[up late]

^ in your opinion

 

[Dualscreens2]

^ in your opinion

Not my opinion its more fact.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/hug...ur-own-comparisons-here-thanks-giogio.808325/

 

[up late]

^ i'm familiar with that comparison, which is an impressive exercise but entirely subjective - as is your opinion

 

[sejsel]

Well, from everything I have read across this and some other threads, that extensively mention the Grado PS1000e (PS1Ke) - I think we might AS WELL deal here with some variation between the units.

Of course we all do hear differently, but it is a bit difficult to comprehend such variation in impressions and comparisons of the PS1000e with - say GS1000 or other headphones. This I write in conjuction with my humble experience, thus far, of the PS1000e.

This, of course (regarding the variation in the sound between the units) may or may not be true, it is just the impression I got after some extensive reading.

What is my experience with the Grado PS1000e?

I have got the used, but like new PS1000e just recently, and having them since then on the burn-in 6 hours every night, off of the FM, on very moderate volume.
Apart from the burn-in hours, i have had thus far some hours of listening of the recorded FM programs and other source material (usually of the higher quality) as well.

I have felt some improvements, although minor, over about 220h thus far.
However, the sound characteristics of the headphone still remain, in comparison with some other I got here.

Those others are: Sennheiser HD800, Grado GS1000 (two of them, sounding identical), Grado PS500, AKG K701 (well burned in) as well a well burned in AKG K702, Audio Technica ATH-MSR7, as well as ATH-W1000X.

I would, regarding the sonic signature and - well, sound quality, put all of these headphones (we can leave out the Audio Technicas out of the equation, although the MSR7 to me is an excellent sounding headphone) on one side, and the PS1000e on the other side, in terms of headphones feeling Hi-Fi.

Why?

I cannot quite figure out what was the intention with the tuning of the PS1000e - the one I got at home, except that someone perhaps wanted to create a dead neutral headphone, albeit with very decent bass presence.

What really puzzles me is how "narrow" that bass feel - a one note bass, no bandwidth when compared to all of the other headphones here.
The bass in particular feels also rather constricted, constrained, boxed in, really not highly resolved either.
Someone wrote that the PS1000e was almost overdamped (this was a person who generally loves the PS1000e he owns), and to my ears, with the one I got here, it sounds like they went kind of overboard with damping the response, almost across the range, but in particular with bass.
This comes from me - someone who can easily be classified as the opposite of the bass-head - even though GS1000 and PS500 are nearing the suspect bass cathegory, according to some - many.

The bass response in PS1000e feels like not layered at all, lacking in resolution and refinement in comparison to all of the other headphones here, AKG K701 and K702 feel more pleasant to listen, same or even clearly larger(!!) and better bass quantity but far more refined, layered, resolved, more "hi-fi".
Same goes for comparison with the HD800 (not lacking in bass, with the source material here - the lowest resolution being the Red Book standard).

In the PS1000e, it is a very dry feeling bass, but also rather lacking in width and the resolution, and comparatively (to all the others) even the quantity - as the headphone has not opened up yet - or never will.

The PS500 are well known for the mid bass hump, which I am very sensitive to and I generally hate bloated and ill defined bass response, yet - the PS500 feel far more pleasant to listen to/with - almost across the genres, but in particular with modern EDM or electronic or pop music.

GS1000 feel more precise and more vibrant in bass response, but also generally more nimble and lively, despite having a more of a U shaped sound signature.
But they feel comparatively far more engaging to listen to, and the better mastered the source material is, the more apparent this becomes.

Sennheiser HD800 were a very positive surprise to me, after all the negatives that could be read about them all over the place, and all sorts of different opinions about them.
Simply a great headphone, again, to my ears.

I would want to believe that all this, in regard to the PS1000e, is due to:

The lengthy process of burn-in required to get these (the PS1000e) to sound as they can;
The variation between the units, mine perhaps being less fortunate one;
Or - sadly - an entirely different tuning, albeit a flawed one, to my ears.

I would love to get my hands on the sonically well measured example of the PS1000, non e, another PS1000e, well burned in or not, for comparisons.

As for the time being - I do see some qualities, but at the same time am really very underwhelmed and kind of disappointed.

I do not hear distortion nor any obvious defect in my example, no matter how hard I have pushed them, they do not distort, no resonance whatsoever, nor fail to respond in proportion to the volume knob, very stable - but - at the same time, they do not feel anything alike other headphones here, thus far, in terms of lush sound. It sounds like the derivative of the AKG K401 or 501 or 500, in terms of somewhat limited bandwidth, as someone went overboard in wanting to tune this to be dead neutral.
This I write after some extensive listening and comparisons.

