[Oomingmak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by charpi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just a quick question, which universal IEM does the sound signature of ES3X resemble? Since it has the same technology as the UM3X, is the sound signature the same? I'm asking this because I want to get a pair of customs and I can't audition customs, so I'm going to try out the universal IEMs which the customs sound like and get an idea of the sound signature before choosing which customs I want. Thanks guys

Why do people get customs when you can just get the UM56 and use it with various brands instead of paying for a custom fit that, should you need to upgrade to a new IEM, will need to be replaced with entirely new customs or regular ear tips? The UM56 seems more practical to me in the long run.

 

[NoValidTitle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by p0wderh0und23 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Were this impressions taken open jaw with a bite block in the entire time the material was setting up?

Negative, she had me open and close my mouth a bunch while they were setting. I did the same thing on my last set though. I'm not sure if it means anything but after they were fully set I moved my head all around and opened my mouth and such to see if the seal on the "set" molds would break and all was well. I doubt that means anything but thought I would mention it.

 

[Oomingmak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoValidTitle /img/forum/go_quote.gif Negative, she had me open and close my mouth a bunch while they were setting. I did the same thing on my last set though. I'm not sure if it means anything but after they were fully set I moved my head all around and opened my mouth and such to see if the seal on the "set" molds would break and all was well. I doubt that means anything but thought I would mention it.

What was wrong with the fit exactly?

 

[NoValidTitle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oomingmak /img/forum/go_quote.gif What was wrong with the fit exactly?

Here is how I described it to my audiologist, and she is sending this info along with my ES3X back to Westone. Also to your other question... The first time they went back it was after about a week. The monitors returned to me on May 19th and they just went back yesterday. In that time I easily put over 100 hours on them. They would have went back sooner but my audiologist was out on maternity leave. This is how I described my issues....


Right monitor: This is the monitor I've been having the most issues with from the start. I'm having isolation and seal issues with this monitor. They were sent back once for poor isolation and they seemed ok for about a week. Now they are back to the way they were before. Also I will lose the seal quite often. The seal will only stay if I keep my head pointing straight, any up/down side to side motions will break the seal causing a huge loss in frequency response. These are not drastic movements either, maybe a 40 degree or so head turn will break the seal. Putting a VERY light pressure from my finger tip on the monitor solves the isolation issue if that helps at all.

Left monitor: This seems to be the opposite of the right monitor. I never ever lose the seal, isolation on this side is wonderful. But after about only 30 minutes or so of usage my ear becomes sore. From other ES3X owners I've spoken to they have described that they don't notice they are even there or soemtimes forget they even have an IEM in. I've also tried extended listening periods(4+ hours in my ears) to see if it would just take adjustment to become used to the fit, this was not the case and I was still sore.

 

[Oomingmak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoValidTitle /img/forum/go_quote.gif Here is how I described it to my audiologist, and she is sending this info along with my ES3X back to Westone. Also to your other question... The first time they went back it was after about a week. The monitors returned to me on May 19th and they just went back yesterday. In that time I easily put over 100 hours on them. They would have went back sooner but my audiologist was out on maternity leave. This is how I described my issues.... Right monitor: This is the monitor I've been having the most issues with from the start. I'm having isolation and seal issues with this monitor. They were sent back once for poor isolation and they seemed ok for about a week. Now they are back to the way they were before. Also I will lose the seal quite often. The seal will only stay if I keep my head pointing straight, any up/down side to side motions will break the seal causing a huge loss in frequency response. These are not drastic movements either, maybe a 40 degree or so head turn will break the seal. Putting a VERY light pressure from my finger tip on the monitor solves the isolation issue if that helps at all. Left monitor: This seems to be the opposite of the right monitor. I never ever lose the seal, isolation on this side is wonderful. But after about only 30 minutes or so of usage my ear becomes sore. From other ES3X owners I've spoken to they have described that they don't notice they are even there or soemtimes forget they even have an IEM in. I've also tried extended listening periods(4+ hours in my ears) to see if it would just take adjustment to become used to the fit, this was not the case and I was still sore.

