What happened to Grado's reputation?
Feb 28, 2011 at 12:37 AM Post #241 of 565
No question, Bila - the SR60/MS1 is an accomplishment. Maybe we just started to expect too much of cans that cost 2x, 3x and 15x as much .....
 
I've said it before, but I still dont know of a $300 pair of cans that is literally 10 times as good as KSC-75, at least to my ears. Diminishing returns are a serious b*tch.
 
Feb 28, 2011 at 12:41 AM Post #242 of 565
The mids are so recessed that I don't think that makes it a complicated situation, at least in the case of GS1000i and PS1000. Yes the headphones are detailed. The mids may be flat, but you're going to have to bare with that humongous treble and mid bass peak. When I heard the GS1000i, I literally felt I was only listening to treble and mid bass. Flat but inaudible mids doesn't make for good mids.
 
However, I thought the SR60 was the only good sounding Grado.
 
Feb 28, 2011 at 12:57 AM Post #243 of 565
What are your thoughts on the AD900 ? I alternate between those and various Grado cans without my head exploding, but then I'm also the kind of weirdo that will eat chocolate and vanilla ice-cream. 
 
Feb 28, 2011 at 3:15 AM Post #244 of 565


Quote:
I agree totally! The midrange on HP1000 and SR200 are amazing even compared to modern headphones (I tried). 
SR200 are great headphones. It is a shame that they are now even harder to find than HP1000 (much harder it seems). Someone is selling a pair for $1300 on ebay rightnow. That is too much but you get the idea about how rare they are.

My pair was hand selected from a whole box of them.  The best sounding of the batch.
 
 
Feb 28, 2011 at 3:29 AM Post #245 of 565
Earlier someone talked about IEMs and looks - the funny thing is that the Grado IEM's don't look distinctive whatsoever.  If they actually put tiny RS1-looking or GS1000-looking wood enclosures (even if it served no actual audio purpose) on the exterior tips, they probably would do a lot better business with them.  If you are marketing to a mass market (which you would need to be if you aren't going to actually engineer something exceptional), then looks are extremely important.
 
Feb 28, 2011 at 5:34 AM Post #246 of 565


Quote:
What are your thoughts on the AD900 ? I alternate between those and various Grado cans without my head exploding, but then I'm also the kind of weirdo that will eat chocolate and vanilla ice-cream. 



I prefer my Ad900 in every aspect over the 225i I used. I even enjoyed the Sr80i over the 225i, then again I think it may just be that I hate the pads that come with the 225i, I feel they really take away from the "Grado sound."
 
Feb 28, 2011 at 10:38 AM Post #247 of 565


Quote:
I think this debate is a little like the question, "Why did you kill your wife?"  There's this big assumption that Grado's reputation has taken some huge beating.  I don't see it.  The same people who've always loved Grados still love them.  The same people who always hated them still hate them.  There are people who come along and express a curiosity about Grados, but Grado has always been a niche, boutique little headphone company.  I don't want to see the day when Grados are sold in Best Buy and Walmart.  Grado's basic, minimalist, concept of a driver and a shell is brilliant and wonderful.  When it tries to sell big differences between plastic Grados, it may sound a little earnest - like a carnival barker guessing your weight - but that's the audio world in general.  
 
A number of major brands had a civil war over their flagship can.  Sennheiser had a rift between HD600 and HD650 fans.  beyerdynamics had a rift between DT880 and DT990 fans.  Grado had their own tempest in a teapot over the RS1 and the GS1000.  In each case, the company solved its own problem by coming up with an "all new headphone" that essentially found a way to please both camps.  The HD800 unified the Sennheiser folks.  The T1 ended some brawls at beyerdynamics.  For a time, the PS1000 pacified the infighting over whether the GS1000 was the rightful successor to the RS1, a fight brought on by Grado's attempt to respond to criticisms about comfort, soundstage and bass.  To his credit, John Grado listened and designed a headphone to satisfy those criticisms.  The GS1000 was the most comfortable Grado ever; it had the largest soundstage; and it had the thumpiest bass of them all.  The RS1 lovers, whose "flagship cans" stood to lose their special place, found fault with the new "refined" Grado.  Instead of scrapping the GS1000, Grado pressed forward with the PS1000, which brought back the midrange, reduced the thump to more reasonable levels, and created - in essence - a fusion of the RS1 and the GS1000.
 
Now, let's look at what happened.  Sennheiser came out with the HD800, creating a huge hype cloud.  As the HD800 really was and is an awesome headphone, the hype cloud had legitimacy and it lingered for quite some time.  Of course, Sennheiser also had problems keeping up with orders as well as with QC issues stemming from the rush to ship so many units so quickly.  Grado release the PS1000 a season later.  It enjoyed its hype cloud as well, but it created a very different rift.  Where the GS1000 was eventually hated for being too un-Grado, the PS1000 would go on to be hated - largely by people who never owned it - for being too expensive.  The PS1000 was bought up by all the trust-fund babies, who made a big show of their membership in this PS1000 club, which created lots of anger based on class warfare.
 
A fair amount of that died down when Grado threw 'em a bone: the HF2.  Ironically, the HF2 is so truly a "baby PS1000" that if you swapped the cushions and vented the drivers, you'd have a tough time telling these headphones apart.  Anybody with a modicum of brains could have modded the HF2 and gotten a PS1000 - but almost nobody did.  Guess why?  Because they wanted to hold onto them and resell them as collectors' items.  Why bridge the gap between your $500 HF2 and the $1,700 PS1000 when you can leave it in the box, wait a few months, and make a couple of hundred dollars?
 
