and was a bit more vibrant up top.

I really like the silver draug. I may go with the silvergarde 3 if /when i yearn for more kick

 

[L0rdGwyn]

I had a listen to a silver dragon once with the hd800 and found it too dry.

i inow have the silver draug for my auteur, and others, and it is smooth. I used to have the silvergarde 2 with my hd800. That had more punch on the bottom end and was a bit more vibrant up top.

I really like the silver draug. I may go with the silvergarde 3 if /when i yearn for more kick

So what I am hearing is that it isn't so much the conductor per se as it is a combination of conductor and manufacturer. With rave reviews of Norne all around it's hard to look toward another, the Silvergarde S3 is what I was eyeballing, although Zach has me curious with his upcoming cable...

 

[donato]

So what I am hearing is that it isn't so much the conductor per se as it is a combination of conductor and manufacturer. With rave reviews of Norne all around it's hard to look toward another, the Silvergarde S3 is what I was eyeballing, although Zach has me curious with his upcoming cable...

I think you're referring to a series of posts I made fairly recently about various cables I tested with my Auteur. First, I would always caution anyone that it is YMMV. This can depend heavily on your own system (e.g. is it resolving enough?) and then of course on you. I ended up doing basically the same cable comparison with my LCD-4 and someone there asked me if the difference was "drastic". I replied:

""Drastic" would be an overstatement. It is noticeable to me on my equipment (i.e. YMMV) when doing critical listening and it is most noticeable when swapping cables and directly comparing. If I'm listening to music in the background, i would probably largely not notice except for something unpleasant (e.g. sibilance, brightness, hardness which particularly bug me). In the scheme of things, I'd say it's relatively subtle but is a piece to maximize what you have" "if you're not settled yet with gear (HPs, amp, DAC), it's probably worth getting that sorted out first."

"I kind of think of cables kind of like seasoning or salt on a dish. Without it, all the fundamentals/ingredients are there and things taste good, but the right amount of salt, can make the flavors pop just a bit more."

In the end, you won't really know unless you try it out for yourself, ideally on your system with your music for a reasonable amount of time. Chances are you'll hear a difference, but how much and if it's worth it is entirely up to you.

I'd definitely say it is conductor (and not simply copper vs silver since all copper cables didn't sound the same to me and all silver cables didn't either (and there are hybrid cables and there are silver coated copper, etc.) and manufacturer. Norne is a quality manufacturer and there are certainly others.

 

[L0rdGwyn]

I think you're referring to a series of posts I made fairly recently about various cables I tested with my Auteur. First, I would always caution anyone that it is YMMV. This can depend heavily on your own system (e.g. is it resolving enough?) and then of course on you. I ended up doing basically the same cable comparison with my LCD-4 and someone there asked me if the difference was "drastic". I replied:

""Drastic" would be an overstatement. It is noticeable to me on my equipment (i.e. YMMV) when doing critical listening and it is most noticeable when swapping cables and directly comparing. If I'm listening to music in the background, i would probably largely not notice except for something unpleasant (e.g. sibilance, brightness, hardness which particularly bug me). In the scheme of things, I'd say it's relatively subtle but is a piece to maximize what you have" "if you're not settled yet with gear (HPs, amp, DAC), it's probably worth getting that sorted out first."

"I kind of think of cables kind of like seasoning or salt on a dish. Without it, all the fundamentals/ingredients are there and things taste good, but the right amount of salt, can make the flavors pop just a bit more."

In the end, you won't really know unless you try it out for yourself, ideally on your system with your music for a reasonable amount of time. Chances are you'll hear a difference, but how much and if it's worth it is entirely up to you.

I'd definitely say it is conductor (and not simply copper vs silver since all copper cables didn't sound the same to me and all silver cables didn't either (and there are hybrid cables and there are silver coated copper, etc.) and manufacturer. Norne is a quality manufacturer and there are certainly others.

I was absolutely referring to your series of posts (and the line of questioning going along with them), thank you for taking to time to do that, it was very informative.

I understand when you get to this point, it is a more subtle change, I have witnessed that with cable changes in the past. Appreciable, yes, but subtle. I like your salt analogy ultimately, I am sure curiosity will get the better of me and I will give a silver cable like the Silvergarde a try, given that they are so highly endorsed here.

 

[donato]

I was absolutely referring to your series of posts (and the line of questioning going along with them), thank you for taking to time to do that, it was very informative.

