[nwavguy]

Quote:

Well even though I've supported the "subjective perspective" here on this thread I feel inclined to post some objective information regarding cowon.Unlike any ipod that exists,my cowon plays FLAC and APE files.Whether these formats sound better than mp3 or the apple formats is irrelevent to ME.This is because my music collection is mostly is FLAC and APE.

That's partly true. Older iPods can run Rockbox which supports FLAC and APE. And the Sansa Clip+, out of the box, supports FLAC with the factory firmware (and also has significantly better low frequency performance than the Cowon I tested). The Sansa also runs Rockbox so can support APE--as can any of the other several dozen players that run Rockbox.
 
Finally, for what it's worth, I ripped a bunch of APE CD's back before FLAC became popular and eventually found a way to transcode them all in one big batch, loss free with tags intact, to FLAC. That's the great thing about lossless compression--you can covert it to other formats with no loss. APE has been largely left behind these days. You're likely to encounter less and less support for APE going forward although projects like Rockbox offer some hope.

 

[drez]

so am i right in assuming that the clip+ is the best neutral player out at the moment?

 

[High_Q]

I like my P3, it sounds wonderful.  From my listening experience, Nook Color and Optimus v phone both have lousy frequency response.  So I am a believer in portable source effecting sound output of quality headphones.  I also think since freq response of players and phones vary, so some portable player match up better with some phones, and preference is dependent on the listener and what frequency response, listener prefers.

 

[nwavguy]

Quote:

so am i right in assuming that the clip+ is the best neutral player out at the moment?

 
It certainly is for the price! My iPod Touch 3G outperforms the Clip+ in most areas but only by a slim margin and it also was 5 times the price and won't hang from a shirtsleeve. And the Clip+ has better extreme low frequency performance (although I doubt the difference would be audible). I'd like to, someday, test the current generation 4G touch, as well as the current Nano and Shuffle. Apple's engineers are obviously capable of designing an impressive audio signal path when they want to (I was kind of surprised how good the 3G is to be honest--given all the people who claim Cowon, Sansa and HiFiMan are so much better).
 
Also, I haven't tested one yet, but there's some reasonable evidence the Sansa Fuze (not the new Fuze+) has very similar performance to the Clip+ if you'd like a bigger color display, better battery life, etc. You can also run Rockbox on either of them which has some really cool features like a true parametric EQ, highly configurable headphone crossfeed processing, and much more. And the players end up being "dual boot" so you can just hold down a button when you turn it on and still run the original Sansa firmware if you want.
 
I'm going to be posting the Clip+ review on my blog in the next day or two with more players to follow. I'll also be posting some more info regarding my thoughts about Rockbox.
 
 
 

 

[nwavguy]

Quote:

I like my P3, it sounds wonderful.  From my listening experience, Nook Color and Optimus prime phone both have lousy frequency response.  So I am a believer in portable source effecting sound output of quality headphones.  I also think since freq response of players and phones vary, so some portable player match up better with some phones, and preference is dependent on the listener and what frequency response, listener prefers.

I have an LG Optimus One family phone and the frequency response isn't awful but it has a fairly high output impedance, limited output level and relatively high distortion. I suspect it complies with the new EU hearing protection laws even though it's sold in North America. That would explain the wimpy output power. But yeah, it's audibly inferior to say the Sansa Clip+. No question.

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

so am i right in assuming that the clip+ is the best neutral player out at the moment?

Only for the price.  I think people look at this player from the wrong perspective.  They read reviews and impressions and think it's the best SQ DAP available.  That is not what the player is about.  It's about having a player that does so little wrong at the size and price while its competitors often commit more audible errors w/ similar packages in similar price brackets.  The other important feature is versatility in employing Rockbox.  Don't buy it thinking it's the final destination of portable audio nirvana.  I made that mistake when I first joined.  5 DAPs later...... 

 

[drez]

@anaxilus interesting thanks for clearing that up I certainly don't want to go backwards from my hm601, just curious what else is out there.  How is the hippo gumstick?

 

[b0ck3n]

Reading this thread was a wake-up call for me. It's very easy for a gullible moron like myself to be swayed by the beautiful formulations with which people on this forum describe their latest cable purchase. I wouldn't want to get in the way of someone who wants to believe that it makes a difference, but it certainly doesn't do any favors to those of us with limited funds and experience.

Fortunately most 'serious' reviewers around here are very clear about the fact that their impressions are highly subjective and shouldn't be interpreted as scientific facts.

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

@anaxilus interesting thanks for clearing that up I certainly don't want to go backwards from my hm601, just curious what else is out there.  How is the hippo gumstick?

It's pretty good.  That's my ultra-portable DAP of choice when I need to be light on my feet.  Otherwise I would use my Clip+ w/ my easier to drive IEMs.  I tend to prefer the extra body the power of the Gumstick delivers w/ most of my IEMs.  If one were more into analytic type of signatures and aren't bothered by a slightly thinner sound the Clip+ would be the way to go IMO.  The Clip has Rockbox and the gumstick has more of those 'quirks' you get in niche producst like the Sflo2 and Hifiman products if that matters to you.