What a long, strange trip it's been -- (Robert Hunter)
Feb 10, 2017 at 3:52 AM Post #1,906 of 14,566
My thoughts, conjecture and observations, so take them with boulder sized helping of salt… 
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Spinning CD's is or can provide a simpler path from source to the dac for sure and if simplicity were the 'key' to optimal SQ then I doubt AOIP would be as attractive as it is.
And I do adhere to the notion that a less complicated signal path 'should' make for 'Better' SQ.
 
And I also note that SPDIF being a (less expensive to implement) derivative of the AES standard, should also be superior to USB.
Indeed my own experiences confirm this, for me on my system.
Just as AES is 'Better' than its cousin once removed, SPDIF.
 
And given the steady increase in resolution of the gear we now have available to us all, it is all that much easier (in some cases) to hear differences between gear from yesteryear and today.
 
BUT…
 
We can only use the components that are designed and made available, and so some will push these boundaries just to see what happens.
Like better PSU's (LPS's), better s/w processes (mega burrito), better metallurgy (cables, connectors), better power (regenerators, dedicated branch circuits), and a host of other tweaks.
 
And when I find that the overall SQ takes a step up in ways that I define as 'Better', the rationalizations that I use(d) all come into question, again.
 
IOW, AOIP IS way more complicated than any other means of delivering the digital audio stream to the dac, no question about it.
And it still requires the SPDIF/AES added on top as well.
And these improvements also improve the gear from yesteryear (dacs like Theta, Sonic Frontiers, PWD's etc.) as well.
So when my ears are hearing my music as if anew, again, I do take notice and follow these new bread crumb trails to see where they might lead.
 
Which means my predilection to keep the path from the source to my ears as simple as possible will be scrutinized and explored to the degree that I am able.
 
Does this mean it is 'BETTER' for everyone, all the time, under any and every circumstance?
Of course not.
 
But when all of these tweaks, both major and minor, are allowed a full measure of examination and are determined to actually be 'Better', this causes my previous biases and assumptions to be brought up for re-evaluation, again.
 
IOW these many tweaks and experiments I have performed are continually making me question my assumptions and subsequently I become reacquainted with my biases as well.
And if the motivation to achieve SQ improvements weren't as compelling as it was and continues to become, well my life certainly would be less complicated for sure.
 
But then this is my HOBBY and applying means, methods and tech that others have explored, to my system, is one of my delights, as I figure it is for others as well.
 
And living on the bleeding edge does have its consequences for sure (sorry about your wallet…) and so I figure if there is a way to deliver 'Better', especially if it is more affordable etc., I'll be jumping down that rabbit hole right along with others, just because I/we can.
 
Interesting Times In Audio Indeed!
 
JJ
 
Feb 10, 2017 at 4:13 AM Post #1,907 of 14,566
  OK, OK..............  I am still working on USB interfaces – BUT - from time to time I must speak my conscience.
 
Thirty years ago we had people with car-priced audio system hardware (that they were always dissatisfied with) with less than 10 Musically insipid but Audiophile quality LPs (that they were too musically lame to dislike).
 
Today we have music hoarders with hundreds of thousands of hours of audio content stream-able or on a storage device/computer (but they always want more or more better). They couldn't listen to it all in ten lifetimes. They then phuc up all this music they do not have the time to hear by running it through the snot coated lens of USB. They do this for convenience and they want it right away.
 
They have no idea that having a physical CD, playing it back on a real transport coupled with a proper interface which was designed for audio is the only digital way to fly. Period. Try it if you already sank into the dreams of computer audio.
 
I have steadily improved this unfortunate interface. I do so only because of its ubiquity. This interface suffers from unfortunate layers (with different OSes (or not)) which add sonic vomit to the audio information. This is whether or not AOIP is involved (different cataract-plagued layers). I am not enternaining myself by subscribing to any notions that any new USB (or AOIP) interface will ever beat physical CDs. I have always postured that USB as a sellout for convenience.
 
Further, audio progressives pronounce CDs as digital audio media dead. I view this prevailing attitude as a fantastic opportunity to buy a ton of software on the cheap. That audio opinion leaders are almost always myopic.
 
Here's the rub - who wants to make a transport? They break, they are hard to source for long life products, and they involve major OEM components which severely mess with supply chains. So until I make a transport, it is really tough to make a claim to a solution of the USB/AOIP cesspool problem.
 
Meanwhile, the relative unavailability of modern transports should keep the price of digital media low for a while longer, until we hit the inevitable inflation and then bubble.
 
