[danielghofrani]

It makes sense that getting the bass correct with loudspeakers demands good room acoustics and cosideration of standing waves, etc.
my point is the sony extra bass headphones did not deliver accurate bass. they had the BASS you are talking about. the low "noise" rattles your skull but it also veils out the mids.

 

[Deep Funk]

For the moment my AKG K240 DF being powered by an extra integrated stereo amplifier is quite satisfying. Knowing the the lower notes extend yet lack a certain impact does not bother me since I can raise the bass but I prefer the DF as it sounds. I only raised the treble for extra detail. 
 
With the church organ pieces by Bach I prefer more transparency. To grasp the detail of the notes and dynamics means more to me than having weightier bass tones. Bach's Toccata's are demanding. Maybe one day I can come closer. John Lord's organ in the end of Deep Purple's "Fools" sounded good though. Oh well, sound and music...
 

 

[danielghofrani]

 
Quote:

For the moment my AKG K240 DF being powered by an extra integrated stereo amplifier is quite satisfying. Knowing the the lower notes extend yet lack a certain impact does not bother me since I can raise the bass but I prefer the DF as it sounds. I only raised the treble for extra detail. 
 
With the church organ pieces by Bach I prefer more transparency. To grasp the detail of the notes and dynamics means more to me than having weightier bass tones. Bach's Toccata's are demanding. Maybe one day I can come closer. John Lord's organ in the end of Deep Purple's "Fools" sounded good though. Oh well, sound and music...
 

transparency is of course very important. however I fell where the AD700 lacked the most was the air and power and prescence of the bass notes. dont get me wrong. the transparency and detail were far off a cathedral chamber and a set of "well tempered Clavier"s
but the thing that struck me the most were the feeble, pathetic bass notes. that left me saying: "thats it?! "
 

 

[Uncle Erik]

The reason you didn't enjoy those headphones is because they're not very good for what you want to listen to. And, to be a broken record yet again, the pricetag does NOT mean something is good. If anything, we're awash in expensive and mediocre (at best) equipment.

I also spent a lot of time as an instrumentalist and find a lot of headphones to get it wrong. If you want something very good on a budget, try the AKG K-501 (as well as earlier iterations, like the 500, and 4XX models), the AKG K-240DF, and the Beyerdynamic DT48. Those get things right and I paid $100 or less for them used. If you want to spend more, the Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-800, AKG K-1000, Grado HP-1000, and various Stax 'phones get things right.

The vast majority of headphones out there are voiced for rock and hiphop, since those are the most popular genres. You'll find the bass overemphasized in most of them. Overdone bass is a big seller and I can't blame the companies for trying to please customers. But a certain segment like us won't be happy with them.

You will need an amp for these headphones. I like to recommend old receivers. You might already have one around the house. If not, thrift stores, Craigslist and garage sales will turn them up cheap. If you can spend a little, get a good solid state amp like a Dynalo. The cheap tube amps might look cool, but many aren't built particularly well and some have questionable transformers. Dollar-for-dollar, solid state is better. Tubes can be remarkably good, but you'll either need to drop a lot of cash on one built right or DIY one. DIY, by the way, is a great option if you are interested.

Don't get hung up on the source myth, either. People confuse iPods and laptops sound quality with their internal amps. An iPod has a relatively weak amp suited for efficient IEMs. That does not mean that the output is bad, just that its amp won't power much.

I'd recommend a standalone CD player. If you have a DVD player handy, it'll be fine. If you want something new, the Sony SCD-CE595 is terrific. Think I got mine for around $60 and it plays SACD. Oppo makes a nice player, too, and there's a $100 Sony Blu-Ray player getting strong reviews.

Skip the pricetag snobbery on sources, as well. Some people think that nothing under $1,000 or so is any good. Nonsense. Digital is good and cheap these days. You can pay a lot for a fancy case - a number of manufacturers have been caught using ordinary consumer players inside a fancy box.

