Why don't more people use EQ to get the desired sound?
Jun 23, 2011 at 1:03 AM Post #121 of 345


Quote:
I think you should play with the EQ more. You probably should also set it to maximum resolution. Standard is generally for mixing purposes. The adjustments you made are fairly dramatic but looking at Shure's FR, that headphone is fairly colored as well, but your adjustments are still just a bit too much. A 24db boost in the upper treble probably won't do you any good and most of your changes are around the +/- 12db range. If you need to make such strong changes, you're better with a different headphone. Play around some more and see if it's necessary. You also don't want the indicators under the graph (in your picture it shows +5.6, +4.1 but usually keeps changing) to show up in the color red. Try not to boost frequencies.
 

 



i made it better by following the graph and ignoring treble. to much treble =
triportsad.gif

 

 
Jun 23, 2011 at 1:08 AM Post #122 of 345


Quote:
I have to say that is a lot of changes that you made. I tried Electri-Q before and it wasn't very clean as some better EQs so there are large latency issues especially from the 9db boost in low range region and 5db recess of treble. If you use linear phase equalizing, you probably don't want to boost frequencies too often and most of your graph are frequency boosts.
 


The main point of my EQ is to 'smooth out' the treble region, there is no recession - I valleyed and peaked at exact points where my ears perceived approx X dB(s) of  deviations from neutrality (via method explained in the "how to eq your headphones" thread). The mids and bass changes were only to my taste (M50's mids are anemic to say the least, also its bass isn't exactly impacting at stock EQ), and I could very well have boosted them from a general bar equalizer e.g. the hardware's.
 
 
Jun 23, 2011 at 2:41 AM Post #123 of 345
Am I the only one who EQs for a more colored sound? When I was uing the AD900s I boosted the bass and treble, brought the bass up to almost normal levels, and gave it a little more air on the top end.
 
Jun 23, 2011 at 2:44 AM Post #124 of 345


Quote:
Am I the only one who EQs for a more colored sound? When I was uing the AD900s I boosted the bass and treble, brought the bass up to almost normal levels, and gave it a little more air on the top end.



As the title of the thread says, "desired" sound can mean corrected sound, fun sound, or both if it matches both criteria for your listening preferences.
 
Jun 23, 2011 at 6:34 AM Post #126 of 345
 
Quote:
I put on my ER4P, set my cowon J3 to flat....   Absolutley HORRID results....
 
I guess im just a "mid fie'r" as someone said above about those that use an EQ


Only mid-fiers use EQ? I have rarely heard anything high-end that sounded balanced through neutral equipment, including HD800, T1, R10, K1000, etc. There's something that makes the words "high-end" and "treble" synonymous, at least IMO. If I were to have those headphones, I would most likely use an EQ whether or not I have a matched amp. I doubt any amp would match my preferences perfectly. Certain songs are mastered with different balances of frequencies and I sometimes adjust for that in EQ.
 
 
Jun 23, 2011 at 6:39 AM Post #127 of 345


Quote:
Am I the only one who EQs for a more colored sound? When I was uing the AD900s I boosted the bass and treble, brought the bass up to almost normal levels, and gave it a little more air on the top end.


Not not every1 is EQing for a flat response. I EQ only by ear to what I personally enjoy the most so that the frequency response curve would probably resemble a bit like this (I prefer a gently slanting slope more than a flat response with both strong bass and forward mids and neutral to slightly rolled-off highs):
 
I wish I had the equipment Dave Rat has so I could measure my EQ'd settings to get a more accurate picture of my personally preferred curve.
 

 
 
Jun 23, 2011 at 6:49 AM Post #128 of 345


Quote:
Not not every1 is EQing for a flat response. I EQ only by ear to what I personally enjoy the most so that the frequency response curve would probably resemble a bit like this (I prefer a gently slanting slope more than a flat response with both strong bass and forward mids and neutral to slightly rolled-off highs):
 
I wish I had the equipment Dave Rat has so I could measure my EQ'd settings to get a perfect picture of my personally preferred curve.
 

