[pila405]

Quote:

Originally Posted by decay /img/forum/go_quote.gif A combination of factors could be at work here, 1. You've only had it for 5 days, give your ear some more time to adjust 2. Your DAP (Cowon D2) "might" be the reason for an "excessive" bass for classical, try it with a different DAP and see how it fares 3. Your unit is slightly faulty, either it's the impression, the seal (you didn't insert it right), or the drivers themselves, if after a few weeks you still feel the bass cover the highs in classical, check with Westone to see if you can send yours in for a check up. Considering all those impressions about ES3X being "natural", it would be odd if you hear a great deal (for a custom) of difference (bassy for classical) from everyone else. Of course people hear differently, but that's what customs are all about, to adjust to an individual's ear to minimize loss in SQ due to canal shape and size, and for the best isolation and comfort.

I would like to answer:

1. It's right but also wrong...I should give it more [which ofcourse I will], but you don't need to get use to your 'phones, you need to know what your preferences and to try to get it with out getting use to anything.

2. I don't think the DAP is the probelm, but maybe. The Cowon D2 as I know is consdered as cold/analytic DAP.

3. My unit is perfect, the seal and fit couldn't be better. But maybe there is something with the drivers, I will check with Westone [Maybe p0wder is reading this post], but I still don't think there is any problem, it is just the sound signature.

Classical music requires diffrent sound signature than other genres IMO [less bass and more airy], and because of it it is almost impossible to have a 'phone with great performance in both fields. Ofcourse it is all IMO.

Now I am in dilemma, should I listen to EQ sound???

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pila405 /img/forum/go_quote.gif So...some more impressions... IMHO the ES3X are just too bassy for classical music but perfectly balanced to any other genre. Which means I wouldn't recommend them to classical music listeners [and I am one of them]. I have to EQ with the Cowon D2 to hear the balance I like in classical music. The ES3X have, I would say, dark sound because of the bass which also makes it all sound duller and not brilliant with top clear crisp highs as it should be [Because the bass covers it, not because it doesn't exist]. It doesn't sound as open any airy as I want. I guess that for classical music the UE-10 would be a better choice. But for any genre, especially jazz/blues those little guys are just perfect! they bring the recording to perfection from any aspect. The sound is warm an full with great body and weight with very realistic and natural sound. Which makes it feel like a live performnce and not a recording, which, for me, feels like a great and much more achievment in any kind of earphone including full open headphones. I don't think there is any way to produce any better from the jazz recording with any other 'phone. Those things are also meant for pop/rock and rock. I don't listen to metal/trance and this genres, but I will give it a listen because I am curious to see what it can do with it. So, classical music lovers, IMHO you should get brighter 'phone with less bass, which as I understood, should be the Ultimate Ears' UE-10. And all other genres lovers, IMHO you realy should go for the ES3X! it will produce the best from your recordings and nothing less than perfection. ***All the things in this post written by me reflect mine, and only mine opinion.

How do you know that isn't due to a combination of your amp or source? I can get big changes in sound by changing amps, although in my case I cannot make mine have too much bass unless I add it with EQ or bass boost..

 

[tigon_ridge]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pila405 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Now I am in dilemma, should I listen to EQ sound???

How exactly is it dilemna. Does the current EQ sound you hear from the es3x unsatisfactory, or fantastic, for classical music? Also, consider the possibility that the sound coming from the es3x with your ideal EQ setting might be preferable or equal to a UE 10 pro for classical (especially when you consider that the UE 10 pro costs more). In which case, it wouldn't be such a dilemma, right?

I sincerely hope you attain the best sound possible from those very expensive monitors.

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pila405 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Does any one knows with what should I clean my customs [liquid - not cloth/paper]? I mean, if it realy get dirty. [Didn't happen yet, but just in case...]

