[aimlink]

Currawong,
Interesting read... thanks.

I'm one of those who holds dear that dark background on which the music lies. It's not often that I'll enjoy music that makes me lose touch with that black background and there's a lot out there. If the musical chorus is energetic and obliterates the background then that's fine, provided that it's not mushy. However, I need those less cluttered interludes.

This is why I've been gravitating towards the Magnum 325is and K702 sound. They provide a clarity and separation without that colouration to induce that 'wall' effect that you so nicely describe. If the HD800 does better at this, then I really should be giving it a go.

I'm still indecisive since I now have a pair of Magnums to work with.

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Currawong /img/forum/go_quote.gif Listening, to, say, Alicia Keys as she sings in a recording studio with a degree of resolution that one can visualise the size of the booth she was standing in from the echos off the walls, with some very poor crap laid over her vocals is just too much info.

To me that is the perfect headphones - it's not too much information, it's just letting you hear how poor the original recording is.

On good recordings the sound will be magic.

 

[Skylab]

And therein lies the most difficult balancing act in all of the world of high-end audio - do we listen to recordings - or do we listen to music? They are NOT the same thing, IMO. We have all heard the stories about "audiophiles" who owned $50,000 hi-fi's, and about 20 total recordings, all that were special "audiophile" recordings, and really listened to the gear, and what it was capable of revealing in the recording, not the music itself.

I have never really believed that such an audiophile actually existed. While clearly being an audiophile (and this encompasses head-fi) dictates some degree of interest in gear, it generally includes a strong love of the music itself, in my opinion.

However, I do see some conflicts here. There are people who set as their primary goal having their system articulate exactly what is on the recording to the highest degree possible, regardless of whether that experience is really very enjoyable for any given recording. And then there are people who set the goal for their system to sound as good as possible with the broadest set of recordings possible. From a system perspective, I do believe the goals to be different, and perhaps at some point in the upgrade process, even mutually exclusive goals. And I believe that not all gear serves both goals well.

For me, I am in the latter camp, where it comes to system design. I own 5,000 plus CDs and LP's, and I want to enjoy them ALL, not just the well recorded ones. I further am of the VERY firm belief that there is NO "correct" approach here. It's just a matter of individual bias, desires, and goals. And it's great that it's possible to pursue either approach.

I think it's a shame that some people DO seem to believe that one approach is better than the other. This has been an issue in audiophilia for a very long time, and that is a shame. This is MUSIC reproduction we are discussing - it's like art appreciation. The point is to appreciate it

 

[davidhunternyc]

^^^ Well said, the guy with the iPod and earbuds enjoys his music just as much as any audiophile in the room. With a tap in their step and a smile on their face, hey, maybe they have the last laugh.

 

[Skylab]

Indeed - and likewise, people who use a romantic-sounding single-ended-triode amp may well enjoy music every bit as much as people who have a dead-line-neutral solid-state muscle amp. And why shouldn't they?

 

[musicman59]

Amen Skylab I totall y agree with you.

 

[Currawong]

Nice one Skylab. I've been pondering much the same when I find myself enjoying listening to music in my car via the crappy stereo. If I may add to those thoughts, there are times myself when I really want to be IN the music and feel like I'm there when it was recorded, and times when I just want it as a relaxing addition to what I'm doing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beagle /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes! It's a distraction. Like standing to close to a painting; you see the paint, not the scene.

You'd just reminded me of an analogy I was going to use which I had forgotten about. Many years ago I went to see a Turner exhibition and was trying to understand why his paintings were considered so great. I tried looking close up at the brush strokes to see if they would reveal something, but saw nothing I could understand. It wasn't until I stepped back and took in the whole painting that I understood the magic. I've had similar experiences with Japanese calligraphy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aimlink /img/forum/go_quote.gif Currawong, Interesting read... thanks. I'm one of those who holds dear that dark background on which the music lies. It's not often that I'll enjoy music that makes me lose touch with that black background and there's a lot out there. If the musical chorus is energetic and obliterates the background then that's fine, provided that it's not mushy. However, I need those less cluttered interludes. This is why I've been gravitating towards the Magnum 325is and K702 sound. They provide a clarity and separation without that colouration to induce that 'wall' effect that you so nicely describe. If the HD800 does better at this, then I really should be giving it a go. I'm still indecisive since I now have a pair of Magnums to work with.

I'd say you're not missing out on much, except depth in the soundstage not having the HD-800s. I'd vote that you're better spending on better components to go with your Magnums.

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Willett /img/forum/go_quote.gif To me that is the perfect headphones - it's not too much information, it's just letting you hear how poor the original recording is. On good recordings the sound will be magic.

On good performances with reasonably good recordings too. I listen to a lot of classic Coltrane, for example.

 

[pearljam5000]

Currawong why did you feel that the HD800 are better than the T1?

