Knowing your favorite genre, of which I am also a huge fan, I can see why proper bass is so important. To answer your question, no, I've never really listened to a proper closed headphone. My father might pick up a HD280 Pro or K371, and I'll get to experience it. But I was under the assumption that planar headphones were always going to have the most sophisticated bass. Is that not true?
From the mid 1970s till the mid 2000s, I never gave second thought to improvement of sound due to new headphones. I mean, yes I got a couple pair a headphones but I just used them. But I didn’t question the sound that much. Funny too as I was involved with home recording studios and a record collector?
Finally in 1998 I purchased a pair of Sony CD870 headphones. They were closed back, but actually I never gave it a thought of open or closed? But they were closed and I really liked the sound. Then around 2007 I found Head-Fi while researching the k701 headphones. I thought “Wow, these folks are really into headphones.” I purchased the k701 (open backs). I tried to make them work, but they were too bass shy? Still they were interesting and lead me to enjoy a new sound signature.
Later I found the new sound signature (an alternative) in IEMs. But no matter what closed backs always sounded better? The Denon AH-D7000 headphones are amazing. Also the Sony MDR-Z1R seem to work.
The main thing is if you begin to experiment with closed backs you need to give yourself time to adjust. If open-back is all you have ever heard it takes a while to understand what’s going on. Literally what seems wrong at first will start to sound natural. This phenomenon is one of the most profoundly misunderstood and perplexing part of Head-Fi. Even the larger group of listeners which prefer closed backs will need a day or two with a new model.
This phenomenon is the main reason why “in-store” demos don’t work. There is also special attention to the lower midrange and bass (due to amp power/source) which means it may need adjusting. What I’m saying is if you take the majority of audiophile headphones and plug them into a weak source/amp.........the open backs will often sound superior.
So that leads us to whole systems. Whole systems are responsible for the sound. But most important, whole systems will take the lower midrange fog that is present in closed backs and clean it up.....at times. So it’s critical that the power of the amp and closed back are matched. Even the source (computer or DAP is important in this regard) More power will also tighten up and speed up the bass response.
Where you end up is a question of personal taste, but generally open back headphones will not show the issue with “bass fog” as much as closed. Finally the route to success is often debated. Meaning some users will take the closed backs apart and use dampening material to get a faster bass. Also the “bass fog” can be cleared up with this style of modification. Still take the same closed back headphone and leave it stock, but get it a more powerful amp and the same “fixs” occur.
So this is where the damping factor of the amp comes into play. Often people just take a closed back and plug it into any amp and feel that it.........that it’s the headphone’s fault for having a bad lower midrange. This single factor has been responsible for many to view closed backs as inferior. I’m not saying cup resonated sounds don’t happen cause obviously they do. But you would be surprised getting the sound that closed backs do when everything is optimal and your used to the sound.
Thus, Dampening a physical phenomenon and Damping and electronic phenomenon take place. In a way they are the same in sound quality! Many don’t realize this but both Damping and Dampening are also responsible for imaging. It’s mostly the headphone but the amp and the headphone create the perceived amount of imaging!
The interesting part is after a more powerful amp is used (often) lower volume gets used. Also the bass may only be 1dB more but due to the detail.............will seem like much much more. This phenomenon is a regular thing........to the point that more detailed bass always sounds like more bass.
Well to flip the script are there open backs that do tight and precise imaging as well as well made closed backs? Listening to japanese edm and lots of european metal I find the imaging sorely lacking on open backs such as the HD800S and ADX5000. The closest open back I would say has good imaging would be the verite open but thats semi closed anyways.
Particularly important esp in a era where its common to layer 6 or more different synths/instruments on top of each other.
I don't get out much but I have head the LCD-X, TH900 mk2, Stellia, Verite Closed and since I was on the dealers time, I left them all (but 1) behind inside of 10 minutes for more promising items such as HEKse, Susvara, E2, etc.
Fostex bass was annoying and false. Verite also bassey and colored. LCD lacks low level detail and tone. Stellia was very good, best closed back I've heard,
I don't get out much but I have head the LCD-X, TH900 mk2, Stellia, Verite Closed and since I was on the dealers time, I left them all (but 1) behind inside of 10 minutes for more promising items such as HEKse, Susvara, E2, etc.
Fostex bass was annoying and false. Verite also bassey and colored. LCD lacks low level detail and tone. Stellia was very good, best closed back I've heard,
We've had wildly-different experiences with our headphones, then. I tend to shy away from highly-resolving, ultra-critical headphones, such as the SR-009S, the Susvara, the HD 800 S, et al. On the flipside, I love colored headphones that prize musicality over neutrality and/or clarity.
Good question, I would never use closed back headphones if I didn’t have to.
Sound reflections tend to always cause more problems than they can ever help.
We've had wildly-different experiences with our headphones, then. I tend to shy away from highly-resolving, ultra-critical headphones, such as the SR-009S, the Susvara, the HD 800 S, et al. On the flipside, I love colored headphones that prize musicality over neutrality and/or clarity.
I can't live with the 800S either. I much prefer the Voce to the 007/009. The Susvara exposes equipment. Most DAC's sound brutal. I do enjoy my Gumby on it however.