I understand when you get to this point, it is a more subtle change, I have witnessed that with cable changes in the past. Appreciable, yes, but subtle. I like your salt analogy ultimately, I am sure curiosity will get the better of me and I will give a silver cable like the Silvergarde a try, given that they are so highly endorsed here.

If I had to generalize, I'd have to say that silver gives more detail/resolution which I think then directly contributes to a better soundstage and also better definition to notes which helps to make out individual lines of music. Silver coated copper does give some of the soundstaging benefits of silver, but it just doesn't quite right to me (unbalanced) in the two times I've tried them (zmf michanikos with Auteur and LCD-4 and OEM cable with Hifiman HEK V2), but maybe it's just me. If you do have a chance, definitely try the silvergarde out. In the end, there's no substitute for trying things out yourself. Have fun!

 

[Pharmaboy]

I was absolutely referring to your series of posts (and the line of questioning going along with them), thank you for taking to time to do that, it was very informative.

I understand when you get to this point, it is a more subtle change, I have witnessed that with cable changes in the past. Appreciable, yes, but subtle. I like your salt analogy ultimately, I am sure curiosity will get the better of me and I will give a silver cable like the Silvergarde a try, given that they are so highly endorsed here.

I don't own a silver or even hybrid silver/copper HP cable. Knowing my treble aversion & general sonic preferences, it just didn't seem wise to try.*

I do own 2 really fine, satisfying, good-sound cables and can recommend either. I use both with w/the Ori, Eikon, HEX v2, pre-fazor LCD-2.1, and Empyrean (and have heard both at length on @jinxy245's Aeolus). Great sound all around:

• ForzaAudioWorks HPC Noir: In aftermarket cable terms, this 2M cable is relatively affordable. It's FAW's top-of-the-line copper cable ("UPOCC pure copper conductor")...physically impressive/well-made, very non-microphonic, a pleasure to touch & use. Wish they offered colors other than black, but that's just me.

https://forzaaudioworks.com/en/product.php?id_product=81
​

• Danacables Lazuli: Their top OFC cable. It's over double the price of the HPC Noir. I'm not sure I could tell the difference between the 2 in blind testing. No matter--it sounds really good.

http://danacables.com/product-category/headphone-cables/lazuli/
http://danacables.com/2019/04/05/lazuli-story/
​

* I own just one silver cable, but it was and is a game changer IMS: the Oyaide R-510 1.3M coaxial cable. Not cheap ($300+) but made an immediate and obviously upgrade to my digital sound. I've used S/PDIF converters for years because coax always sounds better to me, and this cable took coax to a new level

 

[L0rdGwyn]

I don't own a silver or even hybrid silver/copper HP cable. Knowing my treble aversion & general sonic preferences, it just didn't seem wise to try.*

I do own 2 really fine, satisfying, good-sound cables and can recommend either. I use both with w/the Ori, Eikon, HEX v2, pre-fazor LCD-2.1, and Empyrean (and have heard both at length on @jinxy245's Aeolus). Great sound all around:

• ForzaAudioWorks HPC Noir: In aftermarket cable terms, this 2M cable is relatively affordable. It's FAW's top-of-the-line copper cable ("UPOCC pure copper conductor")...physically impressive/well-made, very non-microphonic, a pleasure to touch & use. Wish they offered colors other than black, but that's just me.

https://forzaaudioworks.com/en/product.php?id_product=81
​

• Danacables Lazuli: Their top OFC cable. It's over double the price of the HPC Noir. I'm not sure I could tell the difference between the 2 in blind testing. No matter--it sounds really good.

http://danacables.com/product-category/headphone-cables/lazuli/
http://danacables.com/2019/04/05/lazuli-story/
​

* I own just one silver cable, but it was and is a game changer IMS: the Oyaide R-510 1.3M coaxial cable. Not cheap ($300+) but made an immediate and obviously upgrade to my digital sound. I've used S/PDIF converters for years because coax always sounds better to me, and this cable took coax to a new level

Thanks for your 2¢, I'll look into the Forza, I have heard good things about their brand. The Lazuli looks fanastic, I suppose it is similar in price to the Silvergarde, so worth a look too. I'll have to check out some impressions, however, if you could not hear a difference blindly, makes you wonder if it is worth the extra cost. The way I see it, no matter what direction I go, the resale value on high-quality cables is good. How is the weight on the Forza and Lazuli? Another minor reason I am looking is my Black Dragon could stand to be a bit lighter I think, they jacket and insulation are a bit bulky, another reason the naked Silvergarde is appealing. When you get to the 500+ gram weight in headphones, every little bit counts!