 


I generally use software EQ as a neutralizing purpose. If I were to find something as good as my Cowon hardware, I would definitely use it to color also. I usually use my Cowon to color the music as it's good enough. I haven't found a software EQ that was good enough to color without too much negative results. I had hope for the Duende hardware EQ but apparently they became plug-in (which apparently sounded the same as the hardware-based version) and the plug-in didn't sound too good. Now, I'm on the search again for a hardware EQ but I don't want to end up with one that doesn't sound good for music listening purposes like the Duende.
 
 
Jun 23, 2011 at 7:30 AM Post #129 of 345
*** maverick, I never said you could have a 100% neutral headphone. Stop being so anal-retentive. Seriously, can you lighten up? All I said was there are some more neutral headphones than others. WE GET IT! There are no flat curves in audio. Fine. Do you want a medal? Only there are some more headphones flatter-ish than others, and equalizing those will hardly get you closer to reality.
 
Whoever asked me if I found the HD800 neutral: I specified I never listened to it, but looking at its graph can already tell me a lot.
 
And someone else said graphs didn't show everything, which I never implied they did, but they show you how flat the response will or will not be. I know two headphones with the same frequency response graph don't have to sound the same, but they will match their emphasis on certain frequencies. That's all I said.
 
Jun 23, 2011 at 8:42 AM Post #130 of 345
Neutrality is a function of the recording and the headphone.  It is possible for a headphone to be neutral.  If hypothetically someone used the HD800 as the reference for how a track is mixed...when you listen to this hypothetical track on a pair of HD800 the output is neutral.  I'm pretty certain that of the plethora's of headphones available that you will be able to bump into a can with a specific tonal balance that just so happens to match the tonal balance of the mastering equipment used and the sound through the headphone will be for all intents and purposes neutral...or as the recording intended.
 
I am speaking strictly in terms of tonal balance...not soundstage, because soundstage has nothing to do with neutrality, which is all about tonal balance.  If you purchased one of Acix's recordings for instance...the K701 on his tracks is absolutely neutral. 
 
Have you guys not encountered certain tracks that sound correct with the K701 and others correct on the HD650...its obvious.  I don't believe in different cans for different genres either because with different tracks of the same genre...I hear different tonal balances...its all about the recording.  Always has been.
 
 
 
 
 
Jun 23, 2011 at 8:48 AM Post #131 of 345
A new way to spend money, no more a headphone for each genre... but a headphone for each artist!
 
Jun 23, 2011 at 8:52 AM Post #132 of 345
Wrong.  Even different tracks from the same album and artist can end up being mastered with different equipment.  The only way to solve this problem is a headphone for every track!
 
Jun 23, 2011 at 9:43 AM Post #133 of 345
I believe in a headphone for every part of the music! Like rpessing pause and swtiching to a closed model for that guitar solo, then when the vocals come in, swtich back into open and bright.
 
\sarcasm.exe
 
Jun 23, 2011 at 2:53 PM Post #134 of 345
hi,
I do not eq much, perhaps by lack of confidence. I  think I  gave up about eq-ing for better "neutrality". There was  once a head-fi,   a big thread about how to calibrate a headphone (where is it, I can't find it anymore), and I  was wondering if all the "audiophiles" in the thread were not all  nuts. I  just couldn't hear any improvement by following  the advices . It was just very dubious.
 
The problem I  have with eq-ing:
  1. it often sound better when the volume is louder , so when you raise the bar, for a particular frequency bar in the eq,  you are not sure it sound better because it is more "balanced" , or just because the overall volume has increased.
  2. when you eq while listening a music, some frequencies seems unaffected (or you just don't  have any preference). Also some eq  settings might work better with a track/setting than an other.
  3. I  don't know what  is "true" neutral sound,  I  doubt anyone has experienced it.
 
By the way I didn't like at all this electri-q vst plugin. I noticed it was affecting the sound even when flat, and in a bad way. I don't remind what was exactly the problem, I think it was undesirable low level noises, that disappeared when disabling eq. I'd recommend instead the plugin equality by dmg audio, which is not  free, but easier to use,  received lot of praise at kvraudio, and I  didn't notice a problem with it, at  least .
 