So focus on finding a really good pair of headphones. Those, along with excellent recordings, are about 90% of the equation. An amp is probably close to 10% of the rest. Sources aren't worth worrying over unless you're spinning records, but that's a different rant. Another rant is the cable/tweak nonsense. That stuff does nothing but make money for the people selling it.

 

[danielghofrani]

Quote:

The reason you didn't enjoy those headphones is because they're not very good for what you want to listen to. And, to be a broken record yet again, the pricetag does NOT mean something is good. If anything, we're awash in expensive and mediocre (at best) equipment.

I also spent a lot of time as an instrumentalist and find a lot of headphones to get it wrong. If you want something very good on a budget, try the AKG K-501 (as well as earlier iterations, like the 500, and 4XX models), the AKG K-240DF, and the Beyerdynamic DT48. Those get things right and I paid $100 or less for them used. If you want to spend more, the Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-800, AKG K-1000, Grado HP-1000, and various Stax 'phones get things right.

The vast majority of headphones out there are voiced for rock and hiphop, since those are the most popular genres. You'll find the bass overemphasized in most of them. Overdone bass is a big seller and I can't blame the companies for trying to please customers. But a certain segment like us won't be happy with them.

You will need an amp for these headphones. I like to recommend old receivers. You might already have one around the house. If not, thrift stores, Craigslist and garage sales will turn them up cheap. If you can spend a little, get a good solid state amp like a Dynalo. The cheap tube amps might look cool, but many aren't built particularly well and some have questionable transformers. Dollar-for-dollar, solid state is better. Tubes can be remarkably good, but you'll either need to drop a lot of cash on one built right or DIY one. DIY, by the way, is a great option if you are interested.

Don't get hung up on the source myth, either. People confuse iPods and laptops sound quality with their internal amps. An iPod has a relatively weak amp suited for efficient IEMs. That does not mean that the output is bad, just that its amp won't power much.

I'd recommend a standalone CD player. If you have a DVD player handy, it'll be fine. If you want something new, the Sony SCD-CE595 is terrific. Think I got mine for around $60 and it plays SACD. Oppo makes a nice player, too, and there's a $100 Sony Blu-Ray player getting strong reviews.

Skip the pricetag snobbery on sources, as well. Some people think that nothing under $1,000 or so is any good. Nonsense. Digital is good and cheap these days. You can pay a lot for a fancy case - a number of manufacturers have been caught using ordinary consumer players inside a fancy box.

So focus on finding a really good pair of headphones. Those, along with excellent recordings, are about 90% of the equation. An amp is probably close to 10% of the rest. Sources aren't worth worrying over unless you're spinning records, but that's a different rant. Another rant is the cable/tweak nonsense. That stuff does nothing but make money for the people selling it.

  Thanks a lot Uncle Erik! I learned a lot!
I totally understand what you mean by the price tag!! the 279$ DR.Dre headphones are much much worse than the AD700s!
I am not too interested in a CD (or DVD or BluRay) player really because that means I have to listen to disks all the time. I like to purchase my music from HDtracks and keep it on my computer. is there any choice for high quality computer audio?
 
Also I really like DIY as well. I am an Electrical and Computer engineering student in university and I have soldered a lot of electronic kits together.
but I did not know about the quality there were no reviews.
 
also I have a laptop with no coaxial or optical connection. I only have USB. I might need an external USB DAC/amp but I am not sure.
so are you saying that 24/96 is nonesense? it is all about the amp and the headphones?
 
please help me because I was really dissapointed with the Shure SRH840s with no amp and DAC. good thing it was my friends and I did not buy my own!!

