What a long, strange trip it's been -- (Robert Hunter)
Dec 15, 2017 at 11:45 AM Post #6,016 of 14,566
Yes smaller, faster, smarter.. Gen 6 usb should also ideally be able to make a killer martini.

Seriously though I do hope for the Gadget you consider doing a a few different options for input since it sits between the source and DAC. For those with say a CD player, in addition to a music server, it would be really nice not to have to fiddle behind things. For output at least for me it is less important.
 
Dec 15, 2017 at 12:26 PM Post #6,018 of 14,566
Loki is downstream of the DAC. Now if you're looking at a Gen 5 Gumby that has the Gadget pre-dac and Loki post-dac we can talk, but idk how much spare air and thermal capacity there is sitting around in Gumby at the moment...
 
Dec 15, 2017 at 12:42 PM Post #6,020 of 14,566
To me the function of Loki and The Gadget overlap...Eitr would just be in there for added/upgraded connectivity.
There would be a cost advantage, you only add one (but a very good one) powersuply, one housing and Jason would complain less about cluttered product ranges.
But hey...I think they should do whatever they want because they seem kinda good at it. It was just a wild idea that came out of my bottle.
 
Dec 15, 2017 at 12:52 PM Post #6,021 of 14,566
To me the function of Loki and The Gadget overlap....

Except that one is digital and the other is analog, one adjusts specific frequency bands through attenuation and the other uses super-sophisticated math and DSP to dynamically adjust music pitch without affecting anything else, which has never been accomplished before, yea they are functionally alike. :)
 
Dec 15, 2017 at 1:12 PM Post #6,022 of 14,566
Yes smaller, faster, smarter.. Gen 6 usb should also ideally be able to make a killer martini.
That's for USB gen 007.

Except that one is digital and the other is analog, one adjusts specific frequency bands through attenuation and the other uses super-sophisticated math and DSP to dynamically adjust music pitch without affecting anything else, which has never been accomplished before, yea they are functionally alike. :)

There's technically nothing preventing a digital out from one box going through a DAC and coming back into the same box for some analog processing.
I'd love preamps to work this way, allowing you to plug in a DAC of your choice. Tricky when you start thinking about multi channel, of course. Though the preamp could at least take care of decoding the proprietary formats and passing them on to the DAC(s?) as PCM.

Edit: copy protection requirements might prevent the latter, sadly.
 
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Dec 15, 2017 at 1:15 PM Post #6,023 of 14,566
There's technically nothing preventing a digital out from one box going through a DAC and coming back into the same box for some analog processing.
I'd love preamps to work this way, allowing you to plug in a DAC of your choice. Tricky when you start thinking about multi channel, of course. Though the preamp could at least take care of decoding the proprietary formats and passing them on to the DAC(s?) as PCM.
Nothing except Schiit's normal design philosophy, good engineering practices and logical industrial design. :wink:
 
Dec 15, 2017 at 3:22 PM Post #6,024 of 14,566
On the subject of product matrices, why do delta-sigma versions of Bifrost and Gungnir exist? Mimby outperforms 4490 every day of the week. Do sales volumes indicate that the models are worth keeping in the lineup? Is it just not that hard to keep the parts around? Also, what is the rationale behind Asgard in a world of Magni 3 and Jotunheim, which seem to offer much more value at their respective price points?
 
Dec 15, 2017 at 3:41 PM Post #6,025 of 14,566
The Asgard is the only Class A amp of the bunch.

Other than that it seems to have become the red headed step-child of the Schiit amp lineup...
 
Dec 15, 2017 at 3:49 PM Post #6,026 of 14,566
On product lines in general and The Gadget:

In the customer (and potential customer) service world, it is quite true that 3% of the clients or potential ones are 97% of the volume, action, or trouble according to your view. Since we now have over 20 products to build (23 as of Jason's count), feed with parts buys, and juggle with other priorities in assembly, the superficial answer is don't build so many products. For some percentage of the products, there are too many of them crammed into so little price bandwidth that I even get confused as to which DAC to give my nephew for Christmas. It is an easy trap to fall into, as new products come online, in a LINE of DACs, the space between them narrows. As long as there is demand for the old closely spaced product remains, the necessity for simplification remains in the background. We then have to look at which products are th e top 20% of trouble to make. Factors there not only include sales, but how hard the parts are to reliably schedule, which have the highest yields, and which confuse our clients the most. More on this in a bit.

Over the years, a strategem which began by accident has solidified this tendency. For example, I began the multibit DAC line with Yggdrasil, followed by the lesser priced Gumby, Bimby, and finally by MultiModi with a price drop of roughly half each step down. This resulted in some cannibalism of higher priced sales by lower priced units. At the same time the sigma delta DACs were built from the bottom up, with the resulting count of 6 DACs from $100 to $2300.