I think I'm in the middle actually. HE-500 (a bit of EQ to cut ringing freq makes it pretty calm), HD-600 w/ BHOC amp (liquid), HEX v2 (mellow highs) - only my HE-6v1 is highly critical but with an EQ bite out of the ringing frequencies (4.3k and 8.6k) it's tamed down.
I do like the Stellia - although it's a bit expensive. I think the E2 is a better deal. The shiniest can I like is probably the HEK v2 but it needs tame equipment to fly.
Good question, I would never use closed back headphones if I didn’t have to.
Sound reflections tend to always cause more problems than they can ever help.
With a set of speakers in a good acoustics room delayed signals form our perceptions of depth and space. In a headphone like the HE-6/500 the stators get in the way and cause all sorts of early reflections and cancellations. Hence the fuzzor mod, which clarifies their sound in an astounding way. There is no real way to evenly absorb/distribute returning signals in a closed headphone, thus you'll end up with a more uneven output than in the open air. These days people are very much over doing deep bass, those are easy to ID and reject or accept based on what you like. Still not accurate.
From the mid 1970s till the mid 2000s, I never gave second thought to improvement of sound due to new headphones. I mean, yes I got a couple pair a headphones but I just used them. But I didn’t question the sound that much. Funny too as I was involved with home recording studios and a record collector?
Finally in 1998 I purchased a pair of Sony CD870 headphones. They were closed back, but actually I never gave it a thought of open or closed? But they were closed and I really liked the sound. Then around 2007 I found Head-Fi while researching the k701 headphones. I thought “Wow, these folks are really into headphones.” I purchased the k701 (open backs). I tried to make them work, but they were too bass shy? Still they were interesting and lead me to enjoy a new sound signature.
Later I found the new sound signature (an alternative) in IEMs. But no matter what closed backs always sounded better? The Denon AH-D7000 headphones are amazing. Also the Sony MDR-Z1R seem to work.
The main thing is if you begin to experiment with closed backs you need to give yourself time to adjust. If open-back is all you have ever heard it takes a while to understand what’s going on. Literally what seems wrong at first will start to sound natural. This phenomenon is one of the most profoundly misunderstood and perplexing part of Head-Fi. Even the larger group of listeners which prefer closed backs will need a day or two with a new model.
This phenomenon is the main reason why “in-store” demos don’t work. There is also special attention to the lower midrange and bass (due to amp power/source) which means it may need adjusting. What I’m saying is if you take the majority of audiophile headphones and plug them into a weak source/amp.........the open backs will often sound superior.
So that leads us to whole systems. Whole systems are responsible for the sound. But most important, whole systems will take the lower midrange fog that is present in closed backs and clean it up.....at times. So it’s critical that the power of the amp and closed back are matched. Even the source (computer or DAP is important in this regard) More power will also tighten up and speed up the bass response.
Where you end up is a question of personal taste, but generally open back headphones will not show the issue with “bass fog” as much as closed. Finally the route to success is often debated. Meaning some users will take the closed backs apart and use dampening material to get a faster bass. Also the “bass fog” can be cleared up with this style of modification. Still take the same closed back headphone and leave it stock, but get it a more powerful amp and the same “fixs” occur.
So this is where the damping factor of the amp comes into play. Often people just take a closed back and plug it into any amp and feel that it.........that it’s the headphone’s fault for having a bad lower midrange. This single factor has been responsible for many to view closed backs as inferior. I’m not saying cup resonated sounds don’t happen cause obviously they do. But you would be surprised getting the sound that closed backs do when everything is optimal and your used to the sound.
Thus, Dampening a physical phenomenon and Damping and electronic phenomenon take place. In a way they are the same in sound quality! Many don’t realize this but both Damping and Dampening are also responsible for imaging. It’s mostly the headphone but the amp and the headphone create the perceived amount of imaging!
The interesting part is after a more powerful amp is used (often) lower volume gets used. Also the bass may only be 1dB more but due to the detail.............will seem like much much more. This phenomenon is a regular thing........to the point that more detailed bass always sounds like more bass.
To summarize, Dampening and Damping can have similar effects. Also damping is controlled by amp power, and can be one of the main reasons why people don’t like well-done closed-back designs.... if it’s not enough, even though listening volume is adequate.
I'll answer this. The k371's bass region is something special. Great layering and separation between sub-bass, midbass, and mids. Just the right enough punch, crunch, and rumble, not over the top, but just right. Budget headphones like this have made me realize how pathetic some of these TOTL headphones are in the lower regions. Most open back headphone I've tried fail to get this basic frequency range right.
The downside of the k371 is that it feels cheap and flimsy. The plastics are good, but the fit is loose and sloppy. If AKG packages the tech and tonal characteristics in a higher end package I'll be all over it.
Why are super expensive closed back headphones created? I ask because, isn't it true that open is always going to be the superior design for raw sound quality?
Because as music evolve, that includes the genres, so does headphones and anything in between. Now when we talk about super expensive types... it's more of the question of "why not?" Same with speakers, your watch, shoes, etc. when there is a market for it.
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