[SpeakerBox]

 

[Mike-WI]

Can someone briefly describe/summarize what this transport is about?

Last pages habe been primarily about analog Playback and Coffee brewing

Might be good for a separate thread on topic.
Here are a few notes I have collected over time...


2020 June 3
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wha...n-robert-hunter.784471/page-830#post-15653266
Work on transport continues. The transport is still in alpha stage, where it will remain until I have confidence in it USB driving a majority of the DACs out in the wild. Sounds amazing, though. The reason is that there are far more USB input chips (DAC side) in the wild than USB output chips which drive the Unison USB input section already in Schiit production. I have just built a gizmo which can test DACs to see if they are compatible. I shall see how many DACs I can find and test. More shall be revealed.


MM

2020 May 4
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-3916#post-15592174

Hey guys,

Ask Mike for more details on the transport, but I think I'm safe in sharing that there's no BWD in it. Unison USB has surpassed that, no need for BWD anymore.

Don't expect the transport to be super-cheap, if that's what you're looking for, though we're not talking car-like prices (like other transports that use some of our mechanicals cost.)

Do expect it to be a game-changer in what you can expect from a transport.

And do expect it this year.

That's all for now. Best to bug Mike for more, though I wanted to squash some speculation before some very very very old ideas are taken as gospel.

Sorry to be scarce, we're very busy right now. I finished up the Utah stuff last week, and next week we may even have a new product for you. Lots of the stuff we've been doing around here have been ensuring we can continue to operate seamlessly in our new crisis culture (not just sales, but support and service as well). Not only have we done that, we are moving ahead on new products, a couple of which will be announced soon.

All the best,
Jason
...

valiant66 said:
I just hope it comes in a Bifrost-width case....

Not a chance, it won't fit.

2019 Jan 5 - Baldr (Mike Moffat)
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wha...n-robert-hunter.784471/page-649#post-14700297

On Jason’s thread, I have been reading a steadily growing volume of often speculative posts re our upcoming transport. Please allow me to clear the air regarding the true current state of said product’s goals and development. As a preliminary, I have nothing bad to say with respect to any other transport makers. For someone such as Cambridge to say in business four or so times longer than we have says nothing quite as much as they certainly must be doing a lot of things right. More power to them.

The proposed Schiit transport will be the fourth or fifth transport I have been involved with over the last thirty or so years. It will be absolutely compatible with all future Schiit digital products. Of all things digital, I am certain about the following sentence. Paramount to optimum performance/listening are antiseptically clean clocks. We have many source devices such as ethernet to USB devices, transports, and sundry sother components. Well and good. What few or none consider is the fact that by far the most important location for clean clocks and data is right at the DAC chip itself – the ass end of the converter. (Destination clocks) The farther the clean clock goes back in the reproduction toward the source, the less it matters. Clean clocks still matter at the source, but all to frequently rapidly approach triviality. Destination clocks rule.

So at some point in our Schiit, newer products and upgrades for our higher end products will feature the best, rock solid clocks at our DACs where they kick the most ass. What does this have to do with a transport? Well, we can use an enhanced BWD connection controlling jitter all the way back to the transport even through an async USB connection as well as BWD.

Huh, USB connection??!!?? Yup, our transport will have a USB out. Such apostasy! Why? Well, I am finally good with USB now being as good as S/PDIF and AES on our new USB receiver. Better, even. Yup, really. This begs a USB out.

So what transport do we use? On our proto, we have a genero interface to try virtually any transport. Well, here is what we found out on differences between transport mechanisms: Using a clock close to the DAC, running it all the way back to a moderately de-jittered and cleaned up transport clocks and data, very little difference exists. To repeat: trivial, mouse nuts, vanishingly little differences. This makes transport mechanism selection point towards product life and reliability, as it should.

With traditional clocking from the source, the clock cleaning becomes much more important. The differences between different transport mechanisms significantly widen.

So, if destination clocks are so good, how come no one uses them?? Well, it requires a perfectly stable async BWD/USB connection back to the source. The key to public acceptance is a compatible system which will mate with ROW source clocked components (ROW – rest of the world.) There is also a phuc ton of engineering to do – A self engineered USB digital audio host and input, and/or a BWD with clock control line interface.

