[darknessproz]

I found this AKG K701 advertised as balanced with 4pin xlr. What does it mean? What advantages does it offer over a standard K701?

 

[ktsai1283]

http://www.headphone.com/learning-center/balanced-drive-faq.php
 
http://www.headphone.com/learning-center/balanced-drive-article-series.php

 

[Satellite_6]

I always wondered what this was. . . does this make the two channels identical? Or is it still stereo. . .

 

[kiertijai]

I also don't understand about this,  is the 4 pinXLR with only one termination can be balanced or it needs 2 x 3pin XLR to be balanced?
Do they have to do the recable differently the single end one if you have only one 4 pin XLR?   Or the 4 pin XLR(one) behave just like
a normal 1/4" TRS jack?  Will the SQ be much different that the 1/4" jack or 2 x 3pin XLR.   And if our amplifier, DAC or Source is not
balanced, how much the balanced headphone (2x3pin XLr) have SQ difference over the unbalanced one?
thanks,

 

[MrSlim]

Someone decided at some point that Balanced headphones had to have to completely physically separate connectors(and possibly separate wires), but in actual fact doing it with a 4 conductor XLR is perfectly fine.  Unfortunately most commercial balanced headphone amps now come with dual 3 pin XLR's vs a single 4 Pin.  A balanced connection only needs 4 wires to work.  A 4 pin XLR is a much cleaner solution.
 
The 4 pin XLR is still Balanced, so, in theory, a balanced setup using them should have better sound quality than an "unbalanced"  system with 1/4 TRS jacks.
I say in theory, because the "law of diminishing returns" is coming into play with balanced devices.. I have read some things about the Beta 22 for example, that a 3 channel (active ground) setup (still using a standard TRS unbalanced connector) is a clear step up from a 2 channel unit of the same design, but the difference between a 3 channel and a 4 channel fully balanced starts to become much harder to identify.
 
The "this wire is better than that wire" argument starts to rear it's ugly head too..
 
If your DAC and amp are unbalanced, then the headphones are not really "balanced". They are wired for a balanced connection, but if they are connected to an unbalanced source, they are still unbalanced.. All you have done is provided a separate ground wire to each speaker driver. You may hear some improvement (emphasis on "may") but not nearly as much as you would hear in a fully balanced setup

 

[MrSlim]

Quote:

I always wondered what this was. . . does this make the two channels identical? Or is it still stereo. . .

It's still stereo. The main difference between unbalanced and balanced is this:
 
Unbalanced (from a general audio point of view, not just headphones) :  each channel has 2 wires, one hot, and one return.
(headphones share the return, reducing the number of wires)
Balanced : each channel has two hot wires, driven in opposite directions (R+ and R- and L+ and L-)
 
The main advantage of Balanced signal transmission is the reduced sensitivity to external electrical noise that can degrade sound quality. 

 

[HiFlight]

With a balanced amp driving a balanced set of headphones, not sharing a common ground seems to noticeably improve the accuracy of the soundstage and imaging.  With both + and - leads driven in each channel, you will have twice the voltage swing in the output to your balanced phones, thereby increasing the headroom as well as the imaging and soundstage. 
 
All my headphones that I have re-terminated for balanced operation have demonstrated the above improvements.  The better the quality of the music and headphones, the more noticeable is the improvement.
 
Balancing one's headphones is not a cure for poor sound originating upstream in your audio chain!

 

[Satellite_6]

Cool stuff. . . would like to try one day.

 

[kiertijai]

thanks,
   For explaining this,   I have a balanced headphone amp which is portable (the protector ) and I have another westone w3 which need to be
recable and I would like it to be done in the balanced 4pin mini XLR mode , how can I tell him to do that?  Please draw the diagram for me
or elaborate more so I can tell him exactly what to do to my Westone W3,.   However my input which is from RWA imod is not balanced,
will that make the system better with only the amplifier and the headphone cable as balanced?  by how much?   BTW do you know any
portable player that will have the balanced output with DAC : the Cypherlabs algorhythm is a streamer + Dac but we need another ipod to
do that so it's not very portable because the cypherlabs is quite big as well as the SR71B which will have mini 4 pin XLR input but I don't
think it is in production yet.

 

[liamhidfv5]

http://www.headphone.com/learning-center/balanced-drive-faq.php
 
http://www.headphone.com/learning-center/balanced-drive-article-series.php

Is the problem with the my network here? Is there something wrong with the link? It cannot be opened.

 

[dauder2]

Quote:

It's still stereo. The main difference between unbalanced and balanced is this:
 
Unbalanced (from a general audio point of view, not just headphones) :  each channel has 2 wires, one hot, and one return.
(headphones share the return, reducing the number of wires)
Balanced : each channel has two hot wires, driven in opposite directions (R+ and R- and L+ and L-)
 
The main advantage of Balanced signal transmission is the reduced sensitivity to external electrical noise that can degrade sound quality. 

 
It is quite clear to me that, a balanced headphones uses two "hot" wires for each channel, and that most balanced headphones uses dual 3-pin XLR plugs, and that the third pin is normally used for the shield in the cable.
 
So i have, two questions:
 
1. How is the cables wired, in a headphone with single cord?(cord only coming out of one ear-cup) 
2. What is the actual use for the two hot wires? I know it have been explained before in this thread - in the comment quoted - but i dont understand fully.
 
Thanks!

 

[lamode]

Balanced cables make sense if you are recording an event with long cables from the microphones to the mixing desk. You don't want interference picked up by the long stretch of cable being added to the small microphone signal. But in a headphone, it's overkill. It's a solution for a problem which doesn't exist. When was the last time you picked up audible electrical interference on your headphone cable?
 
On the other hand, separating the ground lines for both channels makes sense and means just using 4 wires instead of 3 in the headphone cable. That does make some sense given how little the price difference is, and prevents a little crosstalk. But this is not the same as a proper balanced setup with inverted signals coming from a balanced amp.
 
p.s. some people like to use independent cables to each driver in a multi-driver speaker, eliminating the shared length of cable between the amplifier and the crossover. This is the same principle as using independent ground lines in headphones.

 

[lamode]

1. How is the cables wired, in a headphone with single cord?(cord only coming out of one ear-cup) 
2. What is the actual use for the two hot wires? I know it have been explained before in this thread - in the comment quoted - but i dont understand fully.
 
Thanks!

 
1. the single cord makes no difference whatsoever. The cable just continues to the second transducer in the overhead part of the headphone.
 
2. The two hot wires carry the same signal but with opposite polarity. In other word, when one cable carries 1V, the other carries -1V. The difference between the lines is 2V. If there is some interference adding 0.1V to both lines in the cable, then you will have 1.1V and -0.9V in the two lines. The difference is still 2V, so the signal is preserved.

 

[interpolate]

Interesting read however well beyond my capabilities. I notice AKG now make a 4-pin mini-XLR to XLR  cable for broadcast equipment.I use balanced phono to neutrik/XLR connections in my monitor setup. Other than the crosstalk reduction and a lower sensitivity before noise is audible, what are the main advantages of balanced connections in a headphone like this. Actually I own the AKG K702 in question in this thread, so this is what sparked my interest.

 

[Spaceresearcher]

So please do correct me if I am mistaken, but if your not getting interference with a standard 3 cable system and have a decent cable with decent shared ground, then you will notice no difference at all?
 
I've been looking into this lately and so far it looks like nothing more than a marketing gimmick and a waste of copper.  Some people swear it makes a difference.  My ears didn't notice one iota of difference.
 
As for 'interference' on modern day headphones..... 'SAY WA'?????