 

[subtle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acix /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hehehe, You don't need the white things to understand better, you just need to spent some time with the K-702 in the studio and to gain knowledge, you know what I mean. I like the 800 bass, but NOT the upper mids or the high mids and obviously not the sound stage. If you need hps for studio the K702 with a nice cable are the way to go. Maybe you can find your way around with the 800 too, but also you can easy get confused with this emphasis on the upper bass/mid, they just have to much body to sound to be natural. The high mids sound laid-back in relation with the bass/low mid. Remind me of the 650 just with better resolution. I guess Sennheiser need some HD headphones too.

Apparently our ears hear and interpret nothing alike whatsoever. To me, the HD800 sounds nothing at all like the HD650. In no way, shape, or form would I ever think they share similar traits. Honestly, I disliked the HD650 so much that the HD800 was a revelation to me. I could hardly believe it was produced by the same company. It's always interesting to note when you find someone on the forum whose impressions are the polar opposite of yours. It's one less person you have to seek feedback from, so we can cross each other of the list.

 

[Acix]

Quote:

Originally Posted by subtle /img/forum/go_quote.gif Apparently our ears hear and interpret nothing alike whatsoever. To me, the HD800 sounds nothing at all like the HD650. In no way, shape, or form would I ever think they share similar traits. Honestly, I disliked the HD650 so much that the HD800 was a revelation to me. I could hardly believe it was produced by the same company. It's always interesting to note when you find someone on the forum whose impressions are the polar opposite of yours. It's one less person you have to seek feedback from, so we can cross each other of the list.

They share the same boost in the upperbass / lowmids. I don't like the 650, and I happy that Sennheiser made the 800 as a HD hps. I'm sure that in the near future we'll see more and more high resolution hps.

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skylab /img/forum/go_quote.gif And therein lies the most difficult balancing act in all of the world of high-end audio - do we listen to recordings - or do we listen to music? They are NOT the same thing, IMO. We have all heard the stories about "audiophiles" who owned $50,000 hi-fi's, and about 20 total recordings, all that were special "audiophile" recordings, and really listened to the gear, and what it was capable of revealing in the recording, not the music itself.

Yes, it's the old "don't blame the messenger" syndrome, where equipment is so "revealing" that you can't enjoy 3/4 of your music, but it's not the equipment's fault. It's only doing it's job.

But ultimately, isn't its job to deliver the music, not tell you how the music was made? There must be a happy medium somewhere.

Myself, I do not find the HD800 overly analytical. They are rather like the headphone equivalent of a high end loudspeaker; almost totally lacking in coloration, peaks and valleys but, for me, somehow not so much fun to listen to, unless you enjoy them more for the technical achievement than for the emotional impact of the music. But maybe it is impossible to have it both ways.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acix /img/forum/go_quote.gif They share the same boost in the upperbass / lowmids.

In my listening experience, the HD800 is actually more laid back in that region than the HD650. I also find the HD800 to be more mid-hall in contrast to the HD650's 5th row perspective.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by subtle /img/forum/go_quote.gif Apparently our ears hear and interpret nothing alike whatsoever. To me, the HD800 sounds nothing at all like the HD650. In no way, shape, or form would I ever think they share similar traits. Honestly, I disliked the HD650 so much that the HD800 was a revelation to me. I could hardly believe it was produced by the same company. It's always interesting to note when you find someone on the forum whose impressions are the polar opposite of yours. It's one less person you have to seek feedback from, so we can cross each other of the list.

Here we go...a point we both emphatically agree on!

I sold the HD650s because I never felt moved with them from the first time on to the last time.

The HD800s are quite impressive...so much so that I actually finally bit the bullet and bought them today (and sold off a whole lot of gear too)

That wasn't so bad...agreeing on something finally!

 

[Acix]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beagle /img/forum/go_quote.gif In my listening experience, the HD800 is actually more laid back in that region than the HD650. I also find the HD800 to be more mid-hall in contrast to the HD650's 5th row perspective.

Yes, of course the 800 extend deeper then the 650 with a better resolution. The 800 have a cut around 1.000 to 4.000 (mid-hall) also give the warm feel and extend the lowmids even more, and it's a little sad for me because in this frequencies range there is a lot of musical information and maybe the most important info. I feel that Sennheiser can do better, and maybe make a studio monitor hps.

 

[sling5s]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacedonianHero /img/forum/go_quote.gif Here we go...a point we both emphatically agree on! I sold the HD650s because I never felt moved with them from the first time on to the last time. The HD800s are quite impressive...so much so that I actually finally bit the bullet and bought them today (and sold off a whole lot of gear too) That wasn't so bad...agreeing on something finally!

Congrats. Did you sell your Grado RS1 and AH-D7000? You must really like the HD800 to sell both.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by sling5s /img/forum/go_quote.gif Congrats. Did you sell your Grado RS1 and AH-D7000? You must really like the HD800 to sell both.

Yes I did sell both.

To be honest, I just didn't listen to them much with the T1s in house and I did yearn for the HD800s for Pink Floyd, jazz and classical. I think the great detail retrieval and sound stage would make them a great compliment can to my T1s.

I am going to miss the RS1s and D7000s though....I think I already do.