So the transport will include a USB host (audio output), and a BWD with destination clock features, in addition to AES and S/PDIF ROW features. We do have a proto running, that still has a few bugs to fix, mostly in our USB interface. What we have our attention on now is a stubborn bit selection 16/24/32. What a waste of time 32 audio bit is, kinda like a hub cap on a pizza, but people expect it, so we waste our time.

We then pick a transport mech and let Ivana finish with the control software. Sounds easy, huh? After we get our USB interface debugged and our Host (transport out running) we will be almost ready to start the rest of the transport. All efforts are on finishing the last of the USB. Then we will wait until Microsoft gets to the no new development point on W7 and we will be ready to release our new USB. Why? Because we do not have time to write a driver for an OS which will soon be on its way out (probably just when we finish). Another thing we have to get running is the USB with Linux so it will work with Linux powered Ethernet to USB devices on the market for the streamers. The point, there is still a lot to do.

On sounds like ass – it means I cannot get emotionally involved with the music. It seems there was some discussion on Jase’s thread about my true meaning of “sounds like ass”. If I don’t get PTSD listening to Steppenwolf’s Magic Carpet Ride or contemplate promised rewards listening to the end of Mahler’s Eighth, or feel like setting a fire at the end of Die Walkure, it sounds like ass.

On one reason why this Schiit takes so long, AKA brilliance: Jason and I were having a discussion of all good and bad re upgrades in the lab a few months or so ago. The two most popular were clients love them in favor, and clients whine and complain about our speed of delivery against. As this discussion reached an impasse, Alex walked by and tossed over his shoulder a comment: Why don’t you make all of the upgrades user interchangeable? Jason and I quietly started at each other like morons for a very pregnant long pause. At pause’s end he was long gone.

This is the real current state of the transport.

More soon on German Music.

////////////
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wha...n-robert-hunter.784471/page-516#post-14230379

Product candidate number 1 is a CD transport. It has been built as an alpha. It works and sounds fine - I feel content with respect to its performance. It should be a $300 to $500 product. The dependencies of a workable production product are our ability to source a transport assembly in the thousands of units, and our ability to design packing and ship production quantities of fragile items, which we have not yet done. I am convinced that CDs (many/most of which can yet be easily found at a dollar and under) will become popular and enjoy a resurgence of popularity once most realize that streaming is seldom, if ever, the best possible digital source. The original Solti Ring cycle on CD (not the remaster) is by far and away the best sounding. (I know, Bosie, you hate the Solti Ring – the fact remains that is a sonic miracle and one of the two or three best recordings of the last century.) I maintain now is the time to acquire CDs before they suffer the price inflation of California coastal real estate or vinyl records.

2018-May 10
So it has been a bit of time since I have posted as I have been very distracted with the Sol, which now seems to be finally ready to order parts for production. Jason and I keep slowing each other down out of an abundance of caution with this, our first mechanical product. Done with that, at least the Engineering.

Next I will tease (Myself as well as the reader) with a variety of possible products that I am currently trying out. So for the moment allow me to emulate Jason in the sense that the following are products that are either ideas, built as prototypes, either plywood (alpha) or in chassis (beta). All of the caveats apply, which specifically are: They could never happen. They may happen in a very combined or modified form, or they may even be built as they are.

Product candidate number 1 is a CD transport. It has been built as an alpha. It works and sounds fine - I feel content with respect to its performance. It should be a $300 to $500 product. The dependencies of a workable production product are our ability to source a transport assembly in the thousands of units, and our ability to design packing and ship production quantities of fragile items, which we have not yet done. I am convinced that CDs (many/most of which can yet be easily found at a dollar and under) will become popular and enjoy a resurgence of popularity once most realize that streaming is seldom, if ever, the best possible digital source. The original Solti Ring cycle on CD (not the remaster) is by far and away the best sounding. (I know, Bosie, you hate the Solti Ring – the fact remains that is a sonic miracle and one of the two or three best recordings of the last century.) I maintain now is the time to acquire CDs before they suffer the price inflation of California coastal real estate or vinyl records.