I seem to remember p0wderh0und menioned using the cloth that comes with your ES3X's and to now and then use a 'baby wipe' and NEVER to use anything that is alcohol based. I, myself, only use the cloth provided.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pila405 /img/forum/go_quote.gif So...some more impressions... IMHO the ES3X are just too bassy for classical music but perfectly balanced to any other genre. Which means I wouldn't recommend them to classical music listeners [and I am one of them]. I have to EQ with the Cowon D2 to hear the balance I like in classical music. The ES3X have, I would say, dark sound because of the bass which also makes it all sound duller and not brilliant with top clear crisp highs as it should be [Because the bass covers it, not because it doesn't exist]. It doesn't sound as open any airy as I want. I guess that for classical music the UE-10 would be a better choice. But for any genre, especially jazz/blues those little guys are just perfect! they bring the recording to perfection from any aspect. The sound is warm an full with great body and weight with very realistic and natural sound. Which makes it feel like a live performnce and not a recording, which, for me, feels like a great and much more achievment in any kind of earphone including full open headphones. I don't think there is any way to produce any better from the jazz recording with any other 'phone. Those things are also meant for pop/rock and rock. I don't listen to metal/trance and this genres, but I will give it a listen because I am curious to see what it can do with it. So, classical music lovers, IMHO you should get brighter 'phone with less bass, which as I understood, should be the Ultimate Ears' UE-10. And all other genres lovers, IMHO you realy should go for the ES3X! it will produce the best from your recordings and nothing less than perfection. ***All the things in this post written by me reflect mine, and only mine opinion.

Either our ES3X sets sound different, our sound reproduction preferences are different, or our sources (DAP's in this case) make a difference, or a combination of these factors. I find the ES3X reproduce classical music brilliantly. But with some recordings -- specially orchestral works -- delivery depends on the quality of the recording. Some of these recordings sound simply superb while others just don't, and the ones that don't, sound similarly dull & somewhat congested both on my (harman/kardon) home system or more so on other full-sized headphones or IEM's I've had.

On better recordings, on the other hand, I find the ES3X's faithfully deliver across the whole frequency range, and would certainly NOT say they overdo the low frequencies at the expense of the mid or high range. Probably some 80% of the classical music I listen to is chamber and piano. I'd say the ES3X's just present what is there in the recording.

 

[pila405]

Larry - I don't know if it is because of the source [Cowon D2], but I do have noticed in significant changes with diffrent sources/amps.

Tigon Ridge - If I EQ I get the balance I want, but every instrument by its own doesn't sound as refined and natural as without the EQ.

Music 4321 - I listen to all the kinds of classical [chamber, orchestra, solo and from all the ages/periods/eras [don't know which word I should put]. And I find it almost in all the recordings too dark and dull, only with EQ I give the recording more air.
Is there any chance that the Pico DAC and Amp will give better reprocudtion of the music in terms of balance in the frequency response?

The ES3X perform solos just perfect, only with orchestra I have this problem, and sometimes also with smaller groups as chamber [more from the baroque - less from the classical, but still].

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pila405 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Larry - I don't know if it is because of the source [Cowon D2], but I do have noticed in significant changes with diffrent sources/amps. Tigon Ridge - If I EQ I get the balance I want, but every instrument by its own doesn't sound as refined and natural as without the EQ. Music 4321 - I listen to all the kinds of classical [chamber, orchestra, solo and from all the ages/periods/eras [don't know which word I should put]. And I find it almost in all the recordings too dark and dull, only with EQ I give the recording more air. Is there any chance that the Pico DAC and Amp will give better reprocudtion of the music in terms of balance in the frequency response? The ES3X perform solos just perfect, only with orchestra I have this problem, and sometimes also with smaller groups as chamber [more from the baroque - less from the classical, but still].

Orchestral works is exactly where I have similar issues but, like I said, I have the same (or worse) problem when using other phones & sources.

As for the Pico DAC/amp HeadphoneAddict & Rdr. Seraphim will have to chime in on that one. Remember I had the RSA P-51 Mustang but sold it due to lack of SQ improvement (to these ears, at least) and so, I prefer to go unamped and use no EQ either.

