[bigro]

  When building a music server you don't really care if new software will run on it.  Indeed, you really don't want anything on it other than the necessary server/playback software.  IMO anyway.
 
Here's some good software for you:  http://vortexbox.org/downloads

 
I Don't mean to turn this into Computer Thread. Just Pointing out that if you want to buy an older mac and keep the ease of use by using the apple OSX. Just making sure no one hits the wall of Apple wont update or support it so no one else will either. If Newer Media Players will not work, Newer Browsers will not work and Even Streaming service will not then why bother. If I had paid for this It would have been a waste of money. Sure I could Install Linux on it, You can Install linux on practically any x86 Machine but that defeats the whole Ron Popeil Set it and Forget it appeal of the mac that some may be looking for.

 

[Torq]

  I have a windows machine in the office because it runs all the programs I need, and with a Wyrd it sounds "fine".
 
At home I have a mac music server, and after back and forth listening I actually prefer the optical over usb.  Maybe I'm crazy or it's a total placebo, but I like what I hear over the optical so I'm sticking with it.

 
So far I've only found one case where anything sounds better over USB than over optical, regardless of the source.
 
That was when doing a little listening session with another head-fier (@Barra) to a Mojo fed by an AK100ii and was down to using a long, plastic, very nasty "Monster" optical cable as I'd accidentally left my good ones at my girlfriend's place and it was all I had on hand with a mini-Toslink connector on it.  In that case, the optical connection was very congested in the mid-range, and switching to an iPhone > CCK > standard USB cable cleaned everything right up.
 
Literally everything else I've heard that has had the option to use USB and optical, the optical has sounded better.

 

[artur9]

  When building a music server you don't really care if new software will run on it.  Indeed, you really don't want anything on it other than the necessary server/playback software.  IMO anyway.
 
Here's some good software for you:  http://vortexbox.org/downloads

Yeah, just load Debian, MPD  and upmpdcli on it and you are good to go.   I don't even know what version of MacOS my iBook PPC can run and it doesn't matter.

 

[bgentry]

I'm curious about these claims that Windows computers sound worse via USB than Mac or Linux systems. Are these results measurable in some way? Are they repeatable?

What do we think might be responsible for differences? I can think of only a few things:

1. Sample rate conversion, either by the Windows Mixer or by drivers.
2. Jitter.
3. I'm sure there are other things I'm not thinking of.

With a good player that bypasses the windows mixer you would expect the results to be the same.

Which brings up something that I see argued here constantly: Software players that sound different. There are claims all the time of certain players sounding better than others. Even though they are both supposed to be "bitperfect", which implies they are delivering the same bits to the DAC. Which would imply the same output, on the same hardware.

Anyway, I'm not trying to make a big deal out of this at all. I'm just curious about the details.

Brian.

 

[XenHeadFi]

If there is a difference, then it will most likely come from the quality of the drivers. Drivers for the audio chip, USB controller, etc. The hardware may be the same, but driver support will be the area with the most variation.

 

[gevorg]

I'm curious about these claims that Windows computers sound worse via USB than Mac or Linux systems.

They don't, its just plug & play usb audio works better on other OS, which gives less tech support hassle for manufacturers like Schiit.

 

[samgamegie]

I agree with pretty much all of what you said, but now the question I have for you Baldr is : Which music player do you use on your Mac ? iTunes ?
Me I use VOX and I find it great but it is not as complete as Foobar2000 for Windows in terms of functionnality...
 
Also do you think that using the optical output (TOSLINK) on a PC sounds as good as using a USB for audio on a Mac?

 

[GearMe]

I'm curious about these claims that Windows computers sound worse via USB than Mac or Linux systems..."bitperfect", which implies they are delivering the same bits to the DAC. Which would imply the same output, on the same hardware.

Anyway, I'm not trying to make a big deal out of this at all. I'm just curious about the details.

They don't, its just plug & play usb audio works better on other OS, which gives less tech support hassle for manufacturers like Schiit.

SO...if the quotes above are true, how can the quote below be true as well? Once the bitperfect data is transferred to the DAC, the sound should be totally dependent on the DAC/Amp/Headphones. Given Mike's expertise, I'd think there's got to be something to this...yet I've never experienced it.

...Alas, even after you have it running, it [Windows] has a much higher chance to sound like ass than either of the two other OSes. Remember that Windoze is an OS that runs on almost any PC hardware, from two layer fubar motherboards to well built hardware. Your performance will also vary according to all what else is running on the PC, much of which Windoze conceals from you. The advantage is that it is convenient and everywhere, just like McDonalds...

Recommending a dedicated music server to alleviate the "weird crashes" described by Mike or some other performance degradation makes sense.

Otherwise, it seems like it's just a way to immerse one's self in another 'cool' project and also bash Microsoft along the way. As an ex-IBMer, I get bashing Microsoft, but at this stage in life I have better things to spend time on like grandkids, golf, hike, bike, sleep, etc.

FWIW, we have several Windows PCs (7, 8.1, and 10) and have none of these issues -- on any of them.

Just upgraded my cheapo Toshiba laptop (AMD-A8, 4GB) to Windows 10 using Foobar 2000 and ALL my DACs work just fine (iFi iDac, Sony UDA1, Meridian Explorer, Schiit Modi, Fiio E07K, and Fiio E10).