The next candidate is a Floorsweep product which is partially built of recycled parts (think, for example, the recycled parts from old Yggy analog board). Now this would not be a current or old Yggy or Gungnir killer at all, but a scaled down product that would punch way above its price point. Much physically smaller, shorter warranty, ugly in a quaint sense. Jason suggested a hammertone finish, which I love. Gibson in the pre-WW2 days made Floorsweep banjos and mandolins, which are hugely expensive collector’s items today. One has been built, but may be integrated further before production. Or not, or may not be built at all – just a notion of how to utilize old parts that we hate to throw away.

Oh yeah, the Gadget. Already built as a digital beta product, in fact a production ready coax to coax product. The problem is how do we interface it? What inputs? USB? Coax? AES? TOS? What outputs? If we put something in production do people really want another box in the chain? Really? Probably won’t be built for that reason. Leads to the next contemplated product.

So my next wet dream is (how do you describe it??) a digital preamp or a “Swiss Army Knife”. This would have every common socket at the input, such as USB, coax, etc.
Maybe BitWordData (BWD) to hook up with a transport. It would have at least coax and maybe BWD out as well. It would be mandatory that we have De-Jitter/re-clocking as well.
It could also have slots for an optional Gadget and maybe for my other idea music processor as well. More on that in a future post.
We already have such a device with a reduced feature set on the market, Eitr. Think of it as an expanded, upgradable Eitr.

Then we have the new USB board, which we would roll our own implementation into a generic Microchip Pic Part. Up to now, the best choices are XMOS or C-Media (which we now use). The reason we want our own USB2 algorithm living in a microprocessor is that it greatly increases our options for instrumentation DAC selections, many of which require configuration to set them up as straight audio DACs. This gives rise to opportunities for even lower priced Multibit DACs. Also helpful as many “audio” multibit DACs have bend over and spread ‘em pricing. This is in process, but very buggy and needs a lot of work, again if we implement it at all. Call it pre-alpha.

The above is a description of much of the work here at Chateau Moffat that lies somewhere between mental masturbation and could be production. I could well have forgotten something. Feedback is encouraged. Thanks for all of your support!

 

[ThanatosVI]

Might be good for a separate thread on topic.
Here are a few notes I have collected over time...


2020 June 3
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wha...n-robert-hunter.784471/page-830#post-15653266
Work on transport continues. The transport is still in alpha stage, where it will remain until I have confidence in it USB driving a majority of the DACs out in the wild. Sounds amazing, though. The reason is that there are far more USB input chips (DAC side) in the wild than USB output chips which drive the Unison USB input section already in Schiit production. I have just built a gizmo which can test DACs to see if they are compatible. I shall see how many DACs I can find and test. More shall be revealed.


MM

2020 May 4
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/sch...bable-start-up.701900/page-3916#post-15592174

Hey guys,

Ask Mike for more details on the transport, but I think I'm safe in sharing that there's no BWD in it. Unison USB has surpassed that, no need for BWD anymore.

Don't expect the transport to be super-cheap, if that's what you're looking for, though we're not talking car-like prices (like other transports that use some of our mechanicals cost.)

Do expect it to be a game-changer in what you can expect from a transport.

And do expect it this year.

That's all for now. Best to bug Mike for more, though I wanted to squash some speculation before some very very very old ideas are taken as gospel.

Sorry to be scarce, we're very busy right now. I finished up the Utah stuff last week, and next week we may even have a new product for you. Lots of the stuff we've been doing around here have been ensuring we can continue to operate seamlessly in our new crisis culture (not just sales, but support and service as well). Not only have we done that, we are moving ahead on new products, a couple of which will be announced soon.

All the best,
Jason
...


Not a chance, it won't fit.

2019 Jan 5 - Baldr (Mike Moffat)
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wha...n-robert-hunter.784471/page-649#post-14700297

On Jason’s thread, I have been reading a steadily growing volume of often speculative posts re our upcoming transport. Please allow me to clear the air regarding the true current state of said product’s goals and development. As a preliminary, I have nothing bad to say with respect to any other transport makers. For someone such as Cambridge to say in business four or so times longer than we have says nothing quite as much as they certainly must be doing a lot of things right. More power to them.