Oh a bad seal, yeah those need to go back. I thought maybe you were experiencing discomfort. It took mines maybe a week and a half to two weeks to really break in.

 

[charpi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oomingmak /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why do people get customs when you can just get the UM56 and use it with various brands instead of paying for a custom fit that, should you need to upgrade to a new IEM, will need to be replaced with entirely new customs or regular ear tips? The UM56 seems more practical to me in the long run.

Not for me to say because I obviously don't own customs. But I read here that customs allow the producers to place the drivers in an optimal positions based on one's ear canel, this, (or so I heard) greatly improves soundstage. As compared to universals with custom tips, probably the fit you get is going to be the same as customs, but the drivers are not specially "tuned" or "placed" for optimal sound because it is already in the universal housing.

 

[pila405]

Guys, how do you pull out your customs?

I twist it fronat and down while pulling it out by holding it from the upper side [upper concha] and the lower side [between the tragus and anti-tragus], and you guys?

 

[hockeyb213]

Quote:

Originally Posted by charpi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not for me to say because I obviously don't own customs. But I read here that customs allow the producers to place the drivers in an optimal positions based on one's ear canel, this, (or so I heard) greatly improves soundstage. As compared to universals with custom tips, probably the fit you get is going to be the same as customs, but the drivers are not specially "tuned" or "placed" for optimal sound because it is already in the universal housing.

Customs also allow for more to be squeezed into the casing which can lead lead to more/bigger driver or possibly a more complex crossover. Also the fit and seal is going to be the best out of anything available.

 

[tigon_ridge]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oomingmak /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why do people get customs when you can just get the UM56 and use it with various brands instead of paying for a custom fit that, should you need to upgrade to a new IEM, will need to be replaced with entirely new customs or regular ear tips? The UM56 seems more practical to me in the long run.

According to what PowderHound (who most of us know works with Westone), custom molding allows the drivers to be placed at optimal positions in the iem as charpi mentioned, but also allows a separate tube (only if an ear canal is large enough) for each driver.

I would also add a hypothesis of my own. I think custom molding allows sound to travel from the driver housings' exit to the nozzle much more smoothly. As far as I know, many universal monitors have a sharp angle formed by the direction of the nozzle and the drivers' exit direction. A smooth curve, rather than a sharper angular one, would allow sound to travel with less obstruction, therefore having less of an impact on the original sonic waves' integrity.

This next concept is probably already intuitive to most people. The custom "nozzle" (if you can call it a nozzle in a custom) is hard rather than softy like all universal tips. The softness of those tips absorb the energy from all sonic frequencies, further impacting the wave's form. Different tip material absorb more/less of different frequencies, creating a difference in perceived response between tips.

Another reason for better performance is that customs tend to come with superior cables. Cabling plays a critical role in maintaining signal integrity.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by charpi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just a quick question, which universal IEM does the sound signature of ES3X resemble? Since it has the same technology as the UM3X, is the sound signature the same? I'm asking this because I want to get a pair of customs and I can't audition customs, so I'm going to try out the universal IEMs which the customs sound like and get an idea of the sound signature before choosing which customs I want. Thanks guys

Until the UM3X, there was no universal that had a similar sound signature, but that would be the closest although the ES3X are still ahead in transparency, depth of bass, and immersion in the performance.

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/5761665-post39.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sinocelt Mh, interesting. And how do your UM3X with the UM56 customs tips sound compared to your ES3X? Quote: Originally Posted by HeadphoneAddict I used the demo UM3X at CanJam, as I don't have mine yet. The ES3X are more transparent, with deeper bass and bigger soundstage. Overall a bit more immersive in the performance and more "puts you right there in the venue" sounding. I've posted before that the UM3X fall between the W3 and ES3X. With the UM56 custom tips the W3's sound improved enough to have the UM3X stand closer to the W3 than the ES3X because the ES3X do such a fantastic job of simply disappearing and leaving only the music, sounding like the real instruments and performance. It's like the difference between a balanced HD600 and HD800. Both very good, but one stands above the rest.

 

[pila405]

Does any one knows with what should I clean my customs [liquid - not cloth/paper]?
I mean, if it realy get dirty. [Didn't happen yet, but just in case...]

 

[Oomingmak]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tigon_ridge /img/forum/go_quote.gif According to what PowderHound (who most of us know works with Westone), custom molding allows the drivers to be placed at optimal positions in the iem as charpi mentioned, but also allows a separate tube (only if an ear canal is large enough) for each driver. I would also add a hypothesis of my own. I think custom molding allows sound to travel from the driver housings' exit to the nozzle much more smoothly. As far as I know, many universal monitors have a sharp angle formed by the direction of the nozzle and the drivers' exit direction. A smooth curve, rather than a sharper angular one, would allow sound to travel with less obstruction, therefore having less of an impact on the original sonic waves' integrity. This next concept is probably already intuitive to most people. The custom "nozzle" (if you can call it a nozzle in a custom) is hard rather than softy like all universal tips. The softness of those tips absorb the energy from all sonic frequencies, further impacting the wave's form. Different tip material absorb more/less of different frequencies, creating a difference in perceived response between tips. Another reason for better performance is that customs tend to come with superior cables. Cabling plays a critical role in maintaining signal integrity.

I didn't know that, thanks for the info.

 

[music_4321]

Another one of those albums...

So, here we go again...and this time it's David Sylvian's Brilliant Trees (1984), and more specifically the exceptional song Nostalgia. Similar to what I previously noted before, this recording with other headphones/ IEM's sounded a bit muddy with the lows taking far too much space, sounding a bit congested, but with the ES3X's the low frequencies are brought to life and done justice. Mids are fantastic and not taken over by said low frequencies, specially the flugelhorn sounding quite haunting as well as Sylvian's unique vocal modulations. Percussion from start to finish here is wonderfully & delicately rendered. I would only seriously enjoy this particularly brilliant song with speakers but not so much with IEM's/ headphones until now, that is.

 

[pila405]

So...some more impressions...

IMHO the ES3X are just too bassy for classical music but perfectly balanced to any other genre. Which means I wouldn't recommend them to classical music listeners [and I am one of them]. I have to EQ with the Cowon D2 to hear the balance I like in classical music. The ES3X have, I would say, dark sound because of the bass which also makes it all sound duller and not brilliant with top clear crisp highs as it should be [Because the bass covers it, not because it doesn't exist]. It doesn't sound as open any airy as I want.

I guess that for classical music the UE-10 would be a better choice.

But for any genre, especially jazz/blues those little guys are just perfect! they bring the recording to perfection from any aspect. The sound is warm an full with great body and weight with very realistic and natural sound. Which makes it feel like a live performnce and not a recording, which, for me, feels like a great and much more achievment in any kind of earphone including full open headphones. I don't think there is any way to produce any better from the jazz recording with any other 'phone. Those things are also meant for pop/rock and rock. I don't listen to metal/trance and this genres, but I will give it a listen because I am curious to see what it can do with it.

So, classical music lovers, IMHO you should get brighter 'phone with less bass, which as I understood, should be the Ultimate Ears' UE-10.
And all other genres lovers, IMHO you realy should go for the ES3X! it will produce the best from your recordings and nothing less than perfection.

***All the things in this post written by me reflect mine, and only mine opinion.

 

[decay]

A combination of factors could be at work here,
1. You've only had it for 5 days, give your ear some more time to adjust
2. Your DAP (Cowon D2) "might" be the reason for an "excessive" bass for classical, try
it with a different DAP and see how it fares
3. Your unit is slightly faulty, either it's the impression, the seal (you didn't insert it right),
or the drivers themselves, if after a few weeks you still feel the bass cover the highs in
classical, check with Westone to see if you can send yours in for a check up.

Considering all those impressions about ES3X being "natural", it would be odd if you hear
a great deal (for a custom) of difference (bassy for classical) from everyone else. Of
course people hear differently, but that's what customs are all about, to adjust to an
individual's ear to minimize loss in SQ due to canal shape and size, and for the best
isolation and comfort.