There must be a special hall in Hell for flippers.
 
I think the Grado-hating poseurs are as obnoxious as the Bambis who've never owned any headphone except their SR125.  A pox on both their houses.  
 
Grado had its PS1000 moment - partly screwed by setting the price of the headphone too high.  Then beyerdynamic came out with the T1 and the hype cloud shifted.
 
Then the orthodynamics wave hit the beach and drenched everybody else.  People are still talking about the LCD2 - and probably will be until next year, when something else gets the tongues wagging.  In a place like Headfi, where nerds and materialists come together, it should come as little shock when mean-girl catty talk that would normally be applied to high-school girls like Carrie is aimed at one another's brands and favorite headphones.  People who save up all their acid so they can run down somebody else's headphones are probably the same people who, as kids, ran around telling the other kids that Santa wasn't real.
 
We, of course, know that Santa is real.  He lives in Brooklyn.  He makes the coolest headphones on the planet.  We also know that Rudolph was gay, which is why the reindeers shunned him till he got a lawyer and fixed their wagon.  


Just wanted to copy this post again. Lot of truth here.
 
Feb 28, 2011 at 1:49 PM Post #248 of 565
Bilavideo, you've made some excellent points in your posts here, though I've never owned or even had a chance to listen to one, I can see why they've been so popular over the years.  I would compare Grado to Porsche(yeah not the greatest analogy) in that Porsche produces its cars for that niche segment of the automotive market.  They've been successful strictly adhearing to one basic formula: rear monted boxer six cylinder engine, and comitment to the best driving dynamics possible while offering the best in luxury refinement.  The 911 Carrera and its variants have been Porsche's bread butter over the years and is what one thinks of when they hear the name Porsche.  Sure, you can get similar performance from a less expensive vehicle, but it's not still a Porsche.  Only one car has that unique style and driving dynamics that have been refined over the last 60 plus years.  Sure Porsche has diversified its line up a bit, but there is only one 911.  My basic point is, that Grados have a unique style, flair and sound signature that really makes them Grados.  Hmm, trying to sum my post here but can't seem to get my thoughts together.  I woke up a bit late today:p  So I'll leave you guys with this-
 
 
 
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Ah, the images of classic beauty.  Totally comparable right?
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Feb 28, 2011 at 2:14 PM Post #249 of 565
Just an FYI...  What really pulled Porsche's bacon out of the fire was the Cayenne.  It saved the company and was/is a run away success.  Having owned a Cayenne Turbo for over two years, I can say there is no higher state of the art and performance available in an SUV at any price.  They delivered.  That's what Grado has to do.  Deliver state of the art performance again.
 
Feb 28, 2011 at 3:00 PM Post #250 of 565


Quote:
Anybody with a modicum of brains could have modded the HF2 and gotten a PS1000 - but almost nobody did.  
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OK, I'll bite. How do you get inside the HF-2?
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Feb 28, 2011 at 3:33 PM Post #251 of 565


Quote:
Just an FYI...  What really pulled Porsche's bacon out of the fire was the Cayenne.  It saved the company and was/is a run away success.  Having owned a Cayenne Turbo for over two years, I can say there is no higher state of the art and performance available in an SUV at any price.  They delivered.  That's what Grado has to do.  Deliver state of the art performance again.



Ehhh... No.  Yeah, the Cayenne was a huge success and sold/sells extremely well, but it didn't exactly save the company:
http://www.autointell.com/sports_cars/porsche/business-figures/porsche-key-facts-1994-2005.xls
 
It may have given them enough extra capital to start buying more VW shares - and now the vast majority of Porsche's profits come from its huge investment in VW among other things....
 
Feb 28, 2011 at 3:36 PM Post #252 of 565
I doubt any other brand could bring me the same enjoyment with rock as grado. I'm listening to my 325i in total bliss at the moment. The build quality isn't any different from my 125's I purchased in 2000.
 
Feb 28, 2011 at 3:40 PM Post #253 of 565


Quote:
Just an FYI...  What really pulled Porsche's bacon out of the fire was the Cayenne.  It saved the company and was/is a run away success.  Having owned a Cayenne Turbo for over two years, I can say there is no higher state of the art and performance available in an SUV at any price.  They delivered.  That's what Grado has to do.  Deliver state of the art performance again.



Haha, that is very true.  I remember when Porsche first announced that they were making an SUV, it caused quite a stir in the automotive community.  Porsche purists condemmed it, while automotive analysts were a bit skeptical.  But, like you said it became a huge success and is a big part of what allows Porsche to stay profitable and independant, as many of the high-end auto makers are now under ownership of some kind. 
 
Feb 28, 2011 at 4:01 PM Post #254 of 565
OK, stop the Porsche stuff, it has zero relevance. I like the Grado sound, I've owned the SR-80, 325i and the GS-1000, I still own the HF-1, HF- 2, and the RS-1. I also own the D7000 and the K1000. The RS-1 is my "go to" phone.  Some Head-fiers don't like the Grado sound, some think it's OK and others believe it's the best. Go figure.....it's no different than Sennhieser, Beyer, AKG, Ultrasone,,,etc. Grado hasn't blown their reputation, They are what they are, there's just a few nay-sayers who need to say something about Grado because they aren't what they expected. Get over it, sell them and buy something else.
 
Feb 28, 2011 at 4:02 PM Post #255 of 565
Actually Porsche is now owned by VW first off. Secondly Porsche never remained stale it made huge changes throughout the years, most notably in the transmission department. There's plenty more I could go on about, but a comparison of Porsche and Grado is a terrible comparison.
 

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