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What a long, strange trip it's been -- (Robert Hunter)

Discussion in 'Mike Moffat (Baldr)' started by baldr, Oct 13, 2015.
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  1. astromo
    According to the dude himself:
    https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...t-bifrost-multibit-dac.2319/page-7#post-63742
    Disappointing to read that if it's true.

    So, now you've got this:
    https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...-bifrost-multibit-dac.2319/page-11#post-63908
    Read the whole thing. With such a warm welcome, it reads a bit like the nwavguy Asgard and the CA Yggdrasil deal all over again. However remember in those cases, it did result in technical improvement - so all to the good in the end. But with the path that all took, I can understand why Jason responded the way he did:
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
    FrivolsListener likes this.
  2. FrivolsListener
    It does. I think he may point out something, but it may also be fixed in current firmware, and we know nothing of his methodology. What we do know is that he comes off as a d***.
     
    sublime9 and US Blues like this.
  3. astromo
    I'd agree. I see no need to go for the throat from the get-go and then try and dress it up behind a thin front of focus on objective measurement. However that's the internet age and it's an unfortunate fact of life that Mike and Jason have dealt with before. I'd expect that they'd rather focus on adding value.
     
    FrivolsListener likes this.
  4. RCBinTN
    I think Mike is addressing glitches in the original firmware with the Yggy Analog #2 upgrade.
    He posted that information a while ago...and discussed in an open manner.
    He knew there were glitches...and now they're moving forward.

    Bless his soul - amazing transparency from Mike on DACs (and Jason on amps).

    Y'all gotta love that.
    And the opportunity they give us to openly love, hate, or offer suggestions on their blogs here on Head-Fi.
    Prosit,
    RCB
     
  5. Rtg97229
    Amir is the one who does not understand. When taking measurements it is very important to have the details of the test setup documented (pictures are very helpful for repeatability as well!) and to take measurements that are relevant to the usage of the product being measured.
     
  6. johnjen
    When the reviewer said that the set screw in back was loose, by 2 turns, that told me that someone had either not assembled it properly at Schiit HQ or someone else had been in the unit.
    And judging by the graphs I'd say that unit is defective/damaged, right out of the gate.

    I REALLY doubt Schiit (or any manufacturer) would release any product with measurements like that, well maybe a 'here today and gone tomorrow slap it together and ship it' outfit, but that isn't what Schiit is, by any measure.

    Something was definitely wrong and its hard to tell what is really going on from here.
    And until the owner of that unit sends it back for an eval we may never know.

    JJ
     
    omniweltall and RCBinTN like this.
  7. DoubleIPA
    Mike's original quote: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/what...#post-13778331

     
    kehorton, Dino2000 and RCBinTN like this.
  8. RCBinTN
    +1 Thanks for finding and posting that.
     
  9. DrTone
    He’s indicated that he has both versions of the Yggy measured already as well. I’m certain the show is going get even crazier, though the Stereophile measurements by JA might be contradicting in some ways.
     
  10. RCBinTN
    I just hope the measurements are posted on the Sound Science forum, unless Mike agrees to accept such drivel posted on this, his, blog.
     
    US Blues likes this.
  11. liamo
    I don’t give a click about him. No clicks to give.
     
  12. Don Hills
    Atomicbob got essentially the same results when he tested one (not the same unit of course).

    Amir's measurement setup has been well documented (and refined after hot debate).
    His measurements closely agreed with Atomicbob's. Maybe they're both "doing it wrong"? Measurements by more independent parties would be good.
    He has measured other DACs in the same price range with the same setup and shown excellent results.
    He says, and I agree, that the sort of defects shown are in the "unlikely to be audible" range.
    My own philosophy is that if I can't hear a difference between two similar price DACs, I'm going to go for the one that measures better, as an indication that it's better engineered. As someone pointed out, its like buying a house: Given a choice between a house competently designed and built versus one with a few building code defects that are hidden behind the paint, it's a no brainer. I'm not going to "try living in it and see if I like it."
     
  13. DoubleIPA
    Were they R2R ladder dacs in that price range? There should be sonic differences between a ladder dac and a delta sigma. Measurements are great, but don't always tell the whole story.

    I'm not discounting their measurements, I've seen another source that had similar results with the same DAC, so no argument, but there are other things to consider.
     
  14. AudioBear
    From the measurements I've seen just about all DACs should sound the same. By that I mean modern chips and filters virtually always have a greater dynamic range, lower jitter, and lower noise (including atomic bob spikes) than even the most acute hearing can hear differences between. But they don't! DACs don't all sound the same. There is a pretty big group of followers not just for Yggy but for several other DACs. Chord gets a lot of love in the same price range as do others. IMHO it's whatever floats your boat. Listen and find the one you like. I have no reason to doubt any of the several who have measured Yggy. It would be interesting to hear from Mike. It would be in particular very interesting to know if there's a reason why normal measurements produce an abnormal looking result. It wouldn't be the first time instruments have been fooled. On the other hand, our ears are very easy to fool. At the end of the day does what you don't hear matter? To me it doesn't.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
  15. Don Hills
    Why?
     
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