I would want to stress, in the end, that this is my SUBJECTIVE experience.
I am, in no way, expressing this to be the "absolute truth", nor am I in any way disputing the very positive experience some other headfiers have had and have with their PS1000e, even when comparing with the GS2000(e), GS1000 - e, i or the original, other Grados or other headphones in general.

I am Grado afficionado as well, no doubt about it.
Even by seeing how the GS1000 could be improved, comparatively, I still rank them very high, and prefer them vastly (sadly so) to the PS1000e I got here.
I just hope my example are simply not like the other PS1000e.

The sources used are mainly of the at least 44,1 kHz and, 16 or 24 bit quality. At times even the 48 kHz & 320 kbit/s web streams (BBC radio one).

The amps: a well executed AMB M^3, a nice DAC with it, and the other rig is the Quad Pa One all valve (tube) headphone amp&DAC, transformer coupled. I have even run them straight out of the headphone jack of the MacBook Pro Retina, early 2015, just for comparison - they run just fine out of it.

I have hoped that the PS1000e might have felt underamped - but the final test with the Quad Pa One kind of proved otherwise, since they did not sound significantly different, more open - less constrained - with the amp that otherwise runs the hell out of the AKG K701, K702, Sennheiser HD800, GS1000 and some others.

I have not decided yet whether I will put my PS1000e for sale, I would love to keep them, but as I have said, for the time being, I have a nagging feeling that I might end up preferring even the PS1000 to these.
Coming from someone who has been a long time user of the AKG K702 and K701 (well burned in), this may or may not sound really confusing, and a bit strange.

 

[OnlySoMany]

Yes they sound amazing. As amazing as their sound is, the level of discomfort is just as high. Heavy, horrible pads, and also cable. But yes, they sound great.

 

[mortcola]

Fascinating read, really.

I'm a long-time Grado lover, have owned all the higher-0end models. I have a nice collection of flagship headphones now, but my GS3000x, PS500e, and Rs1X still get lots of playing time for the things Grado does as well as anyone in the business.
With the PS2000e, which I loved, I thought I had great bass - I had excellent Grado-bass. Tuneful, good impact, good groove, great presence. I learned that Grado's design sacrifices sub-bass.... if measurements tell me the bass roll-off is at XXhz, Jaco's open E-string bass on Joni Mitchell's "Overture/Cotton Avenue" is at 34hz. Heard itmmyself.... the bass grabbed me, felt good.... but the fundamental tone, the recognizable "E", wasn't there except as a tint, a whiff. The Final D8000 Pro, the Abyss (for sure), the Susvara.... nail the whole seismic pluck and long decay.
Frederic Alarie's "Exchange" on Mega Bass (cheesy title for a refined and interesting chamber-jazz collection) has the Octo-bass, 8 ft sub-bass bass fiddle which one plays with keys, not plucks, while standing on a platform, has an 18hz tone repeating thru it. On most of the (much more expensive) headphones, the note itself sings out. On the Abyss, it sings out TIGHTLY, with 100% presence along with the whole history of the tone and decay. The others, almost that good. The Utopia? You get the bottom note, with nice cuddly roundness, but without the speed or clarity of the note. The Utopia is, to me, far, far behind the flagship planar-magnetics in resolution across the board, except for the vocal midrange. The Grado GS3000e and x actually presents small details in the mix more clearly in many cases than the Utopia. But that Sub-Bass bass is barely a faint whisper on the Grado. Using a Bliss KTE amp and a Woo WA5. Great, powerful amps, very different.

But Grado is sui generis. I don't think most of us buy a Grado because it was a better headphone than another flagship. Grado is, to me, comparable to a SET amp/big horn-loaded speaker. It has a signature; it will infuriate people who think their subjectivity-massagers should obey objective standards, acoustically, measurably. But you like Grado because they capture the feel of real music better than some cans costing double or more.

Why I will always have a few Grado cans on hand. They get some things righter than right.
The PS1000e was, to me, exactly as you described. Thin, colorless bass... "ver damped" was a word I used in an early write up of it. Good resolution, but I don't think they ever got the proper balance of the driver-tweaking for the PS1000e and the resonance-control function of the wood/metal enclosure. The PS2000e fixed that substantially, and brought back some of the beautiful timbres and harmonics.

I got rid of the PS1000e after two months. They did nothing for me. Clear and lifeless. I've never said that about anything else made by Grado.
And while the GS3000x isn't up to the standard of a Susvara, or the Final D8000 Pro (which is almost as detailed, with a seductive timbral shimmer, more an ambiance than a coloration, while being a great critical listening headphone, with phenomenal spatial and tactile qualities, has hit my sweet-spot to a huge degree), their new design - maybe the ideal balance of woody tonal propagation and the control provided by a smaller internal metal sleeve - brings the listener much closer to the endgame values, again at 50% or less of the other er cans in the collection. Grado uniqueness with a higher degree of refinement than any other model.

