[lootbag]

Quote:

b0ck3n, FWIW I have never been a huge fan of amplifying a DAP with the ES5 over just using the HP out. The advantages are not huge in my experience. Others certainly disagree.
 
Once you are using a separate DAC (iMod, CLAS etc.), then an amplifier is necessary.

I have to agree with cooperpwc on this one, I have used my ES5, Cowon J3 (HP out) + various amps combos (mainly an iBasso D6) and have not heard any improvement/change in sound.
J3 + ES5 sounds great to me, so don't see myself investing in more portable amps (expensiveee).
 
I am curious about the CLAS though, but it is an expensive investment for me.
I have only heard good things about it!

 

[Wildcard30]

I have to agree with cooperpwc on this one, I have used my ES5, Cowon J3 (HP out) + various amps combos (mainly an iBasso D6) and have not heard any improvement/change in sound.
J3 + ES5 sounds great to me, so don't see myself investing in more portable amps (expensiveee).
 
I am curious about the CLAS though, but it is an expensive investment for me.
I have only heard good things about it!

I have to agree with you the J3 + ES5 does not require an amp.

 

[pekingduck]

I see you have the JH10x3. Would you mind doing a little comparison between the ES5 and JH?

 
Quote:

I have to agree with you the J3 + ES5 does not require an amp.

 

 

[moseboy]

Would the J3's HP out ->ES5 beat the iPhone 4's HP out -> ES5?

 

[lootbag]

Quote:

Would the J3's HP out ->ES5 beat the iPhone 4's HP out -> ES5?

Well I have both and use both of them alone without amping.
Both have their unique qualities and both sound good to me.
But in the end, I prefer the J3 as my DAP, sounds quality is better imo.
Only use the iP4 as my DAP when I do not want more stuff in my pocket.

 

[Wildcard30]

Would the J3's HP out ->ES5 beat the iPhone 4's HP out -> ES5?

I prefer the J3 to the iPhone 4 as a DAP.

 

[b0ck3n]

Here are J3 and iPhone 4 measured together with TF10. Will fix links when I'm at a PC, for now it's copy/paste.

J3: http://www.markuskraus.com/RMAA/j3/data.htm
iPhone 4: http://www.markuskraus.com/RMAA/iPhone4/data.htm

 

[Stevtt]

So far so good. Locked right in.

 

[Anaxilus]

IMO, there is no point to using an amp with a DAP's HO.  The point of using an external amp is two fold:
 
One - Supply enough current or power as required by the phone in question due to a deficiency in the DAP.
Two - Remove an inferior amp section from the chain and/or provide a better stand alone DAC w/ a cleaner signal to a cleaner amp section. 
 
If you are just buying and plugging in amps w/ the expectation of better sound you are kind of missing the point.  People really need to understand what is going on from A > B > C.

 

[DaeO]

Quote:

IMO, there is no point to using an amp with a DAP's HO.  The point of using an external amp is two fold:
 
One - Supply enough current or power as required by the phone in question due to a deficiency in the DAP.
Two - Remove an inferior amp section from the chain and/or provide a better stand alone DAC w/ a cleaner signal to a cleaner amp section. 
 
If you are just buying and plugging in amps w/ the expectation of better sound you are kind of missing the point.  People really need to understand what is going on from A > B > C.

Great post, and great advice too!
 

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

IMO, there is no point to using an amp with a DAP's HO.  The point of using an external amp is two fold:
 
One - Supply enough current or power as required by the phone in question due to a deficiency in the DAP.
Two - Remove an inferior amp section from the chain and/or provide a better stand alone DAC w/ a cleaner signal to a cleaner amp section. 
 
If you are just buying and plugging in amps w/ the expectation of better sound you are kind of missing the point.  People really need to understand what is going on from A > B > C.

Actually unloading a marginal amp circuit with the high input impedance of an external amp will reduce distortion by relieving the hp out of having to supply as much current.

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

Actually unloading a marginal amp circuit with the high input impedance of an external amp will reduce distortion by relieving the hp out of having to supply as much current.

Ok, so make that 3 reasons!  Had no idea.  But you still have to deal w/ that marginal amp circuit right?  You can't bypass it just by seeting your Clip+ to lowest gain right?  You can reduce the effect but not remove it per se.
 

 

[maverickronin]

Quote:

Ok, so make that 3 reasons!  Had no idea.  But you still have to deal w/ that marginal amp circuit right?  You can't bypass it just by seeting your Clip+ to lowest gain right?  You can reduce the effect but not remove it per se.

 
It would be better to completely bypass as many gain stages as possible with a line out if your player has it, but if you can't you may get some noticeable improvement by adding a good amp in between.  Its not hard for a stand alone amp to do a lot better than what's built in to many DAPs and its intrinsic distortion plus the distortion of the unloaded hp out can often be less than the distortion of just the hp out on its own when challenged with a low Z load.
 
This sort of thing can be measured, but its also important to keep in mind how much of it is audible.  With an efficient IEM it may not be noticeable at all unless the HP out is pathetically bad, but if it has to push more current into an inefficient and low Z design it may be noticeable even from a good DAP.
 
There are a few other reasons to use a portable amp without a line out as well.  It can correct for other impedance issues like a bass roll-off with low Z 'phones or high output impedance. Since I've never seen a DAP without a fatal flaw, it may be wise to pick one with issues you can fix with extra hardware rather than ones you can't fix at all like a crappy interface or EQ.  Its also useful if your amp has extra feature like crossfeed or tone controls.  My D2+ may have a better EQ than my XM6 but its a lot more convenient to just hit the bass boost button if some EDM or trance comes up on random play.

 

[qusp]

also it needs to be understood that turning the volume/gain down on the clip actually produces more distortion when amped by an external amp, not less. what you want is the least attenuation, so by turning it up as high as you can without clipping the amps input you will get the cleanest signal. this applies to both analogue and digital attenuators

 

[googleli]

If there is anything which holds me to declare it a clear winner over other IEMs, it is the forwardness of the vocal. Amped or not it sounds more like the vocal is all over in my brain and does not have a very clear focus at the center. I have used both the ALO SXC and the Twag v2 to try it out, and the result is not much different. The CLAS seems to tame it a bit but not to a very great extent. For some "backward" recordings which sound a bit timid on the 18 Pro, the Westone sounds very very good though. But for most audiophile recordings the ES5 is just a tad too forward for me sometimes. It doesn't affect me much though. I am now at Banyan Tree Phuket for vacation, looking at the vast ocean with my gf while I am listening to the ES5. Moving to the Paresa Resort 700 square meter (not square feet) villa tomorrow and looking forward to enjoy more good food, good wine, good spa and good music there for the rest of my holiday. I left my beloved SR009, LCD2 and UE18 Pro at home to give the ES5 a real chance to please me, and so far, I am happy.