The proposed Schiit transport will be the fourth or fifth transport I have been involved with over the last thirty or so years. It will be absolutely compatible with all future Schiit digital products. Of all things digital, I am certain about the following sentence. Paramount to optimum performance/listening are antiseptically clean clocks. We have many source devices such as ethernet to USB devices, transports, and sundry sother components. Well and good. What few or none consider is the fact that by far the most important location for clean clocks and data is right at the DAC chip itself – the ass end of the converter. (Destination clocks) The farther the clean clock goes back in the reproduction toward the source, the less it matters. Clean clocks still matter at the source, but all to frequently rapidly approach triviality. Destination clocks rule.

So at some point in our Schiit, newer products and upgrades for our higher end products will feature the best, rock solid clocks at our DACs where they kick the most ass. What does this have to do with a transport? Well, we can use an enhanced BWD connection controlling jitter all the way back to the transport even through an async USB connection as well as BWD.

Huh, USB connection??!!?? Yup, our transport will have a USB out. Such apostasy! Why? Well, I am finally good with USB now being as good as S/PDIF and AES on our new USB receiver. Better, even. Yup, really. This begs a USB out.

So what transport do we use? On our proto, we have a genero interface to try virtually any transport. Well, here is what we found out on differences between transport mechanisms: Using a clock close to the DAC, running it all the way back to a moderately de-jittered and cleaned up transport clocks and data, very little difference exists. To repeat: trivial, mouse nuts, vanishingly little differences. This makes transport mechanism selection point towards product life and reliability, as it should.

With traditional clocking from the source, the clock cleaning becomes much more important. The differences between different transport mechanisms significantly widen.

So, if destination clocks are so good, how come no one uses them?? Well, it requires a perfectly stable async BWD/USB connection back to the source. The key to public acceptance is a compatible system which will mate with ROW source clocked components (ROW – rest of the world.) There is also a phuc ton of engineering to do – A self engineered USB digital audio host and input, and/or a BWD with clock control line interface.

So the transport will include a USB host (audio output), and a BWD with destination clock features, in addition to AES and S/PDIF ROW features. We do have a proto running, that still has a few bugs to fix, mostly in our USB interface. What we have our attention on now is a stubborn bit selection 16/24/32. What a waste of time 32 audio bit is, kinda like a hub cap on a pizza, but people expect it, so we waste our time.

We then pick a transport mech and let Ivana finish with the control software. Sounds easy, huh? After we get our USB interface debugged and our Host (transport out running) we will be almost ready to start the rest of the transport. All efforts are on finishing the last of the USB. Then we will wait until Microsoft gets to the no new development point on W7 and we will be ready to release our new USB. Why? Because we do not have time to write a driver for an OS which will soon be on its way out (probably just when we finish). Another thing we have to get running is the USB with Linux so it will work with Linux powered Ethernet to USB devices on the market for the streamers. The point, there is still a lot to do.

On sounds like ass – it means I cannot get emotionally involved with the music. It seems there was some discussion on Jase’s thread about my true meaning of “sounds like ass”. If I don’t get PTSD listening to Steppenwolf’s Magic Carpet Ride or contemplate promised rewards listening to the end of Mahler’s Eighth, or feel like setting a fire at the end of Die Walkure, it sounds like ass.

On one reason why this Schiit takes so long, AKA brilliance: Jason and I were having a discussion of all good and bad re upgrades in the lab a few months or so ago. The two most popular were clients love them in favor, and clients whine and complain about our speed of delivery against. As this discussion reached an impasse, Alex walked by and tossed over his shoulder a comment: Why don’t you make all of the upgrades user interchangeable? Jason and I quietly started at each other like morons for a very pregnant long pause. At pause’s end he was long gone.

This is the real current state of the transport.

More soon on German Music.