The PS1000e was the opposite: clean to the point of etched (the early death of the dynamic and tonal envelopes, leaving an imbalance of leading edge to resonant decay, in the interpretation my ears were making), and absolutely literal... as if the musicians were bored.

As for variability between units, I have no idea. But that was not what I expect of a Grado headphone. John, Rich, Jonathan, and loyal staff know exactly who and what they are. That model wasn't allowed to stay on the bench or in the cask, long enough.

Thanks, good reading!

Well, from everything I have read across this and some other threads, that extensively mention the Grado PS1000e (PS1Ke) - I think we might AS WELL deal here with some variation between the units.

Of course we all do hear differently, but it is a bit difficult to comprehend such variation in impressions and comparisons of the PS1000e with - say GS1000 or other headphones. This I write in conjuction with my humble experience, thus far, of the PS1000e.

This, of course (regarding the variation in the sound between the units) may or may not be true, it is just the impression I got after some extensive reading.

What is my experience with the Grado PS1000e?

I have got the used, but like new PS1000e just recently, and having them since then on the burn-in 6 hours every night, off of the FM, on very moderate volume.
Apart from the burn-in hours, i have had thus far some hours of listening of the recorded FM programs and other source material (usually of the higher quality) as well.

I have felt some improvements, although minor, over about 220h thus far.
However, the sound characteristics of the headphone still remain, in comparison with some other I got here.

Those others are: Sennheiser HD800, Grado GS1000 (two of them, sounding identical), Grado PS500, AKG K701 (well burned in) as well a well burned in AKG K702, Audio Technica ATH-MSR7, as well as ATH-W1000X.

I would, regarding the sonic signature and - well, sound quality, put all of these headphones (we can leave out the Audio Technicas out of the equation, although the MSR7 to me is an excellent sounding headphone) on one side, and the PS1000e on the other side, in terms of headphones feeling Hi-Fi.

Why?

I cannot quite figure out what was the intention with the tuning of the PS1000e - the one I got at home, except that someone perhaps wanted to create a dead neutral headphone, albeit with very decent bass presence.

What really puzzles me is how "narrow" that bass feel - a one note bass, no bandwidth when compared to all of the other headphones here.
The bass in particular feels also rather constricted, constrained, boxed in, really not highly resolved either.
Someone wrote that the PS1000e was almost overdamped (this was a person who generally loves the PS1000e he owns), and to my ears, with the one I got here, it sounds like they went kind of overboard with damping the response, almost across the range, but in particular with bass.
This comes from me - someone who can easily be classified as the opposite of the bass-head - even though GS1000 and PS500 are nearing the suspect bass cathegory, according to some - many.

The bass response in PS1000e feels like not layered at all, lacking in resolution and refinement in comparison to all of the other headphones here, AKG K701 and K702 feel more pleasant to listen, same or even clearly larger(!!) and better bass quantity but far more refined, layered, resolved, more "hi-fi".
Same goes for comparison with the HD800 (not lacking in bass, with the source material here - the lowest resolution being the Red Book standard).

In the PS1000e, it is a very dry feeling bass, but also rather lacking in width and the resolution, and comparatively (to all the others) even the quantity - as the headphone has not opened up yet - or never will.

The PS500 are well known for the mid bass hump, which I am very sensitive to and I generally hate bloated and ill defined bass response, yet - the PS500 feel far more pleasant to listen to/with - almost across the genres, but in particular with modern EDM or electronic or pop music.

GS1000 feel more precise and more vibrant in bass response, but also generally more nimble and lively, despite having a more of a U shaped sound signature.
But they feel comparatively far more engaging to listen to, and the better mastered the source material is, the more apparent this becomes.

Sennheiser HD800 were a very positive surprise to me, after all the negatives that could be read about them all over the place, and all sorts of different opinions about them.
Simply a great headphone, again, to my ears.

I would want to believe that all this, in regard to the PS1000e, is due to:

The lengthy process of burn-in required to get these (the PS1000e) to sound as they can;
The variation between the units, mine perhaps being less fortunate one;
Or - sadly - an entirely different tuning, albeit a flawed one, to my ears.

I would love to get my hands on the sonically well measured example of the PS1000, non e, another PS1000e, well burned in or not, for comparisons.

As for the time being - I do see some qualities, but at the same time am really very underwhelmed and kind of disappointed.

I do not hear distortion nor any obvious defect in my example, no matter how hard I have pushed them, they do not distort, no resonance whatsoever, nor fail to respond in proportion to the volume knob, very stable - but they do not feel anything alike hi-fi headphone thus far, anything alike all the others at my disposal here.
This I write after some extensive listening and comparisons.

I would want to stress, in the end, that this is my SUBJECTIVE experience.
I am, in no way, expressing this to be the "absolute truth", nor am I in any way disputing the very positive experience some other headfiers have had and have with their PS1000e, even when comparing with the GS2000(e), GS1000 - e, i or the original, other Grados or other headphones in general.