 

[Pharmaboy]

Thanks for your 2¢, I'll look into the Forza, I have heard good things about their brand. The Lazuli looks fanastic, I suppose it is similar in price to the Silvergarde, so worth a look too. I'll have to check out some impressions, however, if you could not hear a difference blindly, makes you wonder if it is worth the extra cost. The way I see it, no matter what direction I go, the resale value on high-quality cables is good. How is the weight on the Forza and Lazuli? Another minor reason I am looking is my Black Dragon could stand to be a bit lighter I think, they jacket and insulation are a bit bulky, another reason the naked Silvergarde is appealing. When you get to the 500+ gram weight in headphones, every little bit counts!

Well, if you're looking for less bulky/more streamlined cable, then neither the FAW HPC Noir nor Lazuli will fit the bill. I like cables w/mass and dimension, and these are like that. I don't experience them as heavy or bulky, not at all, but clearly my standards are different than yours...

FAW does have considerably thinner cables. Their "Claire" models (pure copper & hybrid) are quite petite, and I've read good things about them (but no personal experience):
https://forzaaudioworks.com/en/product.php?id_product=73

 

[erics75]

Those Forza cables look amazing! Anyone in the US order them, and care to comment on the order fulfillment? I'm nervous ordering from Europe, what that process would be like, what hidden/unexpected costs might appear (customs, etc.). How long did it take?

 

[LoryWiv]

I don't own a silver or even hybrid silver/copper HP cable. Knowing my treble aversion & general sonic preferences, it just didn't seem wise to try.*

I consider myself treble sensitive as well, but after researching pro's / con's and chatting w/Trevor at Norne, went with Silvergarde S3 for my ZMF Auteur. Treble is very well extended but absolutely NOT harsh, strident, sibilant or ear-piercing, and the soundstage, detail retrieval and overall frequency balance / tonality are stellar w/Auteur. I've owned and enjoyed a Forza Noir but it get's no use at all anymore. The S3 is beautifully built (albeit pricier than the FAW) and the stereotypes about silver do not hold true at all for the it.YMMV.

 

[jgwtriode]

The Auteur Blackwoods are awesome and can sound much better than the stock cable allows them too!

I enjoy it everytime someone brings up the cable issue. Cables definetly make noticeable differences in numerous aspects of the audio system's chain. Power delivery; both AC and even surprisingly DC, low level signal and of course headphones. I will be honest I don't even bother with stock or ofc cables anymore...I find it limiting to the sound quality of any good headphone.
My two cents! I go directly at least to OCC copper as it is a noticeable improvement in all respects to OFC. Good OCC can do a lot of things that silver cables do, such as detail, extension, staging and improvement in both micro and macro dynamics. OCC silver is even better and adds to these qualities noticeably except is perhaps a bit more neutral or brighter sounding depending on your phones and perspective. Silver Gold OCC combines the best of both by somehow using gold as a bit of an impurity. I really like the Zenwave Audio/Neotech version with
either Furutech's or Eidolic's best rhodium plated connectors. The best I have heard however is Carbon Fiber and Graphene impregnated Carbon Fiber cables. There are only a few companies playing with this stuff. Mad Scientest...Bob made me a set of them. Xindak and Stealth also deal with this stuff. I don't know if they do anything with headphone cables.

Carbon Fiber does everything Silver Gold does but takes out any perceived brightness hardeness or tonal uneveness. The cable is neutral and much larger in its portrayal of soundstage!
Both depth and width! Boundaries of recording space are more obvious and that space is more layered and specifically dimensional. Graphene added to the mix improves all this and adds
a bit of extra punch in the bottom end without changing that balance. It also extends the high frequency a bit without adding any emphasis. It may even be a bit more musical.

Anyway I appreciate cable discussions and my hats off to anyone who chooses to go out there and find ways to improve the quality of their headphones by tweaking them with cables
or frankly any other treatments or tuning devices. Its all part of what makes this hobby so much fun and so damn personal.

Gentleman I salute you.

Happy Listening!

 

[ProfFalkin]

Those Forza cables look amazing! Anyone in the US order them, and care to comment on the order fulfillment? I'm nervous ordering from Europe, what that process would be like, what hidden/unexpected costs might appear (customs, etc.). How long did it take?

Ordered 16 April '18. Delivered to Denver, CO USA on 24 April '18. So... I'd say Forza is pretty darn quick. =)