////////////
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/wha...n-robert-hunter.784471/page-516#post-14230379

Product candidate number 1 is a CD transport. It has been built as an alpha. It works and sounds fine - I feel content with respect to its performance. It should be a $300 to $500 product. The dependencies of a workable production product are our ability to source a transport assembly in the thousands of units, and our ability to design packing and ship production quantities of fragile items, which we have not yet done. I am convinced that CDs (many/most of which can yet be easily found at a dollar and under) will become popular and enjoy a resurgence of popularity once most realize that streaming is seldom, if ever, the best possible digital source. The original Solti Ring cycle on CD (not the remaster) is by far and away the best sounding. (I know, Bosie, you hate the Solti Ring – the fact remains that is a sonic miracle and one of the two or three best recordings of the last century.) I maintain now is the time to acquire CDs before they suffer the price inflation of California coastal real estate or vinyl records.

2018-May 10
So it has been a bit of time since I have posted as I have been very distracted with the Sol, which now seems to be finally ready to order parts for production. Jason and I keep slowing each other down out of an abundance of caution with this, our first mechanical product. Done with that, at least the Engineering.

Next I will tease (Myself as well as the reader) with a variety of possible products that I am currently trying out. So for the moment allow me to emulate Jason in the sense that the following are products that are either ideas, built as prototypes, either plywood (alpha) or in chassis (beta). All of the caveats apply, which specifically are: They could never happen. They may happen in a very combined or modified form, or they may even be built as they are.

Product candidate number 1 is a CD transport. It has been built as an alpha. It works and sounds fine - I feel content with respect to its performance. It should be a $300 to $500 product. The dependencies of a workable production product are our ability to source a transport assembly in the thousands of units, and our ability to design packing and ship production quantities of fragile items, which we have not yet done. I am convinced that CDs (many/most of which can yet be easily found at a dollar and under) will become popular and enjoy a resurgence of popularity once most realize that streaming is seldom, if ever, the best possible digital source. The original Solti Ring cycle on CD (not the remaster) is by far and away the best sounding. (I know, Bosie, you hate the Solti Ring – the fact remains that is a sonic miracle and one of the two or three best recordings of the last century.) I maintain now is the time to acquire CDs before they suffer the price inflation of California coastal real estate or vinyl records.

The next candidate is a Floorsweep product which is partially built of recycled parts (think, for example, the recycled parts from old Yggy analog board). Now this would not be a current or old Yggy or Gungnir killer at all, but a scaled down product that would punch way above its price point. Much physically smaller, shorter warranty, ugly in a quaint sense. Jason suggested a hammertone finish, which I love. Gibson in the pre-WW2 days made Floorsweep banjos and mandolins, which are hugely expensive collector’s items today. One has been built, but may be integrated further before production. Or not, or may not be built at all – just a notion of how to utilize old parts that we hate to throw away.

Oh yeah, the Gadget. Already built as a digital beta product, in fact a production ready coax to coax product. The problem is how do we interface it? What inputs? USB? Coax? AES? TOS? What outputs? If we put something in production do people really want another box in the chain? Really? Probably won’t be built for that reason. Leads to the next contemplated product.

So my next wet dream is (how do you describe it??) a digital preamp or a “Swiss Army Knife”. This would have every common socket at the input, such as USB, coax, etc.
Maybe BitWordData (BWD) to hook up with a transport. It would have at least coax and maybe BWD out as well. It would be mandatory that we have De-Jitter/re-clocking as well.
It could also have slots for an optional Gadget and maybe for my other idea music processor as well. More on that in a future post.
We already have such a device with a reduced feature set on the market, Eitr. Think of it as an expanded, upgradable Eitr.

Then we have the new USB board, which we would roll our own implementation into a generic Microchip Pic Part. Up to now, the best choices are XMOS or C-Media (which we now use). The reason we want our own USB2 algorithm living in a microprocessor is that it greatly increases our options for instrumentation DAC selections, many of which require configuration to set them up as straight audio DACs. This gives rise to opportunities for even lower priced Multibit DACs. Also helpful as many “audio” multibit DACs have bend over and spread ‘em pricing. This is in process, but very buggy and needs a lot of work, again if we implement it at all. Call it pre-alpha.

The above is a description of much of the work here at Chateau Moffat that lies somewhere between mental masturbation and could be production. I could well have forgotten something. Feedback is encouraged. Thanks for all of your support!

Thx mate

 

[JonWW]

Thanks for the summary! One question though, would I2S connections potentially offer benefits over other digital connections?