 

[Elorian]

I'd like to propose an experiment for you (and I'd be curios to hear the results):  Go to a local high end audio salon, tell them your background and what you are looking for in terms of sound reproduction and ask to audition a cost no object system to hear what is possible in reproduced sound.  Something along the lines of Dynaudio Evidence Master speakers with associated upstream gear of like quality (there are many other fine choices in speakers, this is just one option).  Be sure the room is properly treated for acoustics (neither too live nor too damped- I've heard both) and preferably have them spin some vinyl of a recording that you are very familiar with on a top notch turntable (Rockport Sirius if you get extremely lucky!).
 
If this still leaves you unimpressed (and it might), then no headphone will have a prayer of doing what you are hoping for.  If you do like what you hear, pay close attention to exactly what it is about the reproduction that really bridges the gap for you and then come back here and describe for us what you liked.  Hopefully someone will then be able to steer you in the right direction headphone-wise to get a good portion of that sound for a couple hundred thousand less .
 
Best of luck!

 

[olor1n]

Quote:

The reason you didn't enjoy those headphones is because they're not very good for what you want to listen to. And, to be a broken record yet again, the pricetag does NOT mean something is good. If anything, we're awash in expensive and mediocre (at best) equipment.

I also spent a lot of time as an instrumentalist and find a lot of headphones to get it wrong. If you want something very good on a budget, try the AKG K-501 (as well as earlier iterations, like the 500, and 4XX models), the AKG K-240DF, and the Beyerdynamic DT48. Those get things right and I paid $100 or less for them used. If you want to spend more, the Sennheiser HD-600 and HD-800, AKG K-1000, Grado HP-1000, and various Stax 'phones get things right.

The vast majority of headphones out there are voiced for rock and hiphop, since those are the most popular genres. You'll find the bass overemphasized in most of them. Overdone bass is a big seller and I can't blame the companies for trying to please customers. But a certain segment like us won't be happy with them.

You will need an amp for these headphones. I like to recommend old receivers. You might already have one around the house. If not, thrift stores, Craigslist and garage sales will turn them up cheap. If you can spend a little, get a good solid state amp like a Dynalo. The cheap tube amps might look cool, but many aren't built particularly well and some have questionable transformers. Dollar-for-dollar, solid state is better. Tubes can be remarkably good, but you'll either need to drop a lot of cash on one built right or DIY one. DIY, by the way, is a great option if you are interested.

Don't get hung up on the source myth, either. People confuse iPods and laptops sound quality with their internal amps. An iPod has a relatively weak amp suited for efficient IEMs. That does not mean that the output is bad, just that its amp won't power much.

I'd recommend a standalone CD player. If you have a DVD player handy, it'll be fine. If you want something new, the Sony SCD-CE595 is terrific. Think I got mine for around $60 and it plays SACD. Oppo makes a nice player, too, and there's a $100 Sony Blu-Ray player getting strong reviews.

Skip the pricetag snobbery on sources, as well. Some people think that nothing under $1,000 or so is any good. Nonsense. Digital is good and cheap these days. You can pay a lot for a fancy case - a number of manufacturers have been caught using ordinary consumer players inside a fancy box.

So focus on finding a really good pair of headphones. Those, along with excellent recordings, are about 90% of the equation. An amp is probably close to 10% of the rest. Sources aren't worth worrying over unless you're spinning records, but that's a different rant. Another rant is the cable/tweak nonsense. That stuff does nothing but make money for the people selling it.

Uncle Erik, your lone voice of reason on this forum is greatly appreciated. I know you've garnered some criticism in other threads but keep fighting the fight man! I try not to take anyone's word as gospel here, but some of the advice you've given has at least made me pause to seek more information on that next inexplicable impulse buy. I'm sure I'm not the only one who values these insights.

 

[danielghofrani]

Quote:

I'd like to propose an experiment for you (and I'd be curios to hear the results):  Go to a local high end audio salon, tell them your background and what you are looking for in terms of sound reproduction and ask to audition a cost no object system to hear what is possible in reproduced sound.  Something along the lines of Dynaudio Evidence Master speakers with associated upstream gear of like quality (there are many other fine choices in speakers, this is just one option).  Be sure the room is properly treated for acoustics (neither too live nor too damped- I've heard both) and preferably have them spin some vinyl of a recording that you are very familiar with on a top notch turntable (Rockport Sirius if you get extremely lucky!).
 
