[Joe-Siow]

Quote:

Actually it probably has something to do with the UM3X being single bore while ES3X is a dual bore design. The internal including the cross over are identical iirc.

Ah. Thanks for pointing it out.
Didn't know that the bore design plays such an important part.

 

[Anaxilus]

I think some are underestimating the significance of getting a proper fit and seal consistently impacting SQ.  We all know how changing tips impacts universals.  Customs alleviate a lot of 'issues' on all sides.  Its like having a proper foundation to build a house.

 

[Onza]

Quote:

Actually it probably has something to do with the UM3X being single bore while ES3X is a dual bore design. The internal including the cross over are identical iirc.

Reading up on bores in these forums shows that there isn't a consistent view as to whether multiple bores make a difference in comparison to single bores...

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

Reading up on bores in these forums shows that there isn't a consistent view as to whether multiple bores make a difference in comparison to single bores...

It depends on the design and tuning of each IEM in question.  I don't see how a conclusion could be drawn about single versus multiple when they are different phones in question.

 

[Wildcard30]

The only thing I remember reading a while ago in the Fisher thread was that someone had gotten their SE530 remolded but with dual bores instead of single and supposedly it helped with the bass.

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

The only thing I remember reading a while ago in the Fisher thread was that someone had gotten their SE530 remolded but with dual bores instead of single and supposedly it helped with the bass.

The problem w/ the remold is whether they know how the drivers were positioned relative to the original housing?  Also whether they just now get a better seal w/ the remold rather than the bore design.  Too many variables w/o a reference point or baseline. 

 

[MusicFirst]

Quote:

Consequently,
Why aren't there more 'neutral' universals?
Why aren't there more services that advertise as custom molding plus x driver for enhanced neutrality?

Because most IEMs are very dark and warm, with bloated bass like the SE535/500/530 and most Shures, Senns, etc. Look at the frequency response charts to see whether or not the cans actually TRY to be neutral. Here is an independent graph of the TF10 (which is very neutral except for a noticeable dip in the lower-mids, thus the recessed vocals noted by many listeners):
 

 
The ER-4 is similar but has noticeable bass roll-off to PERCEPTION (ears) and measurement.
 
Like everyone else has said though, since our ear canals are all different, and we perceive sounds differently, no two people will agree completely, but frequency response charts don't lie, nor are they subjective.

 

[MusicFirst]

I meant to say that the SE530's bass is "boosted," not "bloated."

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

The custom IEM designers will tell you the bore makes a difference - number, length and width.  They admit that dual bore in the ES3X is part of the reason why the ES3X sounds better than the UM3X.
 
At RMAF I spoke to Jerry Harvey about why the JH16Pro demo had better mids than my JH13Pro customs - he felt that a big part of it was the triple-bore in the JH16Pro vs my dual bore JH13Pro improves the effects of cancelation and reinforcement of various frequencies when the sound reaches the eardrum, and that they have more flexibility in tuning the IEM that way.  

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

The custom IEM designers will tell you the bore makes a difference - number, length and width.  They admit that dual bore in the ES3X is part of the reason why the ES3X sounds better than the UM3X.
 
At RMAF I spoke to Jerry Harvey about why the JH16Pro demo had better mids than my JH13Pro customs - he felt that a big part of it was the triple-bore in the JH16Pro vs my dual bore JH13Pro improves the effects of cancelation and reinforcement of various frequencies when the sound reaches the eardrum, and that they have more flexibility in tuning the IEM that way.  

Looks like we have an answer.  Thanks.

 

[daveDerek]

Quote:

Are high end customs really 'neutral'?

the UE 10 was always considered a very neutral device, and their new reference monitors ('capitol studios'), as per Jude, is a more refined device that's quite neutral. the former is, of course,  a Jerry Harvey design while the latter is not.

 
Quote:

Actually it probably has something to do with the UM3X being single bore while ES3X is a dual bore design. The internal including the cross over are identical iirc

 
is this actually confirmed by westone, or is this one of those things that gets repeated often enough to become 'fact'? (i'm not attacking you rawrster, i'm just inquiring.)


 
Quote:

The problem w/ the remold is whether they know how the drivers were positioned relative to the original housing?  Also whether they just now get a better seal w/ the remold rather than the bore design.  Too many variables w/o a reference point or baseline. 

 
Quote:

The custom IEM designers will tell you the bore makes a difference - number, length and width.  They admit that dual bore in the ES3X is part of the reason why the ES3X sounds better than the UM3X.
 
At RMAF I spoke to Jerry Harvey about why the JH16Pro demo had better mids than my JH13Pro customs - he felt that a big part of it was the triple-bore in the JH16Pro vs my dual bore JH13Pro improves the effects of cancelation and reinforcement of various frequencies when the sound reaches the eardrum, and that they have more flexibility in tuning the IEM that way.  

 
these posts seem to question the notion of taking drivers from other universals and sticking them in custom shells, as it would seem to change the sound.
when shure changed the 500/520 to the 535 did they change the drivers or just redo the housing (another variable here being the cable change), as they reportedly sound somewhat different.

 
 
Quote:

Because most IEMs are very dark and warm, with bloated bass like the SE535/500/530 and most Shures, Senns, etc. Look at the frequency response charts to see whether or not the cans actually TRY to be neutral. Here is an independent graph of the TF10 (which is very neutral except for a noticeable dip in the lower-mids, thus the recessed vocals noted by many listeners):
 

 
The ER-4 is similar but has noticeable bass roll-off to PERCEPTION (ears) and measurement.
 
Like everyone else has said though, since our ear canals are all different, and we perceive sounds differently, no two people will agree completely, but frequency response charts don't lie, nor are they subjective.

hmmm, that graph appears to show a minor dip in the upper bass->lower midrange but i don't see a big suck out nor u shaped curve that i often see mentioned on the boards.
 
the jh13s have a deliberated bump deep in the low bass region, but to most listeners they have an exceedingly well integrated and natural sound. this boost compensates for the sound being pumped directly near the eardrums and bypassing our bodily sensations of deep bass that have a big impact on our perception of the sound. of course they can only do this to a certain extent. go listen to real sounds with deep bass or those sounds reproduced by speakers that can move a lot of air and it comes off very differently.

 

[rawrster]

There have been people asking Westone in the past about the UM3X and ES3X. I can't give you any quotes since well..I don't want to search but I think recently someone asked Westone about it as they wanted to reshell a UM3X to sound similar to the ES3X and they gave a similar answer.

 

[daveDerek]

Larry, how close is the sound of the um3x to the es3x (sorry if you may have spoken to this in the past)?

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Larry, how close is the sound of the um3x to the es3x (sorry if you may have spoken to this in the past)?

UM3X are great, but not as transparent, airy and open as the ES3X. There is a resemblance, but the ES3X are a nice step up. The new ES5 take those improvements even farther, along with a more spacious soundstage and more speed and realism.

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

 
these posts seem to question the notion of taking drivers from other universals and sticking them in custom shells, as it would seem to change the sound.
when shure changed the 500/520 to the 535 did they change the drivers or just redo the housing (another variable here being the cable change), as they reportedly sound somewhat different.

From my understanding the 535 drivers are identical and the only substantial difference, other than the cable, is the positioning of the drivers.  Next would be the redesigned housing that allows better fit and insertion.