BTW, they all worked fine with Windows 8.1 as well.

Another thought, most people I know outside of work aren't going to 'build' a linux server to do this -- either from scratch or by re-purposing an old PC...even though it's not that hard to do. So, really, their option is a Mac.

The more I think about adding a linux server, the more I'm really liking my LG V10 with ESS DAC/AMP. Listening to some 250 Ohm Beyers on it right now -- nice, portable and simple...stock player and no extra amp required! Gotta love Android.

 

[rtaylor76]

Recommending a dedicated music server to alleviate the "weird crashes" described by Mike or some other performance degradation makes sense.

Another thought, most people I know outside of work aren't going to 'build' a linux server to do this -- either from scratch or by re-purposing an old PC...even though it's not that hard to do. So, really, their option is a Mac.
 

 
Raspberry Pi 2 + Ubuntu? Possibly? I am not an Ubuntu buy or ever used a Raspberry. I just think it could be possible. 

 

[aamer23]

SO...if the quotes above are true, how can the quote below be true as well? Once the bitperfect data is transferred to the DAC, the sound should be totally dependent on the DAC/Amp/Headphones. Given Mike's expertise, I'd think there's got to be something to this...yet I've never experienced it.



Recommending a dedicated music server to alleviate the "weird crashes" described by Mike or some other performance degradation makes sense.

Otherwise, it seems like it's just a way to immerse one's self in another 'cool' project and also bash Microsoft along the way. As an ex-IBMer, I get bashing Microsoft, but at this stage in life I have better things to spend time on like grandkids, golf, hike, bike, sleep, etc.

FWIW, we have several Windows PCs (7, 8.1, and 10) and have none of these issues -- on any of them.

Just upgraded my cheapo Toshiba laptop (AMD-A8, 4GB) to Windows 10 using Foobar 2000 and ALL my DACs work just fine (iFi iDac, Sony UDA1, Meridian Explorer, Schiit Modi, Fiio E07K, and Fiio E10).

BTW, they all worked fine with Windows 8.1 as well.

Another thought, most people I know outside of work aren't going to 'build' a linux server to do this -- either from scratch or by re-purposing an old PC...even though it's not that hard to do. So, really, their option is a Mac.

The more I think about adding a linux server, the more I'm really liking my LG V10 with ESS DAC/AMP. Listening to some 250 Ohm Beyers on it right now -- nice, portable and simple...stock player and no extra amp required! Gotta love Android.

i have used windows 7, 8, 8.1, 10 and os 10 and linux briefly os 10 was the easiest to set up no driver issues and as far as SQ was concerned much of a muchness however 
with multibit upgrade will have to do SQ X-check across platforms again

 

[bigro]

When Going down the Linux path there are many options. That's The Double edged sword. Yeah I understand It's not rocket science that one old PC that your Linux distro of choice does not have drivers for all the hardware and the simplicity gets thrown out the window.  Changing Engine oil in your car is not rocket science but most people just take it somewhere and get it done because either they don't have the know how or have the time. The Notion That setting up and running a linux box is as easy as a Mac is not entirely correct. Most People Don't have the Know how or time to deal with linux.  So they Buy a Mac.
 
I can go either way but at the end of the day I want to listen to music. Give me the easiest path to the best sound and I am good to go.

 

[silvrr]

Raspberry Pi 2 + Ubuntu? Possibly? I am not an Ubuntu buy or ever used a Raspberry. I just think it could be possible. 

There are a number of dedicated distros for the Pi to play music. RuneAudio, Volumio, and Moode come to mind. I have had the best experience with RuneAudio and like being able to take my setup anywhere in the house (or anywhere with wifi for that matter) and have a high quality bit perfect music source.

 

[GearMe]

When Going down the Linux path there are many options. That's The Double edged sword. Yeah I understand It's not rocket science that one old PC that your Linux distro of choice does not have drivers for all the hardware and the simplicity gets thrown out the window.  Changing Engine oil in your car is not rocket science but most people just take it somewhere and get it done because either they don't have the know how or have the time. The Notion That setting up and running a linux box is as easy as a Mac is not entirely correct. Most People Don't have the Know how or time to deal with linux.  So they Buy a Mac.

I can go either way but at the end of the day I want to listen to music. Give me the easiest path to the best sound and I am good to go.

Yep!

 

[rtaylor76]

SO...if the quotes above are true, how can the quote below be true as well? Once the bitperfect data is transferred to the DAC, the sound should be totally dependent on the DAC/Amp/Headphones. Given Mike's expertise, I'd think there's got to be something to this...yet I've never experienced it.

 
I have been trying to wrap my head around this one too. I first though, "well...jitter", however, all the Schiit stuff is asyc, so it should not matter the incoming clock. 
 
I guess I do not have a good understanding how USB chip drivers work and how the USB chip drivers can affect UAC2.

 

[artur9]

 
@Baldr
 
 I'm curious as to what you think your current set of DACs (Bimby, Gumby, Yggy) are leaving on the table.  Not individually but as a family of DACs.

 
IOW, where do you see room for technological improvement?  More taps on your filter like Chord?  Less filtering the in the analog domain like Aqua?
 
 
@atomicbob has measurements which show little room for improvement, I guess.