Don't get me wrong – I will still endeavor to improve interfaces to beat any in the USB/AOIP arena. It makes sense for those who demand convenience over quality. One can argue a case for syphilis cures as being less consuming of resources than sexual partner reeducation camps. That reeducation curriculum is CDs rule – period.

 
 
 
 

 
This is pretty much why I switched back to CDs and have been very happy to do so.  I was spending way way too much time and money trying to fix USB's inherent problems (which is never finished) rather than enjoying music.
 
Feb 10, 2017 at 6:19 AM Post #1,908 of 14,566
when something is a bother compared to the alternative, people usually don't find a reason to stick to it. it was true for vinyls, it is true for CD. no technical reason would make me give up on playlists and the comfort of having everything a finger away anywhere I am.
I bet most people who still favor CDs over online downloads do it because they like to own something tangible, not for some fancy technical reasons.
 
Feb 10, 2017 at 6:24 AM Post #1,909 of 14,566
For me it was because coax sounded far better than USB on the Mimby.  And instead of spending on a fancy USB to Coax converter I just dragged out my old CD player and went to town.  I then realized I was enjoying music far more than before because I was either too busy fiddling with various audio programs looking for the best sound, or settings within the program itself, or USB decrapifyers, or system optimization programs, etc, etc, becoming anal retentive and hyper aware of what might be wrong with the sound... CDs became the simple obvious choice for me.  Plug and play and sounds amazing.  Not that every DAC has inferior USB inputs over Coax, but in general I started seeing the black hole of USB and didn't want to bother anymore.
 
Feb 10, 2017 at 6:41 AM Post #1,910 of 14,566
  when something is a bother compared to the alternative, people usually don't find a reason to stick to it. it was true for vinyls, it is true for CD. no technical reason would make me give up on playlists and the comfort of having everything a finger away anywhere I am.
I bet most people who still favor CDs over online downloads do it because they like to own something tangible, not for some fancy technical reasons.


Convenience is a compelling argument.  That is of course a reason I keep working on USB.   It must be pointed out that USB is certainly less reliable, subject to dropouts, etc. in the context of audio interface protocols designed specifically for audio, such as AES/EBU and its consumer analogy S/PDIF.  It would seem to be natural to look askance at an interface that works well for printers.  For those who prefer to own, rather than stream their musical software, CDs are very deflated pricewise  for the moment.
 
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Feb 10, 2017 at 7:10 AM Post #1,912 of 14,566
For those who prefer to own, rather than stream their musical software, CDs are very deflated pricewise  for the moment.


Where are you seeing that? I listen to jazz, and unless you're buying classic compilations, and schiitily mastered blue notes, prices seem like they've always been. This at Amazon.

Perhaps you're saying that prices haven't risen with inflation?
 
Feb 10, 2017 at 7:20 AM Post #1,913 of 14,566
Where are you seeing that? I listen to jazz, and unless you're buying classic compilations, and schiitily mastered blue notes, prices seem like they've always been. This at Amazon.

Perhaps you're saying that prices haven't risen with inflation?


More with respect to used media prices.
 
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Feb 10, 2017 at 8:02 AM Post #1,914 of 14,566
Mike, about 3 years ago, a friend and I did a source shootout. I had made a HiFiBerry Digi and found it to be excellent when played with PiCore player and Vortexbox.

I took it over his place and played it through spdif through an Esoteric A-03 SACD player. Both of us thought that the same music played with the HiFiBerry and using the A-03 as a DAC sounded better than the disc played straight through the A-03.

You can take from this what you will.
 
Feb 10, 2017 at 10:42 AM Post #1,916 of 14,566
when something is a bother compared to the alternative, people usually don't find a reason to stick to it. it was true for vinyls, it is true for CD. no technical reason would make me give up on playlists and the comfort of having everything a finger away anywhere I am.
I bet most people who still favor CDs over online downloads do it because they like to own something tangible, not for some fancy technical reasons.


Some us old timers that like listening to music as Albums, like that fact that with CDs (and LPs) the song transition from one to the other can have no break or when the timing of the break between the movements is part of the music the timing is maintained. With digital down loads or rips this is lost.
 
Feb 10, 2017 at 12:37 PM Post #1,918 of 14,566
 
It was well over 40°C today.. 
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Expecting over 45°C tomorrow   
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Speaking as a Canadian, your words frighten and confuse me.
 
Feb 10, 2017 at 1:35 PM Post #1,919 of 14,566

45C is a typical summer day here in the Valley of the Sun.  Quite warm though for Sydney, I suspect.
 

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