[mrsl]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nak Man Seriously, have you tried them ? With budget stax as lambda basic I don't think there's a need for sub at all. I hear natural, fast and pleasant bass, in fact I believe that bass and mids are actually stax's strong points...

While the Stax have very clean tight bass, it definitely lacks punch. Dynamic phones such as Grado or Senn (HD-600) do have much better punch.

And, of course, as for all headphones, you will not feel the bass - surrounding your whole body - and one notices that - in contrast to a live performance - something is missing. Listening to music is not just hearing, but also feeling it (bass and ultrasonics).

I am very happy with my open Headphone + Subwoofer combo. I do not feel that something is missing anymore.
Believe me, it is damn close to a live performance, and in order to get such a high quality in speakers you would have to spend 10 times more !

If you have been to a live performance and have compared it to a recording listening with decent headphones/speakers you would immediately understand what I mean.

 

[seeberg]

To XtremeD: I've seen these before, and yeah, actual pics is what these guys are asking for. If I had a digicam, I'd already have my "starving artist" rig posted. I've heard that Skywalker ranch uses those Signature 800 series speakers to master stuff, but it makes them hypocrites on the THX policy, since those speakers aren't certified. I wonder why you don't see 'THX Certified headphones'?

's don't need no bunk certification,
Abe

 

[3lusiv3]

Quote:

Originally Posted by seeberg To XtremeD: I've seen these before, and yeah, actual pics is what these guys are asking for.

So true!

 

[seeberg]

Sorry to jump off topic for the moment, but 3lusiv3, where does you avatar come from? I could swear I know, and it really bothers me. Is it the cartoon(in Japan) called G-Force?

 

[jsc3]

Quote:

Originally Posted by XtremeD But that is my point exactly, you do disturb everyone around you. Open headphones give out sound like heck.

I used my Sennheiser 590s laying in bed listening to TV while my wife slept next to me last night. The headphones did not seem to be disturbing her at all, and I could have the TV up loud enough to really hear it. And if I want to listen to something loud, in one room, it isn't shaking the whole house like I would if I use the stereo at a similar perceived volume.

I do agree that listening to a good home stereo using speakers is better than listening to the same source using headphones, but I have found that the neighbors don't enjoy Beethoven's Ninth at Clockwork Orange listening levels at midnight - there is NO way my neighbors are going to hear my headphones no matter how loud I turn them up. I find the 590s more comfortable than the 280s.

 

[Nak Man]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrsl If you have been to a live performance and have compared it to a recording listening with decent headphones/speakers you would immediately understand what I mean.

I don't have 600 but the nova basic's bass sounds as good and punchy as 580's bass while both fell short to that of 650's. If you're looking for visceral effect from subwoofer then any phones even 650 would benefit from the addition of subs (although I might think the hfi 550 can do without them, but they're closed anyway =)

I'm glad that you're very happy with subs combo. I just tried listening to them with stereo 12" subs that's been helping maggies - and found it to be more difficult to follow bass lines from the phones, like phase problem or cancellation on certain freq or something. While I agree that subs can add extra bodily 'punch', I prefer to listen to phones with the subs off, as apart from that problem above I don't think the combo made them sound like real speakers anyway.

And yes, I've been to a real concert, and those decent subs and maggies are right here in front of me.

Edit - sorry, I just read that you also said 600 would also benefit from subwoofer. Btw I noticed that with dynamic phones the cancellation effect that I mentioned was less noticable, but still there. It could be that stat's relatively larger surface area is more prone to interference. I don't know.

 

[coffeeaddict]

Explain to a relative newbie exactly how a headphones + subwoofer combo works?

 

[pbirkett]

I've heard Stax Basic headphones and for me the bass really did lack punch. It was there, but there was no real impact to it. But then, I like to *really* hear bass

 

[seeberg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by coffeeaddict Explain to a relative newbie exactly how a headphones + subwoofer combo works?

The way I see it(I don't practice it though, just so ya know-Grado's don't need subs IMHO) is that the addition of a sub is implemented to give depth, feel, and impact to bass notes that would otherwise be lost through headphones, no matter how good at producing low frequencies accurately they might be. Only thing is, what would that be like as a spectator to someone listening to open cans and a powered sub?

The picture in my head is

,
Abe

 

[Necros]

Grado phones go low, but no way near 20hz or even lower, and with sub bass it's all about feeling bass. You don't get that with headphones.

I guess using a subwoofer at the same time will help giving that low physical impact of things...but it really defeats the purpose of phones (late night listening) you might as well use the full 7.1 system

For movies headphones are trounced by a adequate 7.1 system. Anyone saying otherwise is lying. Now with 2 channel one could be described as better (although IMO speakers still better)

 

[Andrea]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Necros Grado phones go low, but no way near 20hz or even lower, and with sub bass it's all about feeling bass. You don't get that with headphones.

If you hear the bass of some HD650 (just for an example I can vouch for) you may change your mind. (and some HD595s follow closely. I heard just yesterday night an Ani Di Franco album which overwhelmed me with the feelable bass)

But I'm fond of a 'pure' bass reproduction, no basshead stuff please.

 

[TonyTripleA]

At low volumes I believe nothing offers the detail and resolving power of good headphones. At low listening volumes the wonder of good speakers fades for me. Etymotic ER4P/S give a classic example of headphone detail retained at low volume levels... the wow factor remains.

I guess it comes down to what you want to hear. For me its detail and impact at a price that lets me still take the kids on holidays.

TonyAAA

 

[Necros]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrea If you hear the bass of some HD650 (just for an example I can vouch for) you may change your mind. (and some HD595s follow closely. I heard just yesterday night an Ani Di Franco album which overwhelmed me with the feelable bass) But I'm fond of a 'pure' bass reproduction, no basshead stuff please.

Again, headphone bass is not transmitted to your whole body...it's more than just your ears hearing sound.

If you've ever used a rifle, you don't just hear a crack/bang- the force of the round blast is felt across your whole body.

A good scene is Monsters Inc "sock explosion" compare the two on headphones and a good sub....and tell me the headphones are better. Granted a good subwoofer will probably cost 3x-6x more than the 650...but if it's performance, not price....and you can afford it

 

[Andrea]

Necros --
Your argument is pretty understandable. This leads it back again to its core point though -- someone will prefer the eminently visceral, physical sort of emotions; and someone else favour the 'cerebral' side of it.

Note that I personally don't care for 'surround sound' in the least.
I hardly even seriously care for the 'movie' type of "art form".

As far as I'm concerned, it's all about music.

 

[Nak Man]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbirkett But then, I like to *really* hear bass

Implying 531's bass >>> 580's bass ?