I am Grado afficionado as well, no doubt about it.
Even by seeing how the GS1000 could be improved, comparatively, I still rank them very high, and prefer them vastly (sadly so) to the PS1000e I got here.
I just hope my example are simply not like the other PS1000e.

The sources used are mainly of the at least 44,1 kHz and, 16 or 24 bit quality. At times even the 48 kHz & 320 kbit/s web streams (BBC radio one).

The amps: a well executed AMB M^3, a nice DAC with it, and the other rig is the Quad Pa One all valve (tube) headphone amp&DAC, transformer coupled.

I have not decided yet whether I will put my PS1000e for sale, I would love to keep them, but as I have said, for the time being, I have a nagging feeling that I might end up preferring even the PS1000 to these.
Coming from someone who has been a long time user of the AKG K702 and K701 (well burned in), this may or may not sound really confusing, and a bit strange.

 

[sejsel]

Well, there seems to be some problem with the quotes and multi-quotes in the head-fi editor - nevertheless - @mortcola - very eloquently written (as always, since I have read most of your posts about the Grado PS series).

I love Grados for all the qualities you mention - hence, I was a bit stunned by the hearable departure that the PS1000e presented, from the - I quote you:

"The PS2000e fixed that substantially, and brought back some of the beautiful timbres and harmonics."

To me - the both of my identical sounding GS1000 units, as well as, yes even the PS500, truly posses these qualities (as you report the PS2000e fixed the matter, which makes me curious about them), it is hearable from the word go, and stands in some contrast to the PS1000e.

While I do se that the PS1000e is very "correct" in putting everything in place, the truth is told, as my ears do hear it at this time, in what you write further on:

"The PS1000e was the opposite: clean to the point of etched (the early death of the dynamic and tonal envelopes, leaving an imbalance of leading edge to resonant decay, in the interpretation my ears were making), and absolutely literal... as if the musicians were bored."

It is as the decay (the natural one, as we hear it or like to hear it) has been cut off either prematurely or completely, thus - leaving one wanting and feeling the headphones and sound rather constricted, constrained in bandwidth.

Another quote from your post:
"I got rid of the PS1000e after two months. They did nothing for me. Clear and lifeless. I've never said that about anything else made by Grado."
pretty much sums up my impressions thus far, somehow it feels that the Grado-life of the life like presentation Grados have, with all the rhythmical and the dynamical advantages it has even over the otherwise to me excellent HD800 have been sucked out by overdamping in the PS1000e.

I have the same - very unqualified, on my behalf, suspicion that all of that is due to the - I quote you again:
"Good resolution, but I don't think they ever got the proper balance of the driver-tweaking for the PS1000e and the resonance-control function of the wood/metal enclosure".
It is difficult for me to understand the gravity of what the Grado have done in departure from their sound (in general terms) with the PS1000e, as I would not describe these as lively as the others I got, no way near - quite the opposite. The feeling you got is what I feel as well - these not doing anything for me, in contrast to the GS1000 and even PS500.

All of this makes me utterly confused - reading the positive reviews, posts from some who have had both PS1000 and PS1000e and firmly think that the latter is the better headphone, as well as they feel that the PS2000e surpasses the both, while many others discard both PS2000e and PS1000e and are firmly preferring the PS1000.

I am curious about both PS2000e and even PS1000 at this point. It would be cool to be able to compare.
As of this point, I am approaching the point of selling the PS1000e, or possible exchanging them, or - well, lusting for the PS2000e that I might never be able to get, simply due to the somewhat prohibitive cost.

I do have some headphones here that I am really happy about, so perhaps no point in draining the budget further.

Many thanks again, @mortcola , for the well written and insightful reply.

 

[sejsel]

Interesting pair, these...

Fast forward, after a substantial period of burn-in (6 hours each night, about two months).

A lot has changed with these. Which makes all of this - in particular my previous post(s) here rather funny, and sort of half-embarrassing, in retrospective.

While retaining some of the "dry"-ish sound signature, they sound to me like they have opened up substantially on both ends, and even in the middle.

Still, about the "tightest" sounding par of cans, in terms of control of the driver behaviour, in particular how they control decay on the bass... unlike any other headphone I have experienced thus far, any from Grado, or others - HD800, Audio Technicas, even the AKG K701 or K702 (hard to believe, but yes).

More reference sounding than GS1000 (those have a special place in my heart, and that is going to remain), more damped, but still rich in their own way, quite reference-like (although I am aware of many reviewers pointing out that these are still (very) slightly U-shaped compared to absolute ruler-flat like FR).

I am most likely going to stay with these...

Very curious about any detailed comparisons with PS2000e, I am going to read on again on PS2000e.

Yes, it is a strange hobby, I know...