[cn11]

This thread is focused on soundstage because the OP asked that question.

 

[soozieq]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Am I oversimplifying? Does the soundstage now render all of those other critical listening factors (detail, PRAT, etc.) as secondary?

Soundstage is just one of the positive factors of the IE8, along with a beautiful midrange and some terrific bass presence. I don't believe anyone here would pay this kind of silly money simply for soundstage if every other aspect was poor. But it's not. You only have to read the numerous positive reviews to see how much people like them. Duncan's initial review was very informative and detailed, I even read it again recently, and agree with just about everything he said, especially about the midrange, it's just to die for!

 

[zardos]

IE8's soundstage does not nearly sound like coming from an IEM. It's a very pleasing experience.

 

[average_joe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cn11 /img/forum/go_quote.gif To me the W3 and IE8 soundstages are very different. First thing about the IE8 that hits you is the sheer expansiveness and distance that the soundstage covers. The W3 by comparison has a somewhat more narrowed in soundstage, but the instruments are more resolved with where they sit in space. There's more detail within the soundstage (if that makes any sense). That's not to say that the IE8 has poor instrument resolution... far from it. Overall I much prefer the IE8's soundstage because what it gives is the feeling that you are listening to big speakers. You are able to just enjoy the music much more easily. The W3's seem to be more for really getting into analyzing instrument separation and placement. That's not what enjoying music is about to me.

I agree, but I compared the IE8 to the Phonak Audeo PFE. The PFE with the grey filters didn't have as wide a soundstage, but had slightly better instrument resolution. And I got rid of my PFEs.

 

[tstarn06]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cn11 /img/forum/go_quote.gif This thread is focused on soundstage because the OP asked that question.

Thanks. I was just trying to expand the soundstage discussion. I realize the OP asked which IEMs had the best soundstage. It led me to another, related question. Just don't remember sound stage being discussed as much in previous IEM threads. But now that the IE8 has arrived, it seems to have moved center stage, so to speak.

 

[tstarn06]

Quote:

Originally Posted by soozieq /img/forum/go_quote.gif Soundstage is just one of the positive factors of the IE8, along with a beautiful midrange and some terrific bass presence. I don't believe anyone here would pay this kind of silly money simply for soundstage if every other aspect was poor. But it's not. You only have to read the numerous positive reviews to see how much people like them. Duncan's initial review was very informative and detailed, I even read it again recently, and agree with just about everything he said, especially about the midrange, it's just to die for!

I'll have to go back and read it again. I didn't mean every other aspect was poor, as poor and secondary don't necessarily mean the same thing. I just meant, is soundstage the most important factor in a successful, top tier IEM? Is it personal preference? Can an IEM be great if soundstage is one of its weak points? Just a thought.

 

[tstarn06]

Quote:

Originally Posted by average_joe /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree, but I compared the IE8 to the Phonak Audeo PFE. The PFE with the grey filters didn't have as wide a soundstage, but had slightly better instrument resolution. And I got rid of my PFEs.

So in your case, you chose sound stage over instrument resolution? Is that fair?

 

[Bolardito]

Quote:

Originally Posted by average_joe /img/forum/go_quote.gif I disagree with grouping the IE8 with all IEMs that sound closed in without hearing. They are truly different than other IEMs I have heard, and other IE8 owners (with much more IEM experience than I) feel the same way. I perceive the IE8 may just have a better soundstage than the UE11

UE11= huge soundstage, 3D like sound presentation, excellent detail and awesome instrument separation. Is like having the best of all IEM's (W3, IE8 and SE530) condenscend in a single IEM. With the UE11 you don't sacrifice anything (well except a thousand bucks!). They really sound like full size phones.

 

[soozieq]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Can an IEM be great if soundstage is one of its weak points? Just a thought.

I know I can't enjoy a narrow soundstage, no matter how great the detail is. I just find it very tiring and unenjoyable. As for instrument resolution over soundstage, I guess it's simply down to personal preference. I was quite happy to give up the W3's last ounce of detail for the big IE8 soundstage, bass and midrange. But that doesn't mean the IE8 has no detail, it does. The W3 will suit some people's listening preferences better than the IE8 - and likewise, the other way round. What people will end up choosing is what sounds more enjoyable to their own ears overall, regardless of anything else.

Anyway, aren't you still happy with the Phonak? Is it just curiosity you're feeling about the IE8, or is there something lacking in your current set up that you think the IE8 might fill? Just asking, because I thought you were really set with the Phonak (above the W3!!)

 

[kaushama]

I own both (IE8/W3) and continue to enjoy both for different reasons. But when it comes to sound-stage IE8 wins by a fair distance.

 

[zardos]

A good soundstage is an important factor to achieve a natural and realistic hearing experience. But if I had to decide between "good soundstage but poor resolution" and "good resolution but poor soundstage" I clearly would choose the good resolution. Thankfully with IE8 I have another option to choose from. That is "magically soundstage with high resolution".

 

[vedye]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 /img/forum/go_quote.gif So in your case, you chose sound stage over instrument resolution? Is that fair?

Does that question has to be answered? He might just like it that way. I think it's a personal preference.
(I just found it kinda interesting that you are so concentrating on this "soundstage over the other aspects" issue.

)

 

[igotyofire]

someone explain to me what is soundstage.....the overall sound together?

 

[antonyfirst]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tstarn06 Just wondered. Sort of a segue. How does soundstage rank as a critical listening factor for in-ear phones? Anything less than number one?

To me, with IEMs it is:

1-frequency balance and "rightness"
2-soundstage
3-extention (deep bass, decent treble extention)
4-speed/detail retrieval (but without any spikes)

Comfort is not ranked but needs to be "good enough", so flexible cable, not too many microphonics, and especially the ability to reach the seal.

The Apuresound Etys go closest as possible to my liking, but fail at soundstage. Still they are the less flawed portable headphones I have owned.

 

[tstarn06]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vedye /img/forum/go_quote.gif Does that question has to be answered? He might just like it that way. I think it's a personal preference. (I just found it kinda interesting that you are so concentrating on this "soundstage over the other aspects" issue. )

Well, I've been reading posts about IEMs for over two years, and the sound stage factor, while important, seems to have come to the forefront with the release of the IE8s. Seems they have set a new standard, in fact, and now I wonder if that standard, since it has not been achieved before in a universal, will change the buying dynamics for top tier phones. Make sense?

No one had this option before, apparently. At least not based on the reviews of the IE8 vs. TF10, W3 and SE530.

That's why I am interested, and brought it out. After all, no one who owns and loves the IE8 ever had this experience before, right? They didn't know what they were missing (at least in an in-ear phone). And reading many posts by those same olks, I know many of them have owned the other top tier IEMs in the past.

My only question is, with the IE8s now out, is sound stage the true holy grail of universal in-ear phones? I say it is, because why else would all these folks be so enraptured with the Senns? It does make one want to hear them, to see what all the fuss is about, since they also deliver very good mids, highs, etc.

I do still really like the PFEs and W3s, very much. But it does make me curious to hear how much sound stage can impact listening via an in-ear phone.