My  first "positive" experience with eq (used onboard from realtek), was with the  audioengine a2. Although I  liked how these speakers sound , I  found them very fatiguing,  the sound was too much "on your face". So I lowered the bass and the high, and it was less fatiguing. Then, I  didn't need to raise the volume too high, in order to hear more mid-range details (I  think it's the most important part of sound). But the end result was a bit frustrating, the sound was just much less exciting, than without eq. Until I've learned how to position the speakers correctly (they must not face you, direct the speakers  to the side, and the sound is not anymore on your face, simple as that), and then the eq was  less interesting. The  proof anyway, that eq-ing cannot fix everything, but can help to improve the listening experience.
 
The second "positive"  experience with eq was on my cowon s9. I  thought this mp3 player was enough expensive for not using the EQ (which was supposed to be one of the advantages of the player) , so after seeing a big thread at iaudiophile.net, where all user where posting their favorites setting (often different , for the same headphone), I  wanted to do the same. I  laughed about some eq setting suggested, when I  saw some user boosting both the bass &  the  mach3bass effect to the max with their sennheiser IE8. I  can tell you that I  tried this with my senn IE7, and the result was disgusting,  there's nothing worse than saturated and distorted bass.
 
My conclusion about eq-ing, is that seeking "neutrality", is  fruitless (at least for me) . I think the best way to eq, is to listen at different kind of music, and try to find  "average" settings, that makes everything overall more enticing (what I've done with my cowon).
The keyword, is enticing.
 
Jun 23, 2011 at 3:03 PM Post #135 of 345


Quote:
hi,
I do not eq much, perhaps by lack of confidence. I  think I  gave up about eq-ing for better "neutrality". There was  once a head-fi,   a big thread about how to calibrate a headphone (where is it, I can't find it anymore), and I  was wondering if all the "audiophiles" in the thread were not all  nuts. I  just couldn't hear any improvement by following  the advices . It was just very dubious.
 
The problem I  have with eq-ing:
  1. it often sound better when the volume is louder , so when you raise the bar, for a particular frequency bar in the eq,  you are not sure it sound better because it is more "balanced" , or just because the overall volume has increased.
  2. when you eq while listening a music, some frequencies seems unaffected (or you just don't  have any preference). Also some eq  settings might work better with a track/setting than an other.
  3. I  don't know what  is "true" neutral sound,  I  doubt anyone has experienced it.
 
By the way I didn't like at all this electri-q vst plugin. I noticed it was affecting the sound even when flat, and in a bad way. I don't remind what was exactly the problem, I think it was undesirable low level noises, that disappeared when disabling eq. I'd recommend instead the plugin equality by dmg audio, which is not  free, but easier to use,  received lot of praise at kvraudio, and I  didn't notice a problem with it, at  least .
 
My  first "positive" experience with eq (used onboard from realtek), was with the  audioengine a2. Although I  liked how these speakers sound , I  found them very fatiguing,  the sound was too much "on your face". So I lowered the bass and the high, and it was less fatiguing. Then, I  didn't need to raise the volume too high, in order to hear more mid-range details (I  think it's the most important part of sound). But the end result was a bit frustrating, the sound was just much less exciting, than without eq. Until I've learned how to position the speakers correctly (they must not face you, direct the speakers  to the side, and the sound is not anymore on your face, simple as that), and then the eq was  less interesting. The  proof anyway, that eq-ing cannot fix everything, but can help to improve the listening experience.
 
The second "positive"  experience with eq was on my cowon s9. I  thought this mp3 player was enough expensive for not using the EQ (which was supposed to be one of the advantages of the player) , so after seeing a big thread at iaudiophile.net, where all user where posting their favorites setting (often different , for the same headphone), I  wanted to do the same. I  laughed about some eq setting suggested, when I  saw some user boosting both the bass &  the  mach3bass effect to the max with their sennheiser IE8. I  can tell you that I  tried this with my senn IE7, and the result was disgusting,  there's nothing worse than saturated and distorted bass.
 
My conclusion about eq-ing, is that seeking "neutrality", is  fruitless (at least for me) . I think the best way to eq, is to listen at different kind of music, and try to find  "average" settings, that makes everything overall more enticing (what I've done with my cowon).
The keyword, is enticing.


I'm glad that thread's experience didn't ruin your experience with the Cowon S9. I'd actually recommend boosting the BBE enhancement level and boosting the midrange frequencies to match. I've had very good results by doing the two.
 
 

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