Of those 6 DACs, the top 4 are upgradable. That adds complexity, and makes more work for us. I will alway offer upgradable DACs because it is the best I can do to honor loyalty. There are those who believe that it is a ploy to extract more money and hose our clients forever as long as they remain using our products. I pay little attention to those as many of them believe any company/corporation exists solely to screw them; they will never be happy. There are those of use who use hobby to have pleasure. I am a people pleaser, believe it or not. Those are the people I work for. One of the ironies of being unemployable is the reality is that you always have to work for someone, in my case clients. The better I do at making what you want, the better I do myself, Yes, marketing exists – but if you believe it makes you want to buy one of my products you really do not want, then you are selling yourself really short. If I want to be a part of this market, I want to hang out with my peers – not a group of gullible dolts. That is why I chose it. (A huge plus: It is a phuc ton of fun.)

So What does this have to do with The Gadget? Something like this. It is another product for our mix. That means it should be fully baked. Yeah there are some DSP issues in the first gadget for 192KHz stuff. It is a very minor problem, and can always be redone later in a faster proc. The problem is that I came out with it at the same time as Eitr. Yeah, Gen V sound baby. In all of my wisdom, I wanted to bring it out at $200, which meant Magni/Modi chassis. To make the $200, with USB/Coax in (It was never intended to be the Coax only in out that I brought to RMAF, just what we had at the time.) it had to be Gen 3 USB in and was still really space constraining the Magni/Modi chassis. That's all fine except Gen 3 (or any non isolated USB) sounds like hemorrhoidal ass.

Then we have the fact that it is a single purpose component for $200. Worse, it is a single purpose component that no one understands. At the show and at the Schiitr people look at it and say "What is that?" The factual explanation is C=256. You can't even get to relative and absolute pitch before their eyes glaze over. A capella singers, adjusting flat to C=256, yada, yada. makes them comatose. Only if they are a musician who can actually read music and understand music theory do they understand. How do No one knows how to write a flyer for the Gadget. The reality is it is really simple.

The Flyer:

How do I use it, you ask? It is just like masturbation. You fool around with the knob until you get it. And when you get it, you GET it! There is only one knob, for God's sake.

But as a standalone product for $200 with yesterday's USB today that no one knows how to use – naah. Buried inside a DAC or a better EITR – Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

It is coming folks. Just a bit more down the road
 
Dec 15, 2017 at 4:12 PM Post #6,027 of 14,566
The Magni 3 started out as an Asgard 3, but yeah, it's not class A anymore. Still tempted to get an Asgard to try, but for me the Jotunheim clearly bested the Lyr 2 (with LISST and with three different pairs of tubes), so I'm wondering how good the cheaper Asgard 2 can really be.
 
Dec 15, 2017 at 4:22 PM Post #6,028 of 14,566
On the subject of product matrices, why do delta-sigma versions of Bifrost and Gungnir exist? Mimby outperforms 4490 every day of the week. Do sales volumes indicate that the models are worth keeping in the lineup? Is it just not that hard to keep the parts around? Also, what is the rationale behind Asgard in a world of Magni 3 and Jotunheim, which seem to offer much more value at their respective price points?

Regarding the DACs I agree. I think the lineup should be the Modis (although I'm not really sure they need all 3) and the other 3 multibits from there. That's it.

And at least 1 of those head amps should be able to go immediately, if not more. Who cares what amps the company started with, it's about where it (and the market) is going. Internal nostalgia should never come into business decisions IMO.
 
Dec 15, 2017 at 4:23 PM Post #6,029 of 14,566
To me the function of Loki and The Gadget overlap...Eitr would just be in there for added/upgraded connectivity.
There would be a cost advantage, you only add one (but a very good one) powersuply, one housing and Jason would complain less about cluttered product ranges.
But hey...I think they should do whatever they want because they seem kinda good at it. It was just a wild idea that came out of my bottle.
I think a bigger Loki, width of freya, with balanced connections would be really nice and if it included The Gadget functionality it would be even more appealing. I'm one of those that probably never get a chance to hear the gadget since I live in rural New Zealand, but would pony up for it if it had the eq functionality. If I didn't like or notice the effect I still have a great eq. Where it sits in the rack doesn't matter to me, that's why we have cables.
 
Dec 15, 2017 at 4:36 PM Post #6,030 of 14,566
Also, what is the rationale behind Asgard in a world of Magni 3 and Jotunheim, which seem to offer much more value at their respective price points?

The Asgard 2 is Class A and meets it's specs with zero global feedback. As an EE myself, I appreciate it for that fact alone.

Besides, it sounds great!

JC
 

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