If this still leaves you unimpressed (and it might), then no headphone will have a prayer of doing what you are hoping for.  If you do like what you hear, pay close attention to exactly what it is about the reproduction that really bridges the gap for you and then come back here and describe for us what you liked.  Hopefully someone will then be able to steer you in the right direction headphone-wise to get a good portion of that sound for a couple hundred thousand less .
 
Best of luck!

Thanks for the suggestion friend!
I would absolutely love to do that however there is no local high end audio store around here.
there is only a generic audio Video 2001 store that has recievers and also bestbuy and future shop.

 

 

[GeorgeGoodman]

Travel a little bit! Go on vacation and seek a nice store out! I am sure the experience will be enlightening and rewarding. Also, Uncle Erik's advice is very valuable. He is a voice of reason on this crazy forum, and while I don't know if i agree with him 100% on what improves the sound and what doesn't he has to be right something like 90%, a much better average than most of Head-fi. He is right in saying that you don't have to spend too much to get good sound, just go with the commonsense options. The right headphone is a lot of the equation, and remember, if a headphone sounds right but not quite right, there are always modded headphones available even if you don't want to do the work. I am sure you will find something that sounds like music to you.

 

[danielghofrani]

Quote:

Travel a little bit! Go on vacation and seek a nice store out! I am sure the experience will be enlightening and rewarding. Also, Uncle Erik's advice is very valuable. He is a voice of reason on this crazy forum, and while I don't know if i agree with him 100% on what improves the sound and what doesn't he has to be right something like 90%, a much better average than most of Head-fi. He is right in saying that you don't have to spend too much to get good sound, just go with the commonsense options. The right headphone is a lot of the equation, and remember, if a headphone sounds right but not quite right, there are always modded headphones available even if you don't want to do the work. I am sure you will find something that sounds like music to you.

well with the current situation it is a little hard to go on vacation!! however I am trying as many headphones as I can (belonging to friends).
I am priviliged to get Uncle Erik's advice, and I will try to stick to it.
the idea of modded headphones is nice but there are literally hundreds of headphones out there I am sure that one of them is going to be just right.
one thing I am thinking is that I should listen to a proper headphone amplifier and DAC because maybe my initial reaction to the mentioned headphones was premature.
I only listened to them with the DAPs and the laptop. I did not hook them up to any amps or dacs.
do you know if a high resolution dac helps?
 

 

[Deep Funk]

Of course a high resolution DAC can help. 
 
First though make sure there is enough power for the headphone to 'wake up'. 
 
Good luck...

 

[danielghofrani]

Quote:

Of course a high resolution DAC can help. 
 
First though make sure there is enough power for the headphone to 'wake up'. 
 
Good luck...

Thanks!
"Wake up" lol I liket that!!
 

 

[chrisjackson]

I believe the discontinued Sennheiser HD580 has the same drivers as the HD600; maybe one to add to Uncle Erik's list of headphones to look out for?
If you can find one of these and decide your laptop isn't up to the job of driving them, the Vivid V1 is supposed to be a good companion (try Head-Fi search). Not for high sample/bitrate recordings though.

 

[Syan25]

If you are using a USB port - you really do want a transparent DAC/AMP. Personally, the Shure SRH-840s are great for me and I am a concert pianist and composer. I've been professionally involved in music for thirty years now. They can't compete with hi-end cans but they are pretty damn good.
 
The SRH 840's don't need an amp but they do improve with one. Also - seriously - the DAC is really important....

 

[Syan25]

Hi-resolution DAC/Amps will greatly enhance what you listen to. The CEntrance DACport, the HRT Music Streamer II +, NuForce U-Dac 2, these are possibilities...but listen to them first if you can.