 

[Derrick Swart]

Thanks for the summary! One question though, would I2S connections potentially offer benefits over other digital connections?

depends on the length of the connection but practically if you can keep it short and implement it well it shall sound awesome but you’ll spend more on cable i think

 

[FLTWS]

I believe Mike addressed 12S a while back and explained why he wasn't interested in it, maybe something to do with varying standards.

 

[JonWW]

I believe Mike addressed 12S a while back and explained why he wasn't interested in it, maybe something to do with varying standards.

That makes sense,especially if he is trying to figure how the new transport, etc will make nice with other manufacturers.

 

[earnmyturns]

Thanks for the summary! One question though, would I2S connections potentially offer benefits over other digital connections?

Very few DACs take I2S, and the ones that do have a bad habit of wanting different variants (including HDMI vs RJ-45). DACs that take I2S tend to be more expensive than Yggdrasil, so the market is really small. I've been there and I'll be there again soon, but then I can't go too long without a crazy NOS DAC to show me why I've kept my Yggdrasil longer than any other DAC

 

[tincanear]

Thanks for the summary! One question though, would I2S connections potentially offer benefits over other digital connections?

I2S is a 5V logic level based interface, and is ground referenced. OK for board-to-board interconnections (within the same device, with a common ground), but not so good for intercommunication between separate devices. USB uses differential signaling, so is better from an electrical signal level / noise standpoint.

 

[Cipriano]

Please release some gadgets for those of us who have been waiting! SPDIF in/out is perfectly fine - and I don't care about any other features. Been waiting like 2-3 years!

 

[bosiemoncrieff]

So regarding Mike's point about the Solti ring - it absolutely is the Zenith of Wagner recording, hands down, though I admit the Karajan ring is also quite luscious. My own copy of it is poor quality - ripped without proper attention to bit rate. I am attempting to correct that.

I look forward to purchasing the transport.

Assuming that I do buy the transport and - why not - the Gadget, when it is ready - what would sound better: Gugnir multi-bit with unison or Yggdrasil garage sale without unison?

Also - can I ask Schiit to upgrade the garage sale Yggdrasil to unison but not Analog 2 before they send it?

 

[ThanatosVI]

So regarding Mike's point about the Solti ring - it absolutely is the Zenith of Wagner recording, hands down, though I admit the Karajan ring is also quite luscious. My own copy of it is poor quality - ripped without proper attention to bit rate. I am attempting to correct that.

I look forward to purchasing the transport.

Assuming that I do buy the transport and - why not - the Gadget, when it is ready - what would sound better: Gugnir multi-bit with unison or Yggdrasil garage sale without unison?

Also - can I ask Schiit to upgrade the garage sale Yggdrasil to unison but not Analog 2 before they send it?

How do you rip your CDs with Proper attention to Bitrate?

I also Think you can schiit them a Mail regarding your unison USB upgrade, should be possible even tho I nicht be wrong.
Asking doesnt hurt tho

 

[US Blues]

I look forward to purchasing the transport.

Assuming that I do buy the transport and - why not - the Gadget, when it is ready - what would sound better: Gugnir multi-bit with unison or Yggdrasil garage sale without unison?

Also - can I ask Schiit to upgrade the garage sale Yggdrasil to unison but not Analog 2 before they send it?

That is a tough call. An Yggy 2 via SPDIF might top a Gungnir multi with Unison, yet the standard Yggy is not the same beast. Plus there is the possibility that you may have the rumored "A2" Gungnir, which further complicates the question.

The only solution is to get both, brew up some of your fine coffee, and a bunch of us will come over and do some listening tests with you!

 

[JohnnyCanuck]

That is a tough call. An Yggy 2 via SPDIF might top a Gungnir multi with Unison, yet the standard Yggy is not the same beast. Plus there is the possibility that you may have the rumored "A2" Gungnir, which further complicates the question.

The only solution is to get both, brew up some of your fine coffee, and a bunch of us will come over and do some listening tests with you!

You are absolutely correct. That is the only solution. Just let us know where and when.



JC

 

[bosiemoncrieff]

Both? I need to buy all four!! For science