 

[pila405]

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_4321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Orchestral works is exactly where I have similar issues but, like I said, I have the same (or worse) problem when using other phones & sources.

The fact that other 'phones have this problem doesn't solve it. The UE-10 from digihead's impressions seems to be better for classical music due to the more pronounced highs.

 

[pila405]

Here are some lame/home made/none pro pictures of my ES3X:

 

[music_4321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pila405 /img/forum/go_quote.gif The fact that other 'phones have this problem doesn't solve it. The UE-10 from digihead's impressions seems to be better for classical music due to the more pronounced highs.

Can't remember if digihead's into Classical music or not and I'm not trying to convince you here, but speaking from MY own experience and taste I feel that if what you say was true, specially when comparing to other music genres, then all genres to some extent would suffer from the same SQ issues.

I have quite a few Classical, Jazz, Rock, Pop, World & Folk recordings and some of them vary a great deal in recording quality - my point being that I honestly think the issues you mention are not exclusive to classical music.

As I type I'm listening to Sibelius' magnificent Violin Concerto in D Minor with Dong-Suk Kang on violin (Naxos 1995). I'd say this is quite a good recording, not exceptional but both the violin and orchestra sound very good and quite crisp and clear.

Bartok's opera Bluebeard's Castle conducted by Peter Eotvos with the Stuttgart Radio Symphony Orchestra (Hanssler 2003) is a great recording - you can hear absolutely everything clearly, all singing and instrumentation, and to me, at least, definitely no more high frequencies are required to make it sound this good.

By contrast, Beethoven's 1st movement --my favourite movement, BTW-- and the rest of his 9th Symphony with Karajan (Deutsche Grammophon 1984) doesn't sound as good as the above 2 recordings, and this contrast, unfortunately, is very noticeable, not subtle in the least, ie you don't need great ears to hear the difference. And the same movement and symphony but with Wilhelm Furtwangler --live in Bayreuth 1951-- (reissued by EMI 1998), though a fantastic performance AND great sounding for a mono recording (rivalling the Karajan CD in SQ), doesn't sound as good as the above 2 recordings either. BTW, if there was any more treble in the Furtwangler recording, I'd find it hard (read fatiguing) to listen to the entire symphony.

And the above I also experience with my harman/kardon (with fairly good 15-year old JBL speakers), so it's not just other headphones/IEM's as I already said earlier.

EDIT: As I was typing the above comments you were posting some photos - Very nice looking ES3X and nice quality pix as well.

 

[qusp]

Pila, sorry but I dont understand your angle hear. if an IEM/headphone/speaker/transducer has a natural and balanced sound quality and signature; it cannot be more balanced for one genre over another. its a contradiction in terms. either something is natural and balanced (and from all reports they are) or it isnt. I think its possible that you actually like a SQ that is unnaturally bright, so seems more detailed; thats OK and many prefer this sound for classical (ER4S for example), but its not natural. perhaps you should get some ER4S and get them put in custom shells. but of course you should give it more time, I know you think that you should be able to hear it straight away, but that is not always the case. if you are already used to another sound sig that is unnaturally bright and that sounds right to you, then something that is actually balanced and natural is likely to sound darker and warm in comparison. also, I think that you need to take a little step back, you have been building these up for months now and it would be a very difficult task for reality to reach the pedestal you have placed your expectations on.

 

[Sinocelt]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pila405 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Here are some lame/home made/none pro pictures of my ES3X:

Very nice -- IEM and the photos both. What's the name of this color? Smoke? Transparent black? Could we also get a picture of the ES3X as they sit in your ears?

 

[pila405]

qusp - I understand what you are saying, but I have heard many concerts and never noticed that the bass sometime doesn't let the theme/subject[?] to be clearly pronounced or that everything sounds dull.

I will give it more time and see, till than no talking

.

Sinocelt - Thank you. The colour's name is 'translucent black'. And I will try to take a picture when it sits in my ear.

 

[HeadphoneAddict]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pila405 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Larry - I don't know if it is because of the source [Cowon D2], but I do have noticed in significant changes with diffrent sources/amps. Tigon Ridge - If I EQ I get the balance I want, but every instrument by its own doesn't sound as refined and natural as without the EQ. Music 4321 - I listen to all the kinds of classical [chamber, orchestra, solo and from all the ages/periods/eras [don't know which word I should put]. And I find it almost in all the recordings too dark and dull, only with EQ I give the recording more air. Is there any chance that the Pico DAC and Amp will give better reprocudtion of the music in terms of balance in the frequency response? The ES3X perform solos just perfect, only with orchestra I have this problem, and sometimes also with smaller groups as chamber [more from the baroque - less from the classical, but still].

Based on what you are observing, the Pico DAC/amp off a nice computer (prefer Mac) with 320K or higher music files (prefer lossless) should give you what you are looking for.

 

[Rdr. Seraphim]

Quote:

Originally Posted by music_4321 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Orchestral works is exactly where I have similar issues but, like I said, I have the same (or worse) problem when using other phones & sources. As for the Pico DAC/amp HeadphoneAddict & Rdr. Seraphim will have to chime in on that one. Remember I had the RSA P-51 Mustang but sold it due to lack of SQ improvement (to these ears, at least) and so, I prefer to go unamped and use no EQ either.

I like the synergy of the ES3X with my Pico AMP/DAC. Which area or how much difference can be attributed to the amp vs. the DAC, I cannot say at this time. Significant differences in sound quality can result by substituting different amplifiers. For now, the Pico provides a wonderful synergy with the ES3X. I'm hoping to try another amp in conjunction with the Pico standalone DAC (maybe the new Pico Slim or an RSA variant).

Re the sparkle that some folks think is missing with the ES3X on orchestra, it's there. In fact, the ES3X is about as evenly balanced in the midrange as anything I have heard, regardless of price, big rig or headphone. For example, while some people listen for the upper regions of the violin, extension and air, they sometimes overlook the impact of the wood body of the instrument itself on its harmonic signature. These harmonic overtones, starting at the lowest fundamental, and extending throughout it's overall range, enable us to hear the differences between instruments. It was a revelation to me when I was finally able to distinguish different pianos in a recording, whether it be a Bösendorfer, Steinway, or Yamaha. (You don't need a high-end system to identify these differences, but it really helps

)

Does the ES3X have too much bass for classical? Nah, to me it's realistic. Again, if you are not used to hearing a "full range" music system, the ES3X may seem overly ripe in that region. Aside from the physical aplomb my friend's $100K+ system produces, the ES3X--to me--reproduce the low end with remarkable verisimilitude. Add the fact that you get 80% - 90% of the way there using whatever amp/DAC you already have, and you have the makings of a musical bargain!

I think Qusp is on to something (see post above). We tend to a attribute what we are accustomed to hearing as being "right" or "correct." We acclimate to a certain sound signature and that becomes our reference. It's natural to do, since it's the sound with which we are are most familiar. We even start comparing that sound to what we heard in the concert hall, which to me is a different type of comparison. There are just too many variables, including listener distance to the orchestra, the music hall, performance emphasis, etc., to make that direct comparison. There have been many attempts by audiophile recording labels to capture the conductors podium as the audiophile's reference. How many of us have had that privilege in real life? (Any real-life conductors in the Head-Fi audience?)

I sometimes go back to my Senn, Grado or Ety. The version of the Grado's I have hurt my ears with their upper midrange glare. Ouch! The Senn's present another variation on balance that to me is sometimes too soft, yet extended. They actually may be too warm sounding to me to be realistic, emphasizing the mid-bass. Finally, the ER4 is dry, lean, if not anemic. It takes everything the Pico can dish out to set them free.

 

[Rdr. Seraphim]

Nice pictures Pila! They be the best one